Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,301 Location: kenya
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USMN wrote:Hello Wazua Members, Allow me to put in a few facts on this matter IMO: F1. Unaitas has one class of shares. Every member has to own at least the minimum 100 shares, (Max 1M) at Ksh 10 per share. The Shares are not categorized. The shares are not withdrawable but can be transferred to another member, which is in line with Sacco Regulations. Shareholders do earn dividends on the shares annually. To unlock the shareholders wealth, Unaitas wanted to list the shares on the GEMs segment on the NSE (See: http://bit.ly/1Rjqgz6 ) However, the Sacco model where shares continuously sell at the branch(es) (You cannot access services like savings and credit, without being a shareholder in a Sacco) and then at the Bourse is against CMA Regulations. Thus, Unaitas shelved the listing plans (See: http://bit.ly/1RjrA56 ), re-strategized (2014/18) and came up with a plan to unlock the shareholders wealth by transitioning into banking, which will enable them offer a greater allay of services to their members/customers and also allow them to list on the NSE. F2. There was a bonus issue for shareholders from 2009 backwards. These were the shareholders who held shares before the opening of the bond (Notice that most Saccos have a common bond, e.g. A Sacco for government employees, Another for Company XYZ and such) to allow all Kenyans to join Unaitas. The shareholders who held the shares before the opening of the bond must have asked this question, We have built this organization to where it has come, now that we are opening the bond so that everyone who comes gains from the good foundation we have toiled to lay down, what is in it for us? And I guess in appreciation, of their pioneering spirit, they were given a bonus. Do they expect another bonus? I’d say, certainly not. F3. Unaitas has been in existence for more than two decades since its inception in 1993 then as a Tea Farmers Sacco. Today, it has 19 Branches and growing. You may have known them when they were Muramati. It is a brand that began humbly and has grown to the Unaitas we know today. F4. From the little I know of their 2014-2015 Strategic Plan, it stipulates transformation into banking (sometimes in 2016 which is next year) and the listing of their shares on NSE in 2018. F5. Unaitas is regulated by SASRA (Sacco Society Regulatory Authority) Have a Look at: THE SACCO SOCIETIES (DEPOSIT―TAKING SACCO BUSINESS) REGULATIONS, 2010 > http://bit.ly/1AqFSfZ IMO, Unaitas is a brand to watch, whether as a shareholder or as a spectator, you Good. The judge has read the verdict. Prosecutors , defense attorney and the prison warden can now cage the " suspect" .No parole ever or probation . Case closed.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/14/2014 Posts: 289 Location: nairobi
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Mainat wrote:PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that
you have talked. like the whole supreme council of elders I find satisfaction in owning great business,not trading them
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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Mainat wrote:PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that
I agree with @mainat UNAITAS can still give the founders bonus after bonus. If they did in 2013 what prevents them from doing it in future. History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,301 Location: kenya
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BGL wrote:Mainat wrote:PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that
I agree with @mainat UNAITAS can still give the founders bonus after bonus. If they did in 2013 what prevents them from doing it in future. @BGL I agree they deserve it since they were like the discoverers of the company .They can't be rewarded no other ways apart from bonuses .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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BGL wrote:Mainat wrote:PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that
I agree with @mainat UNAITAS can still give the founders bonus after bonus. If they did in 2013 what prevents them from doing it in future. We need a law for assurance. Can SASRA help in this? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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USMN wrote:Hello Wazua Members, Allow me to put in a few facts on this matter IMO: F1. Unaitas has one class of shares. Every member has to own at least the minimum 100 shares, (Max 1M) at Ksh 10 per share. The Shares are not categorized. The shares are not withdrawable but can be transferred to another member, which is in line with Sacco Regulations. Shareholders do earn dividends on the shares annually. To unlock the shareholders wealth, Unaitas wanted to list the shares on the GEMs segment on the NSE (See: http://bit.ly/1Rjqgz6 ) However, the Sacco model where shares continuously sell at the branch(es) (You cannot access services like savings and credit, without being a shareholder in a Sacco) and then at the Bourse is against CMA Regulations. Thus, Unaitas shelved the listing plans (See: http://bit.ly/1RjrA56 ), re-strategized (2014/18) and came up with a plan to unlock the shareholders wealth by transitioning into banking, which will enable them offer a greater allay of services to their members/customers and also allow them to list on the NSE. F2. There was a bonus issue for shareholders from 2009 backwards. These were the shareholders who held shares before the opening of the bond (Notice that most Saccos have a common bond, e.g. A Sacco for government employees, Another for Company XYZ and such) to allow all Kenyans to join Unaitas. The shareholders who held the shares before the opening of the bond must have asked this question, We have built this organization to where it has come, now that we are opening the bond so that everyone who comes gains from the good foundation we have toiled to lay down, what is in it for us? And I guess in appreciation, of their pioneering spirit, they were given a bonus. Do they expect another bonus? I’d say, certainly not. F3. Unaitas has been in existence for more than two decades since its inception in 1993 then as a Tea Farmers Sacco. Today, it has 19 Branches and growing. You may have known them when they were Muramati. It is a brand that began humbly and has grown to the Unaitas we know today. F4. From the little I know of their 2014-2015 Strategic Plan, it stipulates transformation into banking (sometimes in 2016 which is next year) and the listing of their shares on NSE in 2018. F5. Unaitas is regulated by SASRA (Sacco Society Regulatory Authority) Have a Look at: THE SACCO SOCIETIES (DEPOSIT―TAKING SACCO BUSINESS) REGULATIONS, 2010 > http://bit.ly/1AqFSfZ IMO, Unaitas is a brand to watch, whether as a shareholder or as a spectator, you Is this the Unaitas official wazua handle? Unaitas Sacