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Christianity Versus Education
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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tycho wrote:¿ wrote:tycho wrote:This reminds me of a school of thought that is easy to forget - Pragmatism.
Someone help me, what problem(s) being faced now in Kenya can be best solved by atheism or theism, and how? Define problem. I'll define 'problem' as a state of being or affairs that are unpleasant or unwanted, Some problems do not need an intervention If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:tycho wrote:¿ wrote:tycho wrote:This reminds me of a school of thought that is easy to forget - Pragmatism.
Someone help me, what problem(s) being faced now in Kenya can be best solved by atheism or theism, and how? Define problem. I'll define 'problem' as a state of being or affairs that are unpleasant or unwanted, Some problems do not need an intervention And some do require intervention, no?
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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tycho wrote:¿ wrote:tycho wrote:¿ wrote:tycho wrote:This reminds me of a school of thought that is easy to forget - Pragmatism.
Someone help me, what problem(s) being faced now in Kenya can be best solved by atheism or theism, and how? Define problem. I'll define 'problem' as a state of being or affairs that are unpleasant or unwanted, and that needs some kind of action to arrive at a wanted or pleasant state. By defining the unpleasant or unwanted state of being or affairs and where applicable,how to arrive at the wanted or pleasant state. ?? So there are no problems defined as yet? One man's meat is another man's poison.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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tycho wrote:Swenani wrote:tycho wrote:¿ wrote:tycho wrote:This reminds me of a school of thought that is easy to forget - Pragmatism.
Someone help me, what problem(s) being faced now in Kenya can be best solved by atheism or theism, and how? Define problem. I'll define 'problem' as a state of being or affairs that are unpleasant or unwanted, Some problems do not need an intervention And some do require intervention, no? Why?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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@Peterreborn. Your questions are very real and are actually factual. However, high intelligence does not lead to low religious leaning, its more of a lack of empathy. The poor are certainly more religious, same applies to women and the elderly. The least religious in society tend to be those who are the strongest and who happen to most lack empathy. PS. The level of discussion in this thread is very high IQ. So I leave my rudimentary 2 cents there. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:@Peterreborn.
Your questions are very real and are actually factual. However, high intelligence does not lead to low religious leaning, its more of a lack of empathy.
The poor are certainly more religious, same applies to women and the elderly. The least religious in society tend to be those who are the strongest and who happen to most lack empathy.
PS. The level of discussion in this thread is very high IQ. So I leave my rudimentary 2 cents there. Obi. I usually agree with you on most about everything you say because i know that you get it, but i have to disagree with your assertion that less religious people are less empathetic. In fact, i could argue that atheists might actually be more empathetic and carry themselves with more integrity than some pastors who are getting drunk, driving recklessly and killing people on the road only to try and weasel their way out of their responsibility. If that were me, i would man up and face my consequences as a man, because i have empathy and i take responsibility for my actions, good or bad. I happen to have a lot of atheist friends in the US who are very philanthropic. Most are highly educated and well off financially, and they are the most caring people in this world. Whenever something bad happens in Kenya, they are the first ones to call and ask how and if they can help. Some visit Africa every year and really try to uplift people' s standards of living. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, possibly the richest men in the world are both atheists and both happen to be the biggest philanthropists around. The thing about atheists is that we understand that we might be more privileged than most, but in my experience with my atheist friends, i find that we are more generous and empathetic than most people realize. We get castigated because of our stand against religions and gods, but if people were to really see past those issues, most would be surprised to find out that all we as atheists ever want is a better world for everybody. The mean and less empathetic people you refer to are usually conservative evangelicals from the bible belt section of the US. If you look at the friendliest and most open minded people in the US, they are usually found on the Coasts and Northern part of the country. This is also where most atheists are located. The less empathetic people who still want the racist confederate flags to fly in their states are usually the religious conservatives of the south. Those are the ones you should be worried about when it comes to lack of empathy for humanity. Not the educated atheists.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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masukuma wrote:my theory is Humans need to understand the universe... or at least be able to explain it to themselves! That is how the human brain works... it simply does not like saying SIJUI one too many times when confronted with a question and may need to delude itself into having an "answer". The people you ridicule - the people in the slums and the not so green areas of Kenya need to believe something! I think it was @Tycho who once asked and I paraphrase "what will we need to pray for" in the context of wealth, understanding. It's a plain fact that Religion is the opium of the poor ... and it's good for Opium to do it's thing! Numb the pain of poverty! Sedate the mind by telling it about a nicer place (paved with Gold) because if it does not... you will not like that horde of people matching your way. I remember asking about this photo some years back  - I think @hambuglar had an answer that "the system failed the kid". I remember asking about the parent of this kid.. is he/she willing to believe that's it? the Kid was eaten by that vulture and THAT IS IT? I think we are not ready for the hordes of people living in destitution to believe "THIS IS IT! YOU DIED AND - THAT'S ALL FOLKS" simply because (my opinion) they will raid @Hambuglar's restaurant - kwani utaDo? Atheism only works with educated people simply because THEY KNOW BETTER and the system kinda works for them. Not for everyone! My thoughts! Well said masukuma.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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hamburglar wrote: Obi. I usually agree with you on most about everything you say because i know that you get it, but i have to disagree with your assertion that less religious people are less empathetic. In fact, i could argue that atheists might actually be more empathetic and carry themselves with more integrity than some pastors who are getting drunk, driving recklessly and killing people on the road only to try and weasel their way out of their responsibility. If that were me, i would man up and face my consequences as a man, because i have empathy and i take responsibility for my actions, good or bad.
