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Lionel Andres Messi
Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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Alba wrote:@Nakujua
Media has never told me who the best player is. Comparing players is rather easy:
1. Abbas is the greatest goalkeeper Kenya ever produced. His penalty saving exploits led to numerous trophies for AFC Leopards and for Harambee stars. Others may have similar shot stopping skills but Abbas towers over everyone else for his impact. Media did not tell me that.
2. I think Oliech is the greatest striker Kenya has ever produced because of his individual attributes. In his prime before he was injury prone, he literally carried Harambee stars on his shoulders in a manner that no one else ever has. To date he is the Kenyan striker who thrived in a top tier European league
3. Roger Milla is the greatest striker Africa ever produced. Look at how he sliced and diced defenses at the world cup. He scored more world cup goals than any other African. he top-scored the AFCON several times. He broke into European leagues when it was almost impossible for Africans.
And Finally Pele is better than Maradona who is in turn better than Messi because
a. Pele won the world cup three times and scored crucial goals in crucial games including finals.
b. Pele Was a better passer: Look at the passes he delivered that led to goals in
the 1970 finals.
c. Was a better all round player: he scored with his head and with either foot
d. Maradona scored the greatest individual goal ever at a world cup.
e. Played for lower teams like Napoli and made them relevant and even led them to a league win.
f. Maradona was a world cup winner
g. Maradona carried an Argentina team that was relatively devoid of talent
Media did not tell me this. These are objective stats. The media never agrees on who is the best player so how can they tell me? @alba... As you praise both Pele and Maradona please don't forget that during their time, there was limited emphasis on defence. Nowadays the defenders have become much tighter. Personally I never used to have a lot of regards/respect for the mercurial Messi. Indeed I used to call him a midget even here in Wazua.... But after watching him keenly play in La Liga and also saw him do what he did to Boateng in CL semis, am persuaded that this guy is a genius. He also almost did a Boateng on James Milner when Barca played Man city. I doubt whether Pele or Maradona had the requisite skills to do a Boateng. The fact that Messi relocated to Spain at the tender age of 11yrs may partly explain why he never displays his genius while playing for his national team Argentina. Forget about the often stated fact that he plays alongside world class players at Barca, haka kamjamaa kako poa. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:........ or pogba is better than theo...... Wrong choice of example.  , sawa or pogba is better than iniesta
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:........ or pogba is better than theo...... Wrong choice of example. , sawa or pogba is better than iniesta A much better and reasonable example. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:........ or pogba is better than theo...... Wrong choice of example. , sawa or pogba is better than iniesta A much better and reasonable example.  thanks for pointing that out, by the way do you think Gianluigi Buffon is greater than Miroslav Klose - keeping in mind @Alba's measures for greatness
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:........ or pogba is better than theo...... Wrong choice of example. , sawa or pogba is better than iniesta A much better and reasonable example. thanks for pointing that out, by the way do you think Gianluigi Buffon is greater than Miroslav Klose - keeping in mind @Alba's measures for greatness ok but nakujua iniesta is better than pogba and messi is third rate everytime iniesta doesn't play Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:........ or pogba is better than theo...... Wrong choice of example. , sawa or pogba is better than iniesta A much better and reasonable example. thanks for pointing that out, by the way do you think Gianluigi Buffon is greater than Miroslav Klose - keeping in mind @Alba's measures for greatness Sisemi kitu..... As they say in the blue corner of Wazua, we can't compare apples with oranges... IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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alma wrote:nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:........ or pogba is better than theo...... Wrong choice of example. , sawa or pogba is better than iniesta A much better and reasonable example. thanks for pointing that out, by the way do you think Gianluigi Buffon is greater than Miroslav Klose - keeping in mind @Alba's measures for greatness ok but nakujua iniesta is better than pogba and messi is third rate everytime iniesta doesn't play He may not have ever carried his national team on his shoulders but surely this little genius has for a long time carried Barca literally on his shoulders. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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mwenza wrote:
@alba... As you praise both Pele and Maradona please don't forget that during
their time, there was limited emphasis on defence. Nowadays the defenders have become much tighter.
Personally I never used to have a lot of regards/respect for the mercurial Messi. Indeed I used to call him a midget even here in Wazua.... But after watching him keenly play in La Liga and also saw him do what he did to Boateng in CL semis, am persuaded that this guy is a genius. He also almost did a Boateng on James Milner when Barca played Man city. I doubt whether Pele or Maradona had the requisite skills to do a Boateng.
The fact that Messi relocated to Spain at the tender age of 11yrs may partly explain
why he never displays his genius while playing for his national team Argentina.
Forget about the often stated fact that he plays alongside world class players at Barca, haka kamjamaa kako poa.
But defences were ruthless when it came to fouling back then. Strikers were kicked and tripped endlessly and referee would wave play on. Maradona and Pele were especially victimized. Both lost their cool at the world cup. Maradona was red carded for retaliating. A featherweight chap like Messi would not have survived the 1980s. When Marco van Basten's career ended prematurely due to constantly being roughed up is when FIFA decided to clamp down on fouls.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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Alba wrote:mwenza wrote:
@alba... As you praise both Pele and Maradona please don't forget that during
their time, there was limited emphasis on defence. Nowadays the defenders have become much tighter.
Personally I never used to have a lot of regards/respect for the mercurial Messi. Indeed I used to call him a midget even here in Wazua.... But after watching him keenly play in La Liga and also saw him do what he did to Boateng in CL semis, am persuaded that this guy is a genius. He also almost did a Boateng on James Milner when Barca played Man city. I doubt whether Pele or Maradona had the requisite skills to do a Boateng.
