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Apostle James Maina Ng'ang'a, allegedly drunk and violent
Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,883
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Robinhood wrote:mawinder wrote:Robinhood wrote:Even if the pastor goes to jail, some form of restitution would go some way in making things easier for the family. I still root for the law to be followed though I imagine that it will be like the case of Old Mr Delamere. The family of Ole Sisina who was shot by Delamere is still living in penury while the killer served 8 months in prison. What justice is this? Nkt Seems you have little understanding of the law. The husband can go to court now even before the conclusion of the traffic case and sue Nganga for damages.He can still wait for the verdict, use the verdict if Nganga is found guilty as evidence in the civil suit and he will be paid.He does not need legal fees upfront as there are many ambulance chasers who can do the job for him and recover from the award.He only needs to choose a reputable one.Remember the Delamere case was a criminal one and not a traffic case which are 2 different cases!!!!!!!!!!! Mawinder my brother. You are the one whose understanding of things is clouded by bile. Take a pill chill buda! You pursue this thing legally and it is stalled in the courts for ages, then the fellow pours cash at every turn and buys off every witness he can find. You may end up with a few million shillings at the end of a donkey's years but after your kids have suffered like crap. Or finally the judge dismisses the case and laments the poor quality of investigations and disappearing witnesses and/or court files. Or some may be some insurer pays. Pata potea. it is ironical that you dismiss mawinder's position with lots of bile while it is your understanding of the situation which is based on bunge ya wananchi gossips. in short - mawinder is right and you are arguing from the wrong end of your anatomy.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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AlphDoti wrote:nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:mawinder wrote:nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:hapa niko na @murchr, yaani some are of the opinion that the family be paid - enyewe tuko hapa hapa na sio pale pale for a reason.  The case in in court so the outcome is not known, lakini taking a hypothetical scenario where someone kills my wife, I would never take cash from them as payment - wacha ikae, kwani hii pesa haiwezi tafutwa. I thought I was the only remaining man,kumbe we are two!!! @nakujua, I think that is to rigid stand. There are two ways out of the problem by law: 1. the law of equality: eye for an eye. The guy to face death sentence. 2. But if any remission is made by the family of the killed woman, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate family with handsome gratitude A rigid stand will not benefit the family. If he goes to jail, the family will feel satisfied, and nothing more. If he is made to pay blood money, then Ng'nga will feel the pinch and the family will get compensation and feel satisfied. So I would go for option (2). Well that's you, I am not claiming a higher standing but receiving cash from an individual who killed someone I love, for the death would feel weird to me - at the end of the day as I said pesa inaweza tafutwa, some things can not. so if an individual kills your wife and pays you for that, then they come back and kill your daughter and pays you for it - at whatw point does it stop, killers might have a tendency to repeat their actions. With Alphadoti's reasoning it is okay if my boys rape his mother and he is paid 2m for it. To me, punishment for rape is very clear: stoning the perpetrator to death if he is married, and 100 lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.As regards accidentally killing, its punishment is different. You see, the pastor may not have woken up that morning intending to kill anyone, but he was reckless in driving, and as a result he caused death, so he should be punished, and law provides the above options. NOTE: I'm not in any way suggesting the pastor be let free, no. He should face the law. You never fail to amaze me, so if one is not married the rape is less or something - you seriously think if a man is not married and they rape your daughter they should walk after one year Yes, when one is not married, the punishment is less as compared to a married man, which is treated like adultery since he had no excuse since he has a wife at home, so he is stoned to death. As for unmarried, remember it's difficult to prove rape. And please don't confuse pedophile and rape. Rape involves an adult woman, while pedophilia is for underage girl. So if woman is raped by unmarried man and proven (which is difficult coz the woman might have just raised the alarm because of a deal gone wrong), then the man is flogged 100 lashes. About walking away after one year, that one is yours. I didn't say anything about 1 year. Why am I even having this discussion, sasa rape only involves an adult woman, and its very hard for the same adult woman to prove because as you say women can not be trusted to tell when they are raped shock me some more, so in your man world what punishment is prescribed for pedophilia (as you define it). God forbid, but if an unmarried man broke into your house and raped your wife, you would be okay with 100 lashes and banishment for one year, just because the bugger is not married.