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Missing Billions!!!
Kratos
#71 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2015 8:04:53 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
@ Alba,

The reason I asked you about the powers is because Kenyans mistakenly think that since the buck lies with the president as you put it he should also be the one fighting corruption and all other evils single handedly. If you watched/read obamas speech at Kasarani he is on record saying that it is upto the people of Kenya as a whole. Corruption has become a culture and no single person not even any president can stop the mess we are in. It will take all the people to get tired and say no. So far I see Mps being the greatest hindrance to fighting corruption with their shenanigans with EACC. Judiciary is independent, kindly give facts on how it is not.
We have a great constitution and as it is, the president can only but follow it. Like Obama said you cant please everyone all the time. Pessimism from Kenyans actually gives corruption room to thrive.

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
Alba
#72 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2015 11:32:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Kratos wrote:
@ Alba,

The reason I asked you about the powers is because Kenyans mistakenly think that since the buck lies with the president as you put it he should also be the one fighting corruption and all other evils single handedly. If you watched/read obamas speech at Kasarani he is on record saying that it is upto the people of Kenya as a whole. Corruption has become a culture and no single person not even any president can stop the mess we are in. It will take all the people to get tired and say no. So far I see Mps being the greatest hindrance to fighting corruption with their shenanigans with EACC. Judiciary is independent, kindly give facts on how it is not.
We have a great constitution and as it is, the president can only but follow it. Like Obama said you cant please everyone all the time. Pessimism from Kenyans actually gives corruption room to thrive.



When people get tired and say No, then what will they do?
Nothing.
As I said earlier, the solution is to elect leaders who are serious about tackling issues. Uhuru is not serious about tackling corruption. People like you are not helping by trotting out excuses for him. People like you will vote for him anyway because tribe is the most important factor in Kenyan elections.

Thats why we are stuck where we are. Thats why billions of Ksh dissapear everyday. It is because of our tribal patterns of defending poor leadership and voting for incompetent leaders.

The buck does not stop with president. But he can have a significant impact against corruption as I pointed out above. He needs to show some leadership on this issue.

You say corruption has become a culture? Well guess what? It became a culture because of tribalism. When Jomo Kenyatta was engaging in corruption and he was challenged, he managed to convince his people that those challenging him were against Kikuyus. Moi did the same.

When Ruto was grabbing land at the Mau catchment area and he was confronted, he said his accusers were against the Kalenjin people and they believed him.

This also means that Uhuru cannot ask Ruto to stop grabbing langata primary and other land because Ruto will frame it as an attack on the Kalenjin.

As you can see, our leaders have been using tribalism to foster a culture of impunity and corruption.


PeterReborn
#73 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 10:10:01 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,063
The argument that the president is solely to blame and that citizens have no responsibility doesn't make sense.It belongs to the old school of thought that the president is to blame for everything including when you get an Erectile Dysfunction.The days when the president was mwalimu no1,mkulima no1,daktari no 1 etc.Kenya now has a progressive constitution which created structures that have rights and responsibilities.Most of the power for the president was now shared with different organs and they need to play their part.
Citizens also need to refrain from corrupt practices.When you get arrested for overspeeding on thika highway how should the president stop you from giving the traffic cop 1000 bob bribe?When you want your passport within a day and you give Mawinder 10000 bob to expediate the process,how will the president stop you from your corrupt practices?
Fighting corruption is a collective effort.Kumaliza ufisadi unaanza na wewe.
Where do the leaders who are elected come from?They are elected by the society and therefore are a reflection of that society.The leaders are accountable to the people.That is why we pay taxes.They are our servants.
The Kibaki government did well by having a vision for this country.Vision 2030 is a wonderful strategic goal-Making kenya a middle income society by 2030.Most kenyans either are not aware of this vision or do not believe in this vision.What we need it do deal with anything that goes against this vision.The strategy has three main levels:Corporate,Business and functional levels.The corporate level is the executive,legislature and Judiciary,Business level is the ministries and government departments and functional level is the mwananchi.The three levels must work together seamlessly.
The auditor general has done his part in pointing out the areas of corruption.The police needs to move swiftly and investigate and gather evidence of the corruption.The DPP must then charge the culprits in the courts and based on the evidence the culprits must be convicted.This will act as a deterrent measure.All these organs of the government must work together.Chapter 6 of our constitution must be implemented in full.The people must stop whining on facebook,twitter and wazua.They need to go to the streets and demonstrate peacefully and say enough is enough.This spirit must also be exercised during the voting process.Change begins with me.
Consistency is better than intensity
Kratos
#74 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 10:19:10 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
PeterReborn wrote:
The argument that the president is solely to blame and that citizens have no responsibility doesn't make sense.It belongs to the old school of thought that the president is to blame for everything including when you get an Erectile Dysfunction.The days when the president was mwalimu no1,mkulima no1,daktari no 1 etc.Kenya now has a progressive constitution which created structures that have rights and responsibilities.Most of the power for the president was now shared with different organs and they need to play their part.
Citizens also need to refrain from corrupt practices.When you get arrested for overspeeding on thika highway how should the president stop you from giving the traffic cop 1000 bob bribe?When you want your passport within a day and you give Mawinder 10000 bob to expediate the process,how will the president stop you from your corrupt practices?
Fighting corruption is a collective effort.Kumaliza ufisadi unaanza na wewe.
Where do the leaders who are elected come from?They are elected by the society and therefore are a reflection of that society.The leaders are accountable to the people.That is why we pay taxes.They are our servants.
The Kibaki government did well by having a vision for this country.Vision 2030 is a wonderful strategic goal-Making kenya a middle income society by 2030.Most kenyans either are not aware of this vision or do not believe in this vision.What we need it do deal with anything that goes against this vision.The strategy has three main levels:Corporate,Business and functional levels.The corporate level is the executive,legislature and Judiciary,Business level is the ministries and government departments and functional level is the mwananchi.The three levels must work together seamlessly.
The auditor general has done his part in pointing out the areas of corruption.The police needs to move swiftly and investigate and gather evidence of the corruption.The DPP must then charge the culprits in the courts and based on the evidence the culprits must be convicted.This will act as a deterrent measure.All these organs of the government must work together.Chapter 6 of our constitution must be implemented in full.The people must stop whining on facebook,twitter and wazua.They need to go to the streets and demonstrate peacefully and say enough is enough.This spirit must also be exercised during the voting process.Change begins with me.