The fact that Messi relocated to Spain at the tender age of 11yrs may partly explain
why he never displays his genius while playing for his national team Argentina.
Forget about the often stated fact that he plays alongside world class players at Barca, haka kamjamaa kako poa.
But defences were ruthless when it came to fouling back then. Strikers were kicked and tripped endlessly and referee would wave play on. Maradona and Pele were especially victimized. Both lost their cool at the world cup. Maradona was red carded for retaliating. A featherweight chap like Messi would not have survived the 1980s. When Marco van Basten's career ended prematurely due to constantly being roughed up is when FIFA decided to clamp down on fouls. True the defenders of yesteryears were brutal but were technically unaware and therefore extremely leaky. Ruthlessness is a very poor substitute for skills and lack of a footballing mind. In the modern game, breaching a well organized defence ( Chelsea for instance have been winning trophies by emphasizing on defence)'is not everybody's cup of tea. It may appear easy as you watch on TV but it takes very good players to breakdown the modern defenders. That's why when players like Messi seems to break defences with reckless abandon and without breaking a sweat, he surely has to have something special in him. Of coz Maradona was good but other than the second goal he scored against England at the WC ( and this is what Messi does week in, week out in la Liga) I never saw him make a world class defender sit on the deck inside his own six yard box in a crucial match. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Mwenza I believe you are dead wrong. Ruthless brutality is far more effective than an organized defence because for one thing, it scares strikers or it has a psychological impact.
At the 1962, world cup, Portugal kicked Pele literally every time he touched the ball. He got so angry that he lost his cool and played poorly. In the end he left injured and Portugal won.
In 1982, Maradona was being kicked so much. He lost his cool, retaliated and was red carded. Argentina lost that game.
The easiest way to silence a dangerous striker in those days was to just brutalize him. It often rendered players inneffective because they would be scared or they would leave the match injured.
This was applied especially in Africa including on the local scene. The best defenders were the likes of kina Mickey Weche who became known as "T9" because of how he kicked strikers.
Back then, cynical fouls and professional fouls were acceptable to referees. Messi would struggle to survive.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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Alba wrote:
...........The best defenders were the likes of kina Mickey Weche who became known as "T9" because of how he kicked strikers.
@Alba..... Thats a lie and you know it. Mickey "Makuku" Weche was nicknamed "T9" not because of how he used to kick strikers but rather because of how he used to legally disposses opponents of the ball with his customary two-footed tackle. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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Officiating was a bit lenient to defenders in the past. Some of the defenders like Spain's Andoni Goikoetxea were thugs looking for legs to kick. Weche was actually a clean player,the real dirty ones were the Gor duo of Isaiah Omondi and Swaleh Ochieng. Very difficult to compare players in different generations. Some defenders of yore like Oscar Ruggeri were very tactical. Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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kaka2za wrote:Officiating was a bit lenient to defenders in the past. Some of the defenders like Spain's Andoni Goikoetxea were thugs looking for legs to kick.
Weche was actually a clean player,the real dirty ones were the Gor duo of Isaiah Omondi and Swaleh Ochieng.
Very difficult to compare players in different generations. Some defenders of yore like Oscar Ruggeri were very tactical. The worst Kenyan defender when it came ending other players careers was Apollo Oketch of Kenya Breweries. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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kaka2za wrote:Officiating was a bit lenient to defenders in the past. Some of the defenders like Spain's Andoni Goikoetxea were thugs looking for legs to kick.
Weche was actually a clean player,the real dirty ones were the Gor duo of Isaiah Omondi and Swaleh Ochieng.
Very difficult to compare players in different generations. Some defenders of yore like Oscar Ruggeri were very tactical. Hapo sawa Kabisa! IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Mentioning Weche as a clean player made me laugh so hard that I fell off my chair. The T9 is a African wild dog that is known to relentlessly attack domestic animals with vicious bites. A player cannot be called T9 if he is clean. Here is a video of Kenya vs Senegal in 1992. At the 50 second mark, Weche executes a rough tackle on Malick Fall of Senegal. That kinda professional foul was very typical of Weche. He did it without batting an eyelid.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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I agree with you on Martin Ochieng. Arieno Papa was another rough one
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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Alba wrote:I agree with you on Martin Ochieng. Arieno Papa was another rough one Arieno could not pass the ball! His specialty was hoofing the ball clear mostly to the stands. I watched T9 quite often and he didn't strike as a rough player. He was more renown for some clever antics like the memorable trap and flick against Sammy Onyango ' Jogoo' Apollo Oketch was a thug masquerading as a footballer. I think he is the guy who messed AFC's David Akoi's dental formula Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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kaka2za wrote:Alba wrote:I agree with you on Martin Ochieng. Arieno Papa was another rough one Arieno could not pass the ball! His specialty was hoofing the ball clear mostly to the stands.I watched T9 quite often and he didn't strike as a rough player. He was more renown for some clever antics like the memorable trap and flick against Sammy Onyango ' Jogoo' Apollo Oketch was a thug masquerading as a footballer. I think he is the guy who messed AFC's David Akoi's dental formula AFC of that era were not into passing at all. It was all long balls. So Arieno fit right in.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Look at the rugby tackles that used to be executed on Pele. In those days, these were not even worth a yellow card so defenders would just foul him all day.
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