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:mawinder wrote:nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:hapa niko na @murchr, yaani some are of the opinion that the family be paid - enyewe tuko hapa hapa na sio pale pale for a reason. The case in in court so the outcome is not known, lakini taking a hypothetical scenario where someone kills my wife, I would never take cash from them as payment - wacha ikae, kwani hii pesa haiwezi tafutwa. I thought I was the only remaining man,kumbe we are two!!! @nakujua, I think that is to rigid stand. There are two ways out of the problem by law: 1. the law of equality: eye for an eye. The guy to face death sentence. 2. But if any remission is made by the family of the killed woman, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate family with handsome gratitude A rigid stand will not benefit the family. If he goes to jail, the family will feel satisfied, and nothing more. If he is made to pay blood money, then Ng'nga will feel the pinch and the family will get compensation and feel satisfied. So I would go for option (2). Well that's you, I am not claiming a higher standing but receiving cash from an individual who killed someone I love, for the death would feel weird to me - at the end of the day as I said pesa inaweza tafutwa, some things can not. so if an individual kills your wife and pays you for that, then they come back and kill your daughter and pays you for it - at whatw point does it stop, killers might have a tendency to repeat their actions. With Alphadoti's reasoning it is okay if my boys rape his mother and he is paid 2m for it. To me, punishment for rape is very clear: stoning the perpetrator to death if he is married, and 100 lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.As regards accidentally killing, its punishment is different. You see, the pastor may not have woken up that morning intending to kill anyone, but he was reckless in driving, and as a result he caused death, so he should be punished, and law provides the above options. NOTE: I'm not in any way suggesting the pastor be let free, no. He should face the law. You never fail to amaze me, so if one is not married the rape is less or something - you seriously think if a man is not married and they rape your daughter they should walk after one year Yes, when one is not married, the punishment is less as compared to a married man, which is treated like adultery since he had no excuse since he has a wife at home, so he is stoned to death. As for unmarried, remember it's difficult to prove rape. And please don't confuse pedophile and rape. Rape involves an adult woman, while pedophilia is for underage girl. So if woman is raped by unmarried man and proven (which is difficult coz the woman might have just raised the alarm because of a deal gone wrong), then the man is flogged 100 lashes. About walking away after one year, that one is yours. I didn't say anything about 1 year. Why am I even having this discussion, sasa rape only involves an adult woman, and its very hard for the same adult woman to prove because as you say women can not be trusted to tell when they are raped shock me some more, so in your man world what punishment is prescribed for pedophilia (as you define it). God forbid, but if an unmarried man broke into your house and raped your wife, you would be okay with 100 lashes and banishment for one year, just because the bugger is not married. @nakujua, chill for a moment and stop being emotional  You ask me what about unmarried man who broke into my house and rape my wife (God forbid)? First, why would you want to administer 100 lashes to a corpse, because he would be dead if found guilty of burglary, whose punishment is execution. And execution means, dead. Secondly, if he is not dead by now (this option), then it means evidence showed him not guilty of break in. So your task now is to prove him guilty of rape. And I wonder how you would do that, when he didn't break in to start with? It only means he was invited in. Thirdly, if you couldn't prove him guilty of rape, then it means only one thing: the wife is adulterous. Do you get the drift now?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:mawinder wrote:nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:hapa niko na @murchr, yaani some are of the opinion that the family be paid - enyewe tuko hapa hapa na sio pale pale for a reason. The case in in court so the outcome is not known, lakini taking a hypothetical scenario where someone kills my wife, I would never take cash from them as payment - wacha ikae, kwani hii pesa haiwezi tafutwa. I thought I was the only remaining man,kumbe we are two!!! @nakujua, I think that is to rigid stand. There are two ways out of the problem by law: 1. the law of equality: eye for an eye. The guy to face death sentence. 2. But if any remission is made by the family of the killed woman, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate family with handsome gratitude A rigid stand will not benefit the family. If he goes to jail, the family will feel satisfied, and nothing more. If he is made to pay blood money, then Ng'nga will feel the pinch and the family will get compensation and feel satisfied. So I would go for option (2). Well that's you, I am not claiming a higher standing but receiving cash from an individual who killed someone I love, for the death would feel weird to me - at the end of the day as I said pesa inaweza tafutwa, some things can not. so if an individual kills your wife and pays you for that, then they come back and kill your daughter and pays you for it - at whatw point does it stop, killers might have a tendency to repeat their actions. With Alphadoti's reasoning it is okay if my boys rape his mother and he is paid 2m for it. To me, punishment for rape is very clear: stoning the perpetrator to death if he is married, and 100 lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.As regards accidentally killing, its punishment is different. You see, the pastor may not have woken up that morning intending to kill anyone, but he was reckless in driving, and as a result he