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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;" So it is possible that if our atheist friend hamburglar is doing good works that then he is saved? One has to believe first. Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved?
And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved?
The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being.
I have not asked from what they were saved. Neither have I asked why you need to be saved. All I am asking is whether you believe Allah saves and if you are saved. But from your rhetorical questions you seem to imply whereas it is true that Allah saved others (from whatever), you do not believe that Allah can save you. Unless you have anything to add, I will end my questions to you and accept your answer. I turn to Alphdoti for he has not given any indication if he believes Allah or not. Save from what???????????????????????????????? @Muriel I think you need a therapist. Its coming to two years your obsession with this "saving business" Please dont let it consume you. Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...
No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.
I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful
Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question. Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,, What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save? Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved? The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved? And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved? The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being. Yahweh saved the Israelites from enslavement. Allah saved his Christ from death. Yahweh is a different God from Allah and his messiah. Can Allah save himself from Yahweh?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;" So it is possible that if our atheist friend hamburglar is doing good works that then he is saved? One has to believe first. believe...believe in what/who??? How different is this from the new testament's you MUST believe for your good deeds to count? Because that's what Paul says and James reinforces. Your belief in God should lead to good works
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved?
And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved?
The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being.
I have not asked from what they were saved. Neither have I asked why you need to be saved. All I am asking is whether you believe Allah saves and if you are saved. But from your rhetorical questions you seem to imply whereas it is true that Allah saved others (from whatever), you do not believe that Allah can save you. Unless you have anything to add, I will end my questions to you and accept your answer. I turn to Alphdoti for he has not given any indication if he believes Allah or not. Save from what???????????????????????????????? @Muriel I think you need a therapist. Its coming to two years your obsession with this "saving business" Please dont let it consume you. ad hominem, the fallacy. You are good at it. It is the only thing you can now add. You now attack my person having seen the futility and utter fickleness of your assertions. You had your chance, Guru. I am yet to find a muslim who can answer this question. Even one. My search continues. Therapy, you call it, '2 years' down the line ,,,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Quote:And I repeat, the Almighty will do with me whatever He wills, whenever He wills and however He wills...  he can decide to save man by becoming man and dying on a cross?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:And I repeat, the Almighty will do with me whatever He wills, whenever He wills and however He wills... he can decide to save man by becoming man and dying on a cross? 1. Allah is a complicated fellow. Schizophrenic even. 2. Or perhaps Mohammed did not interlink and cross check his thoughts to ensure harmony with the other sections - he was illiterate after all. 3. Or perhaps the writers wrote their own things that are now annoying their followers when called out.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...
No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.
I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful
Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question. Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,, What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save? Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved? The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved? And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved? The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being. Yahweh saved the Israelites from enslavement. Allah saved his Christ from death. Yahweh is a different God from Allah and his messiah. Can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:And I repeat, the Almighty will do with me whatever He wills, whenever He wills and however He wills... he can decide to save man by becoming man and dying on a cross? Why does the Almighty need to go through all that? If he saved man by dying on the cross then why does the best of Christians still sin and can still go to hell? Or are you one of those who think they are already preforgiven with the blood of "Christ" aka Judas Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved?
And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved?
The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being.
I have not asked from what they were saved. Neither have I asked why you need to be saved. All I am asking is whether you believe Allah saves and if you are saved. But from your rhetorical questions you seem to imply whereas it is true that Allah saved others (from whatever), you do not believe that Allah can save you. Unless you have anything to add, I will end my questions to you and accept your answer. I turn to Alphdoti for he has not given any indication if he believes Allah or not. Save from what???????????????????????????????? @Muriel I think you need a therapist. Its coming to two years your obsession with this "saving business" Please dont let it consume you. ad hominem, the fallacy. You are good at it. It is the only thing you can now add. You now attack my person having seen the futility and utter fickleness of your assertions. You had your chance, Guru. I am yet to find a muslim who can answer this question. Even one. My search continues. Therapy, you call it, '2 years' down the line ,,, There is a prayer that Christians love and is acceptable to Muslims because of its montheistic nature... There is this part where you say "lead us not into temptation....." The Almighty only saves by guiding you on the straight path and leading you not into temptation For example the temptation to worship His messenger  Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/27/2010 Posts: 266 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;" So it is possible that if our atheist friend hamburglar is doing good works that then he is saved? He will be better than "saved". In fact he will have earned himself a place in Heaven. Just ask Pope Francis.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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guru267 wrote:¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...
No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.
I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful
Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question. Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,, What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save? Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved? The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved? And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved? The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being. Yahweh saved the Israelites from enslavement. Allah saved his Christ from death. Yahweh is a different God from Allah and his messiah. Can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah Yahweh has a son = Allah has a son If you disagree,can Allah save himself from Yahweh?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...
No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.
