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Hand dug shallow well
Rollins
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 11:16:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 503
Hi Wazuans. I hope this thread belongs here but i stand to be collected. I have some boys hand digging for me a shallow well in shags. They are past 100 ft but have been encountering 'gas' challenge. Apparently there is a gas that seeps from the crust and it can be choking so digging is very slow. Anyone know ho the gas is dealt with. They have been using banana stalks but its not too much.
Where are the wizened ones to help out a brother!

Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
Rollins
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 11:26:53 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 503
Eeerm....watu wasaidie mimi. Hapana kusoma na kusangaa tuSad
Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
Kaigangio
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 12:07:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
hardwood
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 12:27:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Kaigangio wrote:
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.


The pump should blow fresh air in to displace the noxious gas.
Rollins
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 12:35:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 503
hardwood wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.


The pump should blow fresh air in to displace the noxious gas.



Now that sounds like an idea
Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
Kaigangio
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 1:24:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
Rollins wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.


The pump should blow fresh air in to displace the noxious gas.



Now that sounds like an idea

@hardwood...your arguement is fallacious...pumping in air into the hole will be a waste of time.
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
tycho
#7 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 2:27:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
You could work in shifts and recommend the workers take deep breaths and water when on break. Then cheer them on, give them energy and sense of purpose.
Swenani
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 2:31:50 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,236
Location: Vacuum
Buy them oxygen masks
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
kaka2za
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 3:03:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
Is 90ft really shallow? Seems too dangerous to me. Stop digging until you get expert opinion.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
majimaji
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 3:07:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162

It may require that you abandon the well as the identity of the gas is not know. For example, if the gas is bio in nature, then the gas could be a mix of methane and sulpfur dioxide. sulphur dioxide smells like rotten eggs.
ZZE123
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2015 4:11:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/21/2008
Posts: 2,490
Swenani wrote:
Buy them oxygen masks

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause
The man who marries a beautiful woman, and the farmer who grows corn by the roadside have the same problem
Rollins
#12 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 7:16:14 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 503
majimaji wrote:

It may require that you abandon the well as the identity of the gas is not know. For example, if the gas is bio in nature, then the gas could be a mix of methane and sulpfur dioxide. sulphur dioxide smells like rotten eggs.

I have already invested substantially in this project and also in dire need of water. This is the only viable source at the moment so i am not about to give up....
Will try the tycho idea and see where it gets me. The average depth of wells in that area ranges from 95-120 ft so its basically within grasp
Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
Speculz
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 8:05:31 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/6/2011
Posts: 391
Location: Nairobi
Rollins wrote:
majimaji wrote:

It may require that you abandon the well as the identity of the gas is not know. For example, if the gas is bio in nature, then the gas could be a mix of methane and sulpfur dioxide. sulphur dioxide smells like rotten eggs.

I have already invested substantially in this project and also in dire need of water. This is the only viable source at the moment so i am not about to give up....
Will try the tycho idea and see where it gets me. The average depth of wells in that area ranges from 95-120 ft so its basically within grasp


Identify the gas first , you may be courting disaster .... , you might have Hydrogen sulfide , and you may end up drinking hydrosulfuric acid , invest in litmus paper and do a litmus test.

fyi : Above gas is poisonous and corrosive oh plus explosive too.
"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Stephen Wright
wazuaguest
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 8:09:36 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/9/2012
Posts: 576
Even if you get to the water it might not help,it might be too salty
Africa belongs to Africans.
Njung'e
#15 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 9:03:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.


The pump should blow fresh air in to displace the noxious gas.


Seriously??Shame on you .Go back to your chem teacher and ask for a refund.smile . I would go with having the gas identified first especially for toxicity and combustibility.You see,it might take one strike on a rock and Ka-boom,explosion.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
dunkang
#16 Posted: : Thursday, September 10, 2015 9:38:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
That problem is very common with hand dug wells in my area too (Githunguri). Our well is 140ft (42m) deep and was done in the early 90s (~1993).

What they do is dig for a maximum fifteen minutes a day. They also leave the well open throughout and throw some leaves inside (I believe this has something to do with photosynthesis i.e. CO2 + Water (in the presence of light) = Oxygen + Glucose.

I just can't find a sustainable better way of doing this water mining in the rural areas. Options are;

i. Make the well very wide (5m diameter) - The project would be very costly

ii. Buy those scuba diver oxygen tanks for the diggers - Cost may go up. Also, you don't want to add a load to the person down there,

iii. Mechanize the process - Cost may be a problem. You would need a heavy bit (Tarimbo) been dropped down and lifted continuously. Just ensure that the tarimbo does not snap when someone is inside removing the broken rocks.

iv. Abandon the project and instal a water pump direct from the river. For sustainability, incorporate solar systems.