caused death, so he should be punished, and law provides the above options. NOTE: I'm not in any way suggesting the pastor be let free, no. He should face the law. You never fail to amaze me, so if one is not married the rape is less or something - you seriously think if a man is not married and they rape your daughter they should walk after one year Yes, when one is not married, the punishment is less as compared to a married man, which is treated like adultery since he had no excuse since he has a wife at home, so he is stoned to death. As for unmarried, remember it's difficult to prove rape. And please don't confuse pedophile and rape. Rape involves an adult woman, while pedophilia is for underage girl. So if woman is raped by unmarried man and proven (which is difficult coz the woman might have just raised the alarm because of a deal gone wrong), then the man is flogged 100 lashes. About walking away after one year, that one is yours. I didn't say anything about 1 year. Why am I even having this discussion, sasa rape only involves an adult woman, and its very hard for the same adult woman to prove because as you say women can not be trusted to tell when they are raped shock me some more, so in your man world what punishment is prescribed for pedophilia (as you define it). God forbid, but if an unmarried man broke into your house and raped your wife, you would be okay with 100 lashes and banishment for one year, just because the bugger is not married. As regards pedophile. You know me @nakujua, if you've been reading my posts, I'm a strong advocate of security of the society, which to me is very important. I've always said that cases such theft, murder, adultery, fornication, rape, incest and pedophilia are very serious crimes. So for example pedophile should be executed. Why is that? So that we discourage murder, robbery, homosexuality, pedophile, rape etc in the society. But first, good morals should be encouraged, which is earning legally, marrying early, or marrying more than one wife (thanks to the current constitution which allows more, but for is up to 4 wives if necessary after meeting conditions). All these things should be there as options for people so that they don't commit sin. So beyond that now, any kind of illicit sex or rape or pedophile should be treated as a grave crime and the punishment should be very, very grave. So back to topic, as I mentioned before, the punishment for accidentally killing a person, is not same as murder, or rape, or burglary, or pedophile. I'm not saying Ng'ang'a did anything good, but it is obvious he didn't wake up in the morning planning to kill someone. But he was reckless, which the law is clear. But never, ever administer the law with anger and emotions 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:Robinhood wrote:mawinder wrote:Robinhood wrote:Even if the pastor goes to jail, some form of restitution would go some way in making things easier for the family. I still root for the law to be followed though I imagine that it will be like the case of Old Mr Delamere. The family of Ole Sisina who was shot by Delamere is still living in penury while the killer served 8 months in prison. What justice is this? Nkt Seems you have little understanding of the law. The husband can go to court now even before the conclusion of the traffic case and sue Nganga for damages.He can still wait for the verdict, use the verdict if Nganga is found guilty as evidence in the civil suit and he will be paid.He does not need legal fees upfront as there are many ambulance chasers who can do the job for him and recover from the award.He only needs to choose a reputable one.Remember the Delamere case was a criminal one and not a traffic case which are 2 different cases!!!!!!!!!!! Mawinder my brother. You are the one whose understanding of things is clouded by bile. Take a pill chill buda! You pursue this thing legally and it is stalled in the courts for ages, then the fellow pours cash at every turn and buys off every witness he can find. You may end up with a few million shillings at the end of a donkey's years but after your kids have suffered like crap. Or finally the judge dismisses the case and laments the poor quality of investigations and disappearing witnesses and/or court files. Or some may be some insurer pays. Pata potea. Looks like @mawinder has spent a considerable amount of time in the corridors of justice. Once the judge finds this criminal guilty, the victim(s) can file for restitution for injury caused and loss of a life (bread winner) and time lost out of work among other things. Does the judge have to find him guilty?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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AlphDoti wrote:As regards pedophile. You know me @nakujua, if you've been reading my posts, I'm a strong advocate of security of the society, which to me is very important. I've always said that cases such theft, murder, adultery, fornication, rape, incest and pedophilia are very serious crimes. So for example pedophile should be executed. Why is that? So that we discourage murder, robbery, homosexuality, pedophile, rape etc in the society. But first, good morals should be encouraged, which is earning legally, marrying early, or marrying more than one wife (thanks to the current constitution which allows more, but for is up to 4 wives if necessary after meeting conditions). All these things should be there as options for people so that they don't commit sin. So beyond that now, any kind of illicit sex or rape or pedophile should be treated as a grave crime and the punishment should be very, very grave. So back to topic, as I mentioned before, the punishment for accidentally killing a person, is not same as murder, or rape, or burglary, or pedophile. I'm not saying Ng'ang'a did anything good, but it is obvious he didn't wake up in the morning planning to kill someone. But he was reckless, which the law is clear. But never, ever administer the law with anger and emotions Hapo sawa @Alph I was a bit concerned, it was so unlike you. I mean those are serious crimes and should be accompanied by the most severe consequences. Accidents happen, lakini to be reckless on the road and have the guts to leave the scene is unacceptable. As for the current case lets see the outcome, lakini whoever was driving that car should face some serious punishment.