I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful
Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question. Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,, What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save? Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved? The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved? And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved? The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being. Yahweh saved the Israelites from enslavement. Allah saved his Christ from death. Yahweh is a different God from Allah and his messiah. Can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah Yahweh has a son = Allah has a son If you disagree,can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Yahweh's/Allahs "sons" are His unique creations and are not begotten as represented by the pagan Paul. Adam is His unique creation/son = luke 3:38 Angels are His unique creations/sons = job 2:1 Christ is His unique creation/son = John 10:36 Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:And I repeat, the Almighty will do with me whatever He wills, whenever He wills and however He wills... he can decide to save man by becoming man and dying on a cross? Why does the Almighty need to go through all that? Because He is the Almighty? His ways are above our ways? Should we then following your reasoning ask why God can't end suffering and sin like the atheists ask?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:And I repeat, the Almighty will do with me whatever He wills, whenever He wills and however He wills... he can decide to save man by becoming man and dying on a cross? Why does the Almighty need to go through all that? Because He is the Almighty? His ways are above our ways? Should we then following your reasoning ask why God can't end suffering and sin like the atheists ask? But you claim the blood of "Christ" aka Judas saved the world... My question is how??? Or do you just say it for the sake of saying?? I would only believe Jehovah became a man only and only if the man himself had explicitly said the below. 1. That he is the creator of the heavens and the earth. 2. That he is Almighty. 3. That he is worthy of worship. 4. That he is all knowing. Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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guru267 wrote:¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:
Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah
Yahweh has a son = Allah has a son If you disagree,can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Yahweh's/Allahs "sons" are His unique creations and are not begotten as represented by the pagan Paul. Adam is His unique creation/son = luke 3:38 Angels are His unique creations/sons = job 2:1 Christ is His unique creation/son = John 10:36 Yahweh is not Allah - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=670116#post670116
The only recourse left to you is to call Paul a pagan - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=659177#post659177
You are almost committing shirk by saying Yahweh=Allah and at the same time trying to convince @Lolest they are different beings. The question still stands, can Allah save himself from Yahweh?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:
Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah
Yahweh has a son = Allah has a son If you disagree,can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Yahweh's/Allahs "sons" are His unique creations and are not begotten as represented by the pagan Paul. Adam is His unique creation/son = luke 3:38 Angels are His unique creations/sons = job 2:1 Christ is His unique creation/son = John 10:36 Yahweh is not Allah - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=670116#post670116
The only recourse left to you is to call Paul a pagan - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=659177#post659177
You are almost committing shirk by saying Yahweh=Allah and at the same time trying to convince @Lolest they are different beings. The question still stands, can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Why do you deny that "son" means "unique creation"? Did Christ tell you he was begotten? Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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guru267 wrote:¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:
Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah
Yahweh has a son = Allah has a son If you disagree,can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Yahweh's/Allahs "sons" are His unique creations and are not begotten as represented by the pagan Paul. Adam is His unique creation/son = luke 3:38 Angels are His unique creations/sons = job 2:1 Christ is His unique creation/son = John 10:36 Yahweh is not Allah - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=670116#post670116
The only recourse left to you is to call Paul a pagan - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=659177#post659177
You are almost committing shirk by saying Yahweh=Allah and at the same time trying to convince @Lolest they are different beings. The question still stands, can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Why do you deny that "son" means "unique creation"? Did Christ tell you he was begotten? Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah Did Yahweh say He is Allah? Unique creation is a feeble attempt not to commit shirk. The Quran is clear Allah has no son(daughters is debatable).Yahweh does. They are not the same being. Can Allah save himself from Yahweh?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:¿ wrote:guru267 wrote:
Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah
Yahweh has a son = Allah has a son If you disagree,can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Yahweh's/Allahs "sons" are His unique creations and are not begotten as represented by the pagan Paul. Adam is His unique creation/son = luke 3:38 Angels are His unique creations/sons = job 2:1 Christ is His unique creation/son = John 10:36 Yahweh is not Allah - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=670116#post670116
The only recourse left to you is to call Paul a pagan - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=659177#post659177
You are almost committing shirk by saying Yahweh=Allah and at the same time trying to convince @Lolest they are different beings. The question still stands, can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Why do you deny that "son" means "unique creation"? Did Christ tell you he was begotten? Allah=Yahweh=Jehovah Did Yahweh say He is Allah? Unique creation is a feeble attempt not to commit shirk. The Quran is clear Allah has no son(daughters is debatable).Yahweh does. They are not the same being. Can Allah save himself from Yahweh? Yahweh is Hebrew, Allah is Arabic, Ngai is Kikuyu, Mungu is Swahili. Allah has not BEGOTTEN son but he has unique creations who the bible refers to as sons aka Adam, the angels and Christ. Yahweh=Allah=Jehovah Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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