I happen to have a lot of atheist friends in the US who are very philanthropic. Most are highly educated and well off financially, and they are the most caring people in this world. Whenever something bad happens in Kenya, they are the first ones to call and ask how and if they can help. Some visit Africa every year and really try to uplift people' s standards of living. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, possibly the richest men in the world are both atheists and both happen to be the biggest philanthropists around. The thing about atheists is that we understand that we might be more privileged than most, but in my experience with my atheist friends, i find that we are more generous and empathetic than most people realize. We get castigated because of our stand against religions and gods, but if people were to really see past those issues, most would be surprised to find out that all we as atheists ever want is a better world for everybody.
The mean and less empathetic people you refer to are usually conservative evangelicals from the bible belt section of the US. If you look at the friendliest and most open minded people in the US, they are usually found on the Coasts and Northern part of the country. This is also where most atheists are located. The less empathetic people who still want the racist confederate flags to fly in their states are usually the religious conservatives of the south. Those are the ones you should be worried about when it comes to lack of empathy for humanity. Not the educated atheists.
First of all,I am not encouraging or advocating for anyone to break the law or excuse the actions and views of others. If I were to entertain the thought that all atheists want a better world for everybody, you would be incapable of defining that 'better' world and how education or atheism leads one to it. What is wrong with driving recklessly? What is wrong with being apathetic? What is wrong with killing people? What is wrong with getting drunk? What is wrong with being mean? What is wrong with slavery? What is wrong? These are things taken at face value but by the same standards you approach theists they should be considered stupid and imaginary. You cannot speak on the views and actions of all atheists. The same hypocrisy that you would want to attribute to theists would only be more emboldened in atheism.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:masukuma wrote:my theory is Humans need to understand the universe... or at least be able to explain it to themselves! That is how the human brain works... it simply does not like saying SIJUI one too many times when confronted with a question and may need to delude itself into having an "answer". The people you ridicule - the people in the slums and the not so green areas of Kenya need to believe something! I think it was @Tycho who once asked and I paraphrase "what will we need to pray for" in the context of wealth, understanding. It's a plain fact that Religion is the opium of the poor ... and it's good for Opium to do it's thing! Numb the pain of poverty! Sedate the mind by telling it about a nicer place (paved with Gold) because if it does not... you will not like that horde of people matching your way. I remember asking about this photo some years back  - I think @hambuglar had an answer that "the system failed the kid". I remember asking about the parent of this kid.. is he/she willing to believe that's it? the Kid was eaten by that vulture and THAT IS IT? I think we are not ready for the hordes of people living in destitution to believe "THIS IS IT! YOU DIED AND - THAT'S ALL FOLKS" simply because (my opinion) they will raid @Hambuglar's restaurant - kwani utaDo? Atheism only works with educated people simply because THEY KNOW BETTER and the system kinda works for them. Not for everyone! My thoughts! Well said masukuma. If @hamburglar agrees with @masukuma here then I have no doubt that he too agrees with post #69 where I agree with @masukuma on the usefulness and the limitations of belief systems in human attempts to explain and modify their experiences. If this is the case then @hamburglar's posts castigating, ridiculing and insulting theists have been driven by a different kind of logic that's at odds with what he believes now. Unwittingly, he has vindicated theism and admitted that he can't speak against God and be consistent with his belief. Nay, he shows that his sense of justice is cruelty and dehumanization. He doesn't even know what 'empathy' is. "Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference, i.e., the capacity to place oneself in another's shoes." It's so sad to me that a person can embrace injustice and cruelty so much that when he adds insult to injury he believes he's being nice.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:hamburglar wrote: Obi. I usually agree with you on most about everything you say because i know that you get it, but i have to disagree with your assertion that less religious people are less empathetic. In fact, i could argue that atheists might actually be more empathetic and carry themselves with more integrity than some pastors who are getting drunk, driving recklessly and killing people on the road only to try and weasel their way out of their responsibility. If that were me, i would man up and face my consequences as a man, because i have empathy and i take responsibility for my actions, good or bad.
I happen to have a lot of atheist friends in the US who are very philanthropic. Most are highly educated and well off financially, and they are the most caring people in this world. Whenever something bad happens in Kenya, they are the first ones to call and ask how and if they can help. Some visit Africa every year and really try to uplift people' s standards of living. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, possibly the richest men in the world are both atheists and both happen to be the biggest philanthropists around. The thing about atheists is that we understand that we might be more privileged than most, but in my experience with my atheist friends, i find that we are more generous and empathetic than most people realize. We get castigated because of our stand against religions and gods, but if people were to really see past those issues, most would be surprised to find out that all we as atheists ever want is a better world for everybody.
The mean and less empathetic people you refer to are usually conservative evangelicals from the bible belt section of the US. If you look at the friendliest and most open minded people in the US, they are usually found on the Coasts and Northern part of the country. This is also where most atheists are located. The less empathetic people who still want the racist confederate flags to fly in their states are usually the religious conservatives of the south. Those are the ones you should be worried about when it comes to lack of empathy for humanity. Not the educated atheists.
First of all,I am not encouraging or advocating for anyone to break the law or excuse the actions and views of others. If I were to entertain the thought that all atheists want a better world for everybody, you would be incapable of defining that 'better' world and how education or atheism leads one to it. What is wrong with driving recklessly? What is wrong with being apathetic? What is wrong with killing people? What is wrong with getting drunk? What is wrong with being mean? What is wrong with slavery? What is wrong? These are things taken at face value but by the same standards you approach theists they should be considered stupid and imaginary. You cannot speak on the views and actions of all atheists. The same hypocrisy that you would want to attribute to theists would only be more emboldened in atheism. I agree. You've paraphrased what West Churchman called the 'Challenge to reason'. He argues that Leibniz's 'monadism' calls for a God who knows the whole universe; but now when God is no longer necessary, reason and science must show that it knows the whole universe to be able to speak of 'Good', 'better', or 'best'.
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