Couldn't have put it any better. The day we stop pointing outwards rather than SELF is the day the fight will grow teeth. While others are busy pointing towards the president to fight corruption some of us are playing our part by abstaining, reporting and educating our children about the vice that is corruption. The days where a single institution like the presidency was mandated to oversee all and sundry is over. People forget why we needed a new constitution in the first place.

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
PeterReborn
#75 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 10:52:12 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,063
Kratos wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
The argument that the president is solely to blame and that citizens have no responsibility doesn't make sense.It belongs to the old school of thought that the president is to blame for everything including when you get an Erectile Dysfunction.The days when the president was mwalimu no1,mkulima no1,daktari no 1 etc.Kenya now has a progressive constitution which created structures that have rights and responsibilities.Most of the power for the president was now shared with different organs and they need to play their part.
Citizens also need to refrain from corrupt practices.When you get arrested for overspeeding on thika highway how should the president stop you from giving the traffic cop 1000 bob bribe?When you want your passport within a day and you give Mawinder 10000 bob to expediate the process,how will the president stop you from your corrupt practices?
Fighting corruption is a collective effort.Kumaliza ufisadi unaanza na wewe.
Where do the leaders who are elected come from?They are elected by the society and therefore are a reflection of that society.The leaders are accountable to the people.That is why we pay taxes.They are our servants.
The Kibaki government did well by having a vision for this country.Vision 2030 is a wonderful strategic goal-Making kenya a middle income society by 2030.Most kenyans either are not aware of this vision or do not believe in this vision.What we need it do deal with anything that goes against this vision.The strategy has three main levels:Corporate,Business and functional levels.The corporate level is the executive,legislature and Judiciary,Business level is the ministries and government departments and functional level is the mwananchi.The three levels must work together seamlessly.
The auditor general has done his part in pointing out the areas of corruption.The police needs to move swiftly and investigate and gather evidence of the corruption.The DPP must then charge the culprits in the courts and based on the evidence the culprits must be convicted.This will act as a deterrent measure.All these organs of the government must work together.Chapter 6 of our constitution must be implemented in full.The people must stop whining on facebook,twitter and wazua.They need to go to the streets and demonstrate peacefully and say enough is enough.This spirit must also be exercised during the voting process.Change begins with me.


Couldn't have put it any better. The day we stop pointing outwards rather than SELF is the day the fight will grow teeth. While others are busy pointing towards the president to fight corruption some of us are playing our part by abstaining, reporting and educating our children about the vice that is corruption. The days where a single institution like the presidency was mandated to oversee all and sundry is over. People forget why we needed a new constitution in the first place.

Talking of education,i love the changes that have been proposed by the ministry of education.All KASNEB students must undertake an ethics and governance course.Most of the MBA courses now have a unit on ethics and governance and this will be pushed to the undergraduate level.There is also a proposal to start this course at high school level.The Kenya school of government is also putting together a course on ethics and government and all government employees must go through this course.This awareness is steps in the right direction.Churches should also play a role and encourage their congregations to be honest and shun corruption.
Consistency is better than intensity
tycho
#76 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 2:01:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
We could also look at corruption as a system defect that goes beyond individuals and use appropriate technologies like MMORPG's to create new worlds - metaverses.
harrydre
#77 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 2:35:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
http://www.businessdaily...4/-/29734i/-/index.html



Witch hunt? Watu wafanye kazi professionally!
i.am.back!!!!
Jump-steady
#78 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 4:56:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,098
tycho wrote:
We could also look at corruption as a system defect that goes beyond individuals and use appropriate technologies like MMORPG's to create new worlds - metaverses.


d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
Alba
#79 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 7:30:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
PeterReborn wrote:
The argument that the president is solely to blame and that citizens have no responsibility doesn't make sense.It belongs to the old school of thought that the president is to blame for everything including when you get an Erectile Dysfunction.The days when the president was mwalimu no1,mkulima no1,daktari no 1 etc.Kenya now has a progressive constitution which created structures that have rights and responsibilities.Most of the power for the president was now shared with different organs and they need to play their part.