#Just_My_2_Cents
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

taka jua
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 1:31:29 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/23/2012
Posts: 32
Rollins wrote:
Hi Wazuans. I hope this thread belongs here but i stand to be collected. I have some boys hand digging for me a shallow well in shags. They are past 100 ft but have been encountering 'gas' challenge. Apparently there is a gas that seeps from the crust and it can be choking so digging is very slow. Anyone know ho the gas is dealt with. They have been using banana stalks but its not too much.
Where are the wizened ones to help out a brother!




Have the gas tested, maybe you have just stumbled upon a natural gas wellsmile
Kaigangio
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 2:10:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
Njung'e wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.


The pump should blow fresh air in to displace the noxious gas.


Seriously??Shame on you .Go back to your chem teacher and ask for a refund.smile . I would go with having the gas identified first especially for toxicity and combustibility.You see,it might take one strike on a rock and Ka-boom,explosion.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Ngai baba!! Guka!

You see at 100 feet below the surface the surrounding temperature in the hole is slightly higher (somewhere between 30 to 35 degrees centigrade. At this temperature and due to presence of wet soil the air inside that hole is pretty humid and this constitutes the water vapour gas.

The so called gas in those shallow wells is mostly carbon dioxide and water vapour/humidity. The combined density of the gas mixture is close to 1.3 kg/cu.m. The air at the surface has a density equal to 1.2kg/cu.m which explains why there is no conventional air circulation in the hole and the denser gas mixture still remains in the hole. So, pumping in air will not displace the denser mixture in the hole, but rather the other way round.

In Kenya, the various geological surveys that have been carried out that i am aware of have not confirmed any presence of mineral gases on the surface. Here, I say surface because 100ft compared to 21,000,000ft(distance to centre of earth) is negligible. Only areas around Longonot, Nakuru and Marigat where those gases (mostly hydrogen sulphide and traces of sulphur dioxide) are found in very small amounts at more than 4000ft below the surface.

Back to the hole...At 100ft (30 metres) below the surface you have added another column of 30m above the normal atmospheric pressure...This may affect your breathing by making it a little difficult for you to breathe out.

Hii mambo ingine ya sijui ya testing the gas ni pang'ngá tupu.

...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Njung'e
#19 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:22:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Kaigangio wrote:
[quote=Njung'e][quote=hardwood][quote=Kaigangio]


The so called gas in those shallow wells is mostly carbon dioxide and water vapour/humidity. The combined density of the gas mixture is close to 1.3 kg/cu.m. The air at the surface has a density equal to 1.2kg/cu.m which explains why there is no conventional air circulation in the hole and the denser gas mixture still remains in the hole. So, pumping in air will not displace the denser mixture in the hole, but rather the other way round.



Exactly! Same reason we all know why C02 doesn't leave an open bottle unless you invert it....Maybe we should be telling Rollins how to invert his wellsmile
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Lolest!
#20 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 7:40:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Kaigangio wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.


The pump should blow fresh air in to displace the noxious gas.


Seriously??Shame on you .Go back to your chem teacher and ask for a refund.smile . I would go with having the gas identified first especially for toxicity and combustibility.You see,it might take one strike on a rock and Ka-boom,explosion.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Ngai baba!! Guka!

You see at 100 feet below the surface the surrounding temperature in the hole is slightly higher (somewhere between 30 to 35 degrees centigrade. At this temperature and due to presence of wet soil the air inside that hole is pretty humid and this constitutes the water vapour gas.

The so called gas in those shallow wells is mostly carbon dioxide and water vapour/humidity. The combined density of the gas mixture is close to 1.3 kg/cu.m. The air at the surface has a density equal to 1.2kg/cu.m which explains why there is no conventional air circulation in the hole and the denser gas mixture still remains in the hole. So, pumping in air will not displace the denser mixture in the hole, but rather the other way round.

In Kenya, the various geological surveys that have been carried out that i am aware of have not confirmed any presence of mineral gases on the surface. Here, I say surface because 100ft compared to 21,000,000ft(distance to centre of earth) is negligible. Only areas around Longonot, Nakuru and Marigat where those gases (mostly hydrogen sulphide and traces of sulphur dioxide) are found in very small amounts at more than 4000ft below the surface.

Back to the hole...At 100ft (30 metres) below the surface you have added another column of 30m above the normal atmospheric pressure...This may affect your breathing by making it a little difficult for you to breathe out.

Hii mambo ingine ya sijui ya testing the gas ni pang'ngá tupu.


very clear.you took over from mukivaApplause Applause
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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