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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nakujua wrote:AlphDoti wrote:As regards pedophile. You know me @nakujua, if you've been reading my posts, I'm a strong advocate of security of the society, which to me is very important. I've always said that cases such theft, murder, adultery, fornication, rape, incest and pedophilia are very serious crimes. So for example pedophile should be executed. Why is that? So that we discourage murder, robbery, homosexuality, pedophile, rape etc in the society. But first, good morals should be encouraged, which is earning legally, marrying early, or marrying more than one wife (thanks to the current constitution which allows more, but for is up to 4 wives if necessary after meeting conditions). All these things should be there as options for people so that they don't commit sin. So beyond that now, any kind of illicit sex or rape or pedophile should be treated as a grave crime and the punishment should be very, very grave. So back to topic, as I mentioned before, the punishment for accidentally killing a person, is not same as murder, or rape, or burglary, or pedophile. I'm not saying Ng'ang'a did anything good, but it is obvious he didn't wake up in the morning planning to kill someone. But he was reckless, which the law is clear. But never, ever administer the law with anger and emotions Hapo sawa @Alph I was a bit concerned, it was so unlike you. I mean those are serious crimes and should be accompanied by the most severe consequences. Accidents happen, lakini to be reckless on the road and have the guts to leave the scene is unacceptable. As for the current case lets see the outcome, lakini whoever was driving that car should face some serious punishment. tycho wrote:Does the judge have to find him guilty? @nakujua, @tycho, it is true our judiciary system has improved. However, some elements of law enforcement still let us down: the police. They are corrupt, they are poor in collecting evidence, they misuse authority, they accept money to tamper with little evidence, psychological and physical abuse etc. Because of this, I have no confidence with our justice system!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@AlphDoti, it's true that those who use and implement the law may be perverted, but that's no reason to despair on the rule of law.
In my opinion, the law is perverted because the masses have no easy access to it. It therefore becomes easy for the rich to buy justice. Because the masses are miseducated and impoverished, a rich man may trample on the rights of the poor, and the poor man will not know it.
I can imagine the witness to this case and the aggrieved party trying to sieve through these posts, wouldn't he be probably overwhelmed with confusion? Yet we are his comrades and are supposed to help him out.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 2,306
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mkenyan wrote:Robinhood wrote:mawinder wrote:Robinhood wrote:Even if the pastor goes to jail, some form of restitution would go some way in making things easier for the family. I still root for the law to be followed though I imagine that it will be like the case of Old Mr Delamere. The family of Ole Sisina who was shot by Delamere is still living in penury while the killer served 8 months in prison. What justice is this? Nkt Seems you have little understanding of the law. The husband can go to court now even before the conclusion of the traffic case and sue Nganga for damages.He can still wait for the verdict, use the verdict if Nganga is found guilty as evidence in the civil suit and he will be paid.He does not need legal fees upfront as there are many ambulance chasers who can do the job for him and recover from the award.He only needs to choose a reputable one.Remember the Delamere case was a criminal one and not a traffic case which are 2 different cases!!!!!!!!!!! Mawinder my brother. You are the one whose understanding of things is clouded by bile. Take a pill chill buda! You pursue this thing legally and it is stalled in the courts for ages, then the fellow pours cash at every turn and buys off every witness he can find. You may end up with a few million shillings at the end of a donkey's years but after your kids have suffered like crap. Or finally the judge dismisses the case and laments the poor quality of investigations and disappearing witnesses and/or court files. Or some may be some insurer pays. Pata potea. it is ironical that you dismiss mawinder's position with lots of bile while it is your understanding of the situation which is based on bunge ya wananchi gossips. in short - mawinder is right and you are arguing from the wrong end of your anatomy. Mkenya, I admire your confidence in the Kenyan justice system but I think it is woefully misplaced. Let's watch this space. The pastor will just not sit and wait to be jailed, he will hustle like a nonsense to avoid the rap. In +254, this type of hustle overwhelmingly favours the rich, the connected, the mighty. Anyone ignoring this reality is just playing the ostrich game... Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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Quote:enyewe if Ombeta (Cliff)ameshindwa then huyu hasaidiki!!πππ Quote:If Cliff Ombeta, who always ably represents the wretched of the earth, withdraws as your counsel, you must be proper effed. /and of ndeffo\ "ππ‘KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder ππ " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Siringi wrote:Quote:enyewe if Ombeta (Cliff)ameshindwa then huyu hasaidiki!!πππ Quote:If Cliff Ombeta, who always ably represents the wretched of the earth, withdraws as your counsel, you must be proper effed. /and of ndeffo\ Clearly.....  "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/9/2009 Posts: 2,003
