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Missing Billions!!!
tycho
#81 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 8:29:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Jump-steady wrote:
tycho wrote:
We could also look at corruption as a system defect that goes beyond individuals and use appropriate technologies like MMORPG's to create new worlds - metaverses.


d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


Here's an example of how MMORPGs can be used in 'real'/'physical' life http://mmos.com/editorials/mmorpg-scams

It's the creation of virtual space where behavior can be changed and different outcomes produced. Imagine a game that includes say the country's electoral system; if well designed then voters would have to go beyond the kind of politics we wish to avoid.

Then the plus is that the MMORPG designer wouldn't need to adhere to most of the political game that we're used to and seek to avoid. The players would be part of an emergent movement whose influence would be difficult to stop.

Gaming is a powerful tool, and the political landscape has changed beyond imagination perhaps.
harrydre
#82 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 10:27:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
Alba wrote:
In addition to the issues above, I would like Uhuru defenders to answer one thing: An audit has indicated billions are missing from ministries. The cabinet secretaries are directly appointed by the president. So far he has done nothing. I am not sure he has even addressed this issue with the seriousness it deserves. I am not sure he has even mentioned it.

Do Peterborn, Kratos and others mean to tell us that the president cannot at leat demand answers, hire a special investigator, fire cabinet ministers for inability to account for money?

People want answers and the president is silent. Is this appropriate behaviour from a president?

If it is true as you say that the president cannot do anything then we should change the constitution and stop voting for presidents.

When you see issues like corruption, crime, traffic, safety etc not addressed, you can blame yourselves. You are the ones making excuses for the president because he is from your ethnic group.


some of the audits are not credible. Auditor General was provided with documentation but ignored, went ahead and presented 'findings' to parliament. If you know how auditing works, then clearly this is unprofessional, you cant afford to discredit even a little bit about your profession as an auditor because management usually dismisses everything you tell them going forward. Doesn't mean some funds have not been stolen by Ouko needs to address the credibility issues.


i.am.back!!!!
Gathige
#83 Posted : Saturday, August 01, 2015 12:32:52 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
harrydre wrote:
Alba wrote:
In addition to the issues above, I would like Uhuru defenders to answer one thing: An audit has indicated billions are missing from ministries. The cabinet secretaries are directly appointed by the president. So far he has done nothing. I am not sure he has even addressed this issue with the seriousness it deserves. I am not sure he has even mentioned it.

Do Peterborn, Kratos and others mean to tell us that the president cannot at leat demand answers, hire a special investigator, fire cabinet ministers for inability to account for money?

People want answers and the president is silent. Is this appropriate behaviour from a president?

If it is true as you say that the president cannot do anything then we should change the constitution and stop voting for presidents.

When you see issues like corruption, crime, traffic, safety etc not addressed, you can blame yourselves. You are the ones making excuses for the president because he is from your ethnic group.


some of the audits are not credible. Auditor General was provided with documentation but ignored, went ahead and presented 'findings' to parliament. If you know how auditing works, then clearly this is unprofessional, you cant afford to discredit even a little bit about your profession as an auditor because management usually dismisses everything you tell them going forward. Doesn't mean some funds have not been stolen by Ouko needs to address the credibility issues.





Precisely. Until the client, in this particular case, the individual government entities, have given their feedback on the report findings on the issues sighted in the report, the findings remains immaterial. When billions go missing, it's no joke. Issues like documents not being availed as at the time of the audit can easily be resolved by giving the client additional time to get them. As they say, an auditor is not a greyhound baying for blood.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
Alba
#84 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 4:02:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
harrydre wrote:


some of the audits are not credible. Auditor General was provided with documentation but ignored, went ahead and presented 'findings' to parliament. If you know how auditing works, then clearly this is unprofessional, you cant afford to discredit even a little bit about your profession as an auditor because management usually dismisses everything you tell them going forward. Doesn't mean some funds have not been stolen by Ouko needs to address the credibility issues.




These are mere technicalities.

What is clear is that the president needs to address this issue one way or another. If the main auditor is unprofessional then the president needs to take steps to correct the problem perhaps by appointing a more competent person or other measures.
On the other hand if billions are disappearing (which is more likely) then the president should take even more stringent steps.

This is about changing the culture of impunity. If a president is silent each time there is a corruption scandal then the public perception is that corruption is being tolerated at the highest levels. This trickles downwards. A policeman will have no qualms about demanding a bribe if he thinks the president himself is abetting corruption.

