Wazua
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A Better Kenya
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,941
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Dream on....... In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:Dream on....... If I 'wake up' and find that I can't remember my dream, I get so disappointed because dreams are usually more informative and useful than my thoughts when 'awake'.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Angelica _ann wrote:Dream on....... So what are Wazuans doing in a section for dreamers if they're not dreamers? It can't be for a better Kenya.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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I think most of our people don't have much stake in the Kenya we have....we need to advance materially first then we'll as well advance in thought....scientifically.
We must have a class consciousness that surpasses our kinship attachments to overcome our current woes. On this score even Che Guevara gave up on Africa
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Rahatupu wrote:I think most of our people don't have much stake in the Kenya we have....we need to advance materially first then we'll as well advance in thought....scientifically.
We must have a class consciousness that surpasses our kinship attachments to overcome our current woes. On this score even Che Guevara gave up on Africa The greatest danger is that most of us have probably lost the power of dreams.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Alba wrote:[quote=¿]
Tribalism and tribal voting is Kenya's biggest impediment. If you stop tyranny of numbers aka tribalism, people will start voting on issues, we will hold politicians accountable and stop defending incompetent people. Issues like security, corruption, crime etc will be addressed because people will vote on these issues. And Kenya will progress in leaps and bounds.
I used to believe this too, but I am not sure anymore. My observation is that whenever people are offered a choice they will chose on the basis of 'tribalism' (by whatever name you call it) Obama spoke of to us about tribalism. In the US he uses the words partisanship, or racism. In other other places they call it nationalism. Same difference. The few times people vote on so called 'issues' is when it is in their clear interest to do so. We have seen this in Kenya, the recent rise of Uhuruto, the Kibaki Tosha event, the fist Kanu government etc. In each case we saw voting patterns that seemed to transcend tribe. How did this make us better? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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@Wakanyugi
Partisanship in the US is not tribalism. It is based on ideology or principles. Republicans have a set of beliefs that are the polar opposite of democrats. For example, republicans are passionately pro-gun and will vote against any politician who wants to resrict gun ownership. On the other hand democrats are often passionate about issues like the environment and social spending.
With regard to racism, it is true that racism affects the US but not to the same extent as tribalism in Kenya. Obama is black yet he was elected in the US. If he were a Kenyan, he would have been eliminated from contention based on his ethnicity.
Obama was elected because he espoused principles like protecting the environment, spreading wealth, healthcare for all, ending wars, social justice, immigration reform etc. As a result, the US has made progress in healthcare reform, ending wars and so forth.
On the other hand, in Kenya he would likely need to build a tribal coalition. very few people gets any tangible benefit from voting based on tribe. The country is the biggest loser because Uhuru does not care about these issues. He knows that whether Kenya is insecure or whether crime is high does not matter. Come 2017 Its all about tribal coalitions. Thats why tribalism is Kenya's biggest cancer.
But lets forget USA. Look at Nigeria. They identified their biggest issue as being security (with regard to Boko Haram). So they voted out goodluck jonathan because he was incompetent when it comes to addressing security. They will keep voting on this issue until they find a president who can address it. Thats why they will make progress.
In Kenya we have issues like security, crime, unemployment, traffic, poor infrastructure. These issues not only affect your safety, they also affect foreign investment and thus hinder economic growth. Tourists do not want to come to an unsafe country. Investors don't want to build factories in a corrupt country.
No wonders tourists are voting with their feet and leaving. No wonder unemployment is high due to low foreign investment. Thus crime is high because there are too many unemployed youth.
But instead of voting on any of these issues, we obsess with tribe. We defend mediocre leaders if they are from our tribe. Thats why these issues are not being solved in Kenya.
Also, in Naija, the presidents typically come from the smaller tribes. There is no tyranny of numbers or tyranny of tribalism in Nigeria.
The Hausa are the largest ethnic group yet there has never been a Hausa president. Buhari is fulani, Jonathan was Ijaw, Babangida was Nupe, Abacha was kanuri and so forth.
Going further back, shagari was fulani, Murtala was Berom............
This can never happen in Kenya. Imagine a Pokomo or Teso as president?
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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@Alba - What if voting based on tribe isn't about benefits but 'protection' against real or perceived loss brought on by change i.e. voting on a non-tribal basis?
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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@ AlbaThanks for the info on Nigeria. Would love to hear more of how other African countries are solving their governance issues. But I am with @Wakanyugi on the ubiquity of socialIy constructed divisions, tribal or otherwise, meant to oppress others. I cringe, CRINGE every time the USA is held up as a model of advanced governance. I hope no African country ever follows the USA’s inhumane, violent and loathsome trajectory to wealth. Racism, especially anti-Black racism is the more evil cousin of tribalism. I mean where does one begin? Decimation of American Indians? Chattel slavery? government sanctioned Jim Crow laws/policies designed to deny resources to these groups and entrench racism forever? Add criminalization of Blacks beginning with pre-unit kids so they can create for-profit jails/prisons to hold them, while lecturing the rest of the world about human rights/democracy and other nonsense—-uh..nuh..miss me with that. It means nothing that Obama was elected. It’s like electing a Pokot within a system designed to benefit Kikuyu elites. You cannot serve others if you antagonize the elites. USAians knew the racism was already institutionalized and so systemic, Obama could not dislodge it. He has tried to chip at it, but it would take another 20+ Obamas to get 1/3 there. haha..typed too much… Alba wrote:
With regard to racism, it is true that racism affects the US but not to the same extent as tribalism in Kenya. Obama is black yet he was elected in the US. If he were a Kenyan, he would have been eliminated from contention based on his ethnicity.
Obama was elected because he espoused principles like protecting the environment, spreading wealth, healthcare for all, ending wars, social justice, immigration reform etc. As a result, the US has made progress in healthcare reform, ending wars and so forth.
On the other hand, in Kenya he would likely need to build a tribal coalition. very few people gets any tangible benefit from voting based on tribe. The country is the biggest loser because Uhuru does not care about these issues. He knows that whether Kenya is insecure or whether crime is high does not matter. Come 2017 Its all about tribal coalitions. Thats why tribalism is Kenya's biggest cancer.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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Dahatre wrote:@ AlbaThanks for the info on Nigeria. Would love to hear more of how other African countries are solving their governance issues. But I am with @Wakanyugi on the ubiquity of socialIy constructed divisions, tribal or otherwise, meant to oppress others.
I cringe, CRINGE every time the USA is held up as a model of advanced governance. I hope no African country ever follows the USA’s inhumane, violent and loathsome trajectory to wealth.
Racism, especially anti-Black racism is the more evil cousin of tribalism. I mean where does one begin? Decimation of American Indians? Chattel slavery? government sanctioned Jim Crow laws/policies designed to deny resources to these groups and entrench racism forever?
Add criminalization of Blacks beginning with pre-unit kids so they can create for-profit jails/prisons to hold them, while lecturing the rest of the world about human rights/democracy and other nonsense—-uh..nuh..miss me with that.
It means nothing that Obama was elected. It’s like electing a Pokot within a system designed to benefit Kikuyu elites. You cannot serve others if you antagonize the elites. USAians knew the racism was already institutionalized and so systemic, Obama could not dislodge it. He has tried to chip at it, but it would take another 20+ Obamas to get 1/3 there. Well done, Kind Sir, Well done. I am truly impressed. And no, you did not type too much. Too little in my opinion. Please, tell us more. Please.
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