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[quote=murchr][quote=Siringi][quote]enyewe if Ombeta (Cliff)ameshindwa then huyu hasaidiki!!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/9/2009 Posts: 2,003
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[quote=murchr][quote=Siringi][quote]enyewe if Ombeta (Cliff)ameshindwa then huyu hasaidiki!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,702
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murchr wrote:Siringi wrote:Quote:enyewe if Ombeta (Cliff)ameshindwa then huyu hasaidiki!!πππ Quote:If Cliff Ombeta, who always ably represents the wretched of the earth, withdraws as your counsel, you must be proper effed. /and of ndeffo\ Clearly..... Ombeta is used to receiving monetary instructions from such people as the Akasha's so when the pastor told him "Nitetee tu na Mungu atakubariki" he could not understand. We now know that the pastor's pockets are not very deep, no wonder he was driving a mtumba Range Rover. Huyu akicheza atafungwa jela.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,702
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I guess Ombeta has been conned by the pastor because he now knows he cannot be found guilty. Magistrate declines to issue order compelling him to give blood for testing so it now falls on eye witnesses to remember seeing him at the accident site. He knows eye witnesses watapewa tu Ngiri mbili mbili wapate shughuli zingine on the day the case comes up for hearing and then case is over. So pastor stops picking Ombeta's calls because he has no need for him anymore.
Anyway malipo ni hapa hapa duniani. Personally I would not mess up with a man who represents the Akasha's on the other hand I would not mess up with a populist former gangster pastor with fanatical followers either.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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And yet he is claiming that he withdrew due to fear for his life after his mercedes was stoned by an angry mob hapo limuru law courts, and that the pastor was "unable to guarantee his security". Quote:Mr Ombeta on Wednesday told a Limuru court that he had bowed out of the case after he was attacked by people unhappy with Pastor Ng'ang'a. The lawyer, who has fought murder and drug cases, said a crowd that had gathered at the court entrance jeered him and damaged his Mercedes Benz car. βContinuing with this case is not safe for me. They (public) have marked my car and today I had to leave it somewhere and use someone else's just to be safe. I cannot continue this way,β he told the court. βEven if there are good incentives (pay) that you can repair your car when damaged, things become different when the accused is less concerned about your safety. I raised the matter (with him) and all he asked is what I expected him to do,β he told journalists outside the court. http://mobile.nation.co..../-/jf54v1z/-/index.html
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Criminal lawyer Cliff Ombeta has sued Pastor James Ng'ang'a over unpaid Sh5.1 million legal fees, saying the arrears must be cleared. Ombeta, who represented Ng'ang'a following a fatal accident allegedly involving his Range Rover, filed the suit at the Milimani law courts on September 22. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...es#sthash.jkVqd9F2.dpuf
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=180&v=E1nUDij2H2U[/youtube] "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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murchr wrote:Criminal lawyer Cliff Ombeta has sued Pastor James Ng'ang'a over unpaid Sh5.1 million legal fees, saying the arrears must be cleared. Ombeta, who represented Ng'ang'a following a fatal accident allegedly involving his Range Rover, filed the suit at the Milimani law courts on September 22. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...es#sthash.jkVqd9F2.dpuf
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=180&v=E1nUDij2H2U[/youtube] So the total bill was upwards of 10m and 5.1m balance is outstanding. And the lawyer quit midway. Kwani how much money do these lawyers make? It's no wonder the pastor fired him.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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hardwood wrote:murchr wrote:Criminal lawyer Cliff Ombeta has sued Pastor James Ng'ang'a over unpaid Sh5.1 million legal fees, saying the arrears must be cleared. Ombeta, who represented Ng'ang'a following a fatal accident allegedly involving his Range Rover, filed the suit at the Milimani law courts on September 22. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...es#sthash.jkVqd9F2.dpuf
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=180&v=E1nUDij2H2U[/youtube] So the total bill was upwards of 10m and 5.1m balance is outstanding. And the lawyer quit midway. Kwani how much money do these lawyers make? It's no wonder the pastor fired him. Hii inaitwa Pata potea. Hataipata. Case has only been mentioned once and already bill is over 5m? Hii ni wizi he will sort the witnesses. i.am.back!!!!
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Apostle James Maina Ng'ang'a, allegedly drunk and violent
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