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sparkly		#31 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 9:09:16 AM
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi		mzazii wrote: [b]Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett[/b]... Vitu Vingi Sana Your signature - RED AND BOLD - is giving me a headache and 'burning' my eyes. At least remove the bold, WACHA KUWEKA VITU VINGI SANA!!LOL!! @ mzazii, there is someone who posts in a very bright/ Luminous blue, really burns my eyes especially on the small mobile screen. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Scubidu		#32 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 9:56:04 AM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 700 Location: Nairobi		@vvs. I understand banks are more than capable of trading without middlemen, but why does the NSE/CMA want this? Not all of the bank's bonds are held to maturity unlike the fund managers, so it doesn't sound like this is in the best interest of the membership of brokers. Is it a procedural issue or the commissions? And from a regulatory position is it easier for CMA to watch the market without middlemen? “We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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kizee		#33 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 10:32:35 AM
Rank: Member Joined: 1/9/2008 Posts: 537		why does the cma has to regulate the mkt? what value does cma oversite add? how many spurios trades has cma flagd? how many instances of unethical practic has cma unearthed??? let the market regulate itself...otc markets are very powerful at this
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VituVingiSana		#34 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 10:33:24 AM
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,361 Location: Nairobi		Scubidu wrote: @vvs. I understand banks are more than capable of trading without middlemen, but why does the NSE/CMA want this? Not all of the bank's bonds are held to maturity unlike the fund managers, so it doesn't sound like this is in the best interest of the membership of brokers. Is it a procedural issue or the commissions? And from a regulatory position is it easier for CMA to watch the market without middlemen? NSE/CMA want middlemen coz it gives them 'power' & commissions/fees... CMA can institute reporting rules but for the majority of Bonds... GoK bonds... the CBK has a far greater role to play... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - *to paraphrase Warren Buffett*
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Scubidu		#35 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 12:31:52 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 700 Location: Nairobi		kizee. I gather you don't have much faith in CMA, but have a lot of faith in our honest bond traders. So if 80% of the secondary bond trading is controlled by 5 players, they can regulate themselves effectively? So how will they do this, through some sort of OTC bond association? How do other otc markets you know regulate themselves without govt oversight? “We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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kizee		#36 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 12:36:51 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 1/9/2008 Posts: 537		the SA fixd income market was fully OTC the members form an association which regulates errant members...in addition if say a player posts a spurious price,an arbitraguer will spot this and taek advantage and the market will revert to its appropriate level...so what if the market is dominated by 5 players? the reason why we have 5 players is because the market offers no comparative advantage to wud be new players
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kizee		#37 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 12:39:41 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 1/9/2008 Posts: 537		lemme add that the fx market is OTC and it self regulates albeit with some intervention of the dealers association
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Scubidu		#38 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 1:54:12 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 700 Location: Nairobi		The association of otc members sounds like a good idea, but in Kenya (I don't know) and the NSE is being demutualized becoz Kenyan traders can't be trusted...somehow 5 huge self-regulating bond trading desks doesn't inspire more confidence for me either. I think there's the issue of banks being the custodians of public money...they would be funded by us to take risks...if they can speculate and by engaging in "spurious pricing" wud this lead to some sort of abuse...I think the trends in oversight are moving away from self-regulation with regard to proprietary trading within banks. Would you then introduce short selling? Becoz as you mentioned the market should correct itself? “We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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kizee		#39 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 3:00:10 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 1/9/2008 Posts: 537		banks in kenya are funded by taxpayers? i think ur confused there my man...the free market is the best mechanism for mkt regulation...bar none! the otc bond mkt wud self regulate but the mkt players wud correct any malfeasances...i wud def introduce short sellin y not? theres a HRT mkt wat wud be the risk? short sellin creates liquidity...wat happens if ur tradin bonds and the int rates rise? u cant really trade can u? unless u can short...btw are u aware how much cma wants to charge banks for the license?
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VituVingiSana		#40 Posted : Monday, March 08, 2010 3:45:50 PM
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,361 Location: Nairobi		Most Kenyan banks are NOT funded by taxpayers... and should not be... @scubidu - An OTC is fine. Even if there is not OTC... let the banks deal as members within the NSE... the only beneficiaries at the moment are the middlemen (the brokers), NSE & CMA coz they earn fees for doing little!!! The CMA & NSE get way too much per trade... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - *to paraphrase Warren Buffett*
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