The reason Kenyans are corrupt from top to bottom is because they watch the president aiding or tolerating corruption. The first 3 presidents were corrupt and did nothing amid scandals like goldenberg and Anglo leasing.

They watch public officials looting meagre public coffers. So what do you expect them to do? of course they will also demand bribes and loot wherever they can. Again the president can change this culture if he leads by example.
PeterReborn
#85 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 5:37:38 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,063
Alba wrote:
harrydre wrote:


some of the audits are not credible. Auditor General was provided with documentation but ignored, went ahead and presented 'findings' to parliament. If you know how auditing works, then clearly this is unprofessional, you cant afford to discredit even a little bit about your profession as an auditor because management usually dismisses everything you tell them going forward. Doesn't mean some funds have not been stolen by Ouko needs to address the credibility issues.




These are mere technicalities.

What is clear is that the president needs to address this issue one way or another. If the main auditor is unprofessional then the president needs to take steps to correct the problem perhaps by appointing a more competent person or other measures.
On the other hand if billions are disappearing (which is more likely) then the president should take even more stringent steps.

This is about changing the culture of impunity. If a president is silent each time there is a corruption scandal then the public perception is that corruption is being tolerated at the highest levels. This trickles downwards. A policeman will have no qualms about demanding a bribe if he thinks the president himself is abetting corruption.

The reason Kenyans are corrupt from top to bottom is because they watch the president aiding or tolerating corruption. The first 3 presidents were corrupt and did nothing amid scandals like goldenberg and Anglo leasing.

They watch public officials looting meagre public coffers. So what do you expect them to do? of course they will also demand bribes and loot wherever they can. Again the president can change this culture if he leads by example.


Boss your obsession with the president will kill you.The president will come and go but strong institutions will stay.You need to realize that we are under a new dispensation.The president has no business investigating a rogue auditor.ICPAK should move with speed and investigate the auditor.The last thing we want is to reduce the government auditing to political contest.The media also needs to stop sensationalizing the issue and get their facts right.The auditor did not say that the money has been lost but that he did not get supporting documents.Most of the funds includes 22B paid to the doctors by the central government and the auditor was aware.He also needs to have an exit meeting with the accounting officers before submitting his reports to parliament.The reason for refusing to include the feedback from the accounting officers should be investigated.
Consistency is better than intensity
Alba
#86 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 7:19:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
PeterReborn wrote:

Boss your obsession with the president will kill you.The president will come and go but strong institutions will stay.You need to realize that we are under a new dispensation.The president has no business investigating a rogue auditor.ICPAK should move with speed and investigate the auditor.The last thing we want is to reduce the government auditing to political contest.The media also needs to stop sensationalizing the issue and get their facts right.The auditor did not say that the money has been lost but that he did not get supporting documents.Most of the funds includes 22B paid to the doctors by the central government and the auditor was aware.He also needs to have an exit meeting with the accounting officers before submitting his reports to parliament.The reason for refusing to include the feedback from the accounting officers should be investigated.



The sycophancy of people like you is what is killing Kenyans. It is what is leading to worsening insecurity, crime, unemployment etc.

Are you saying that there is nothing our president can do about corruption?
Please answer


You speak of strong institutions yet you know that these institutions are weak because their work is hindered by MPs and other vested interests.

You say the president should not investigate the Auditor? As I see it, the auditor is a presidential appointee. If the president does not take action against the auditor then who else will?

The president has direct control over his MPs. If there is just cause, he should demand a parliamentary investigation of the auditor.

In America, Obama is held accountable for every issue. When the Obamacare website was not functioning, Obama was criticized because it was he who appointed Kathleen Sebelius. Yes Obama was accountable for that website fiasco. Americans hold their presidents accountable. We Kenyans make excuses. No wonder we will never progress on issues like corruption.
PeterReborn
#87 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 7:41:11 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,063
Alba wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:

Boss your obsession with the president will kill you.The president will come and go but strong institutions will stay.You need to realize that we are under a new dispensation.The president has no business investigating a rogue auditor.ICPAK should move with speed and investigate the auditor.The last thing we want is to reduce the government auditing to political contest.The media also needs to stop sensationalizing the issue and get their facts right.The auditor did not say that the money has been lost but that he did not get supporting documents.Most of the funds includes 22B paid to the doctors by the central government and the auditor was aware.He also needs to have an exit meeting with the accounting officers before submitting his reports to parliament.The reason for refusing to include the feedback from the accounting officers should be investigated.