You and others keep creating this strawman argument. No one has said that a president is solely responsible. But the president must take responsibility to address the most pressing issue facing a country. If a president is not primarily responsible for addressing the most important issues then why a elect a president? Is he a ceremonial president In Nigeria, the biggest issue was security vis a vis Boko Haram. President Jonathan failed miserably. Nigerians voted him out without regard to tribe. Unlike Kenyans, Nigerians do not vote on tribal basis. That’s why they will continue to progress faster.

Quote:


Citizens also need to refrain from corrupt practices.When you get arrested for overspeeding on thika highway how should the president stop you from giving the traffic cop 1000 bob bribe?When you want your passport within a day and you give Mawinder 10000 bob to expediate the process,how will the president stop you from your corrupt practices?


Citizens will never stop corrupt practices unless there is a deterrent. This has never happened in any country. Its up to the president to put those deterrents in place. I have outlined above how he should fire corrupt public officials, protect activists like Boniface mwangi, tell his MPs to stop harassing anti corruption officials etc etc. This is called leadership

Quote:

Fighting corruption is a collective effort.Kumaliza ufisadi unaanza na wewe.
Where do the leaders who are elected come from?They are elected by the society and therefore are a reflection of that society.The leaders are accountable to the people.That is why we pay taxes.They are our servants.


That’s exactly my point. We must start by voting on issues like corruption, crime and safety. Stop making excuses for the president just because he is from your ethnic group. The president bears most but not all the responsibility for addressing critical issues. Next time you go to vote , take off your tribal hat and vote issues. If you do not do that then such issues will never be addressed. And for petes sake stop making excuses for him just because he is from your ethnic group.

Quote:

The Kibaki government did well by having a vision for this country.Vision 2030 is a wonderful strategic goal-Making kenya a middle income society by 2030.


Vision 2030 was just mdomo mdomo. Kibaki did nothing to address corruption. His henchmen threatened John Githongo until he had to flee for his life. The Kibaki cabinet was rife with one corruption scandal after the next. He never addressed corruption within his cabinet. When cabinet ministers get away with corruption, then everyone else feels that they must also steal.
Though Kibaki did not address corruption within his cabinet, people supported him. Thats why tribalism is Kenya's biggest cancer.

Quote:

The auditor general has done his part in pointing out the areas of corruption.The police needs to move swiftly and investigate and gather evidence of the corruption.The DPP must then charge the culprits in the courts and based on the evidence the culprits must be convicted. This will act as a deterrent measure.


Why do you think no bigwigs are ever charged? Because some of them are protected by the president. Why is it that under kibaki, cabinet ministers like murungaru were embroiled in multiple corruption scandals and nothing ever happened? Why was’nt the maize scandal ever fully investigated? I blame Kibaki for all that. He can direct the proper authorities to investigate and leave no stone unturned.

I specifically remember 2003 when the roads minister directed that all buildings built on road reserves be demolished. This is the correct thing to do. Kibaki rescinded that plan. So if you are suffering from traffic congestion today, you can blame Kibaki and Uhuru.

Quote:

All these organs of the government must work together.Chapter 6 of our constitution must be implemented in full.The people must stop whining on facebook,twitter and wazua.They need to go to the streets and demonstrate peacefully and say enough is enough.This spirit must also be exercised during the voting process.Change begins with me.


The people will never demonstrate in the street because they are tribal. They will support the government in power so long as one of their own is president.
Alba
#80 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 7:38:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
In addition to the issues above, I would like Uhuru defenders to answer one thing: An audit has indicated billions are missing from ministries. The cabinet secretaries are directly appointed by the president. So far he has done nothing. I am not sure he has even addressed this issue with the seriousness it deserves. I am not sure he has even mentioned it.

Do Peterborn, Kratos and others mean to tell us that the president cannot at leat demand answers, hire a special investigator, fire cabinet ministers for inability to account for money?

People want answers and the president is silent. Is this appropriate behaviour from a president?

If it is true as you say that the president cannot do anything then we should change the constitution and stop voting for presidents.

When you see issues like corruption, crime, traffic, safety etc not addressed, you can blame yourselves. You are the ones making excuses for the president because he is from your ethnic group.
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