The sycophancy of people like you is what is killing Kenyans. It is what is leading to worsening insecurity, crime, unemployment etc.

Are you saying that there is nothing our president can do about corruption?
Please answer


You speak of strong institutions yet you know that these institutions are weak because their work is hindered by MPs and other vested interests.

You say the president should not investigate the Auditor? As I see it, the auditor is a presidential appointee. If the president does not take action against the auditor then who else will?

The president has direct control over his MPs. If there is just cause, he should demand a parliamentary investigation of the auditor.

In America, Obama is held accountable for every issue. When the Obamacare website was not functioning, Obama was criticized because it was he who appointed Kathleen Sebelius. Yes Obama was accountable for that website fiasco. Americans hold their presidents accountable. We Kenyans make excuses. No wonder we will never progress on issues like corruption.

Shame on you Shame on you
syc·o·phant
ˈsikəˌfant,ˈsikəfənt/
noun
noun: sycophant; plural noun: sycophants

a person who acts obsequiously toward someone important in order to gain advantage.
synonyms: yes-man, bootlicker, brown-noser, toady, lickspittle, flatterer, flunky, lackey, spaniel, doormat, stooge, cringer, suck, suck-up
"I thought you wanted a competent assistant, not a nodding sycophant"

You need to stop being ignorant and read your constitution.
Consistency is better than intensity
Much Know
#88 Posted : Tuesday, August 04, 2015 10:52:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,588
Mimi naona Auditor hana makosa yoyote Shame on you
"Late/Delayed" reports are the biggest loophole to steal and are a SURE indicator of financial ineptitude!. How come Uhuru reports were given in on time? Because he is a financial expert sio? All the queries raised by the Auditor General are valid until ALL supporting documents and reports are filed ASAP, they should be done bi-annually, people are TWO YEARS LATE in reporting, we don't want any loopholes at all better sad than sorry. tusidharau kazi za watu na ukabila bure! People should report ON TIME hata kama ni the parliamentary PAC-men, wezi ni wale wale!
Ras Kienyeji Man
Alba
#89 Posted : Tuesday, August 04, 2015 3:37:30 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
PeterReborn wrote:

Shame on you Shame on you
syc·o·phant
ˈsikəˌfant,ˈsikəfənt/
noun
noun: sycophant; plural noun: sycophants

a person who acts obsequiously toward someone important in order to gain advantage.
synonyms: yes-man, bootlicker, brown-noser, toady, lickspittle, flatterer, flunky, lackey, spaniel, doormat, stooge, cringer, suck, suck-up
"I thought you wanted a competent assistant, not a nodding sycophant"

You need to stop being ignorant and read your constitution.



Peter Born please just tell us what if anything the president can do about corruption. You mean to tell us that because of the new constitutional dispensation, our president cannot address corruption at all?
PeterReborn
#90 Posted : Wednesday, August 05, 2015 10:32:10 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,063
Alba wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:

Shame on you Shame on you
syc·o·phant
ˈsikəˌfant,ˈsikəfənt/
noun
noun: sycophant; plural noun: sycophants

a person who acts obsequiously toward someone important in order to gain advantage.
synonyms: yes-man, bootlicker, brown-noser, toady, lickspittle, flatterer, flunky, lackey, spaniel, doormat, stooge, cringer, suck, suck-up
"I thought you wanted a competent assistant, not a nodding sycophant"

You need to stop being ignorant and read your constitution.



Peter Born please just tell us what if anything the president can do about corruption. You mean to tell us that because of the new constitutional dispensation, our president cannot address corruption at all?


The president is the CEO of this country.He has the responsibility of providing strategic direction and is our vision carrier.He has been entrusted with the responsibility of ensuring that our little resources are used optimally without wastage.He however doesnt exist in a vacuum.He cannot work in isolation.We have other stakeholders in the middle level and operational level to implement his policies.
Uhuru has the best interest of this country at heart.He has however some key people in his government who are dragging him to the mud.These people are a necessary evil.He needs them for his re-election and thus he has to tolerate them.I am sure we will see drastic efforts in his second term as he will have nothing to lose.
Look at the way parliament shot down the motion to prosecute Wailers people due to the hustlers jet.What is uhuru supposed to do to them?Why would a member of PAC who was involved in drafting the report be the first member to reject the same report in the house.This is the highest level of impunity and lack of accountability.We as Kenya citizens need to wake up and send these greedy & corrupt pigs home.
Consistency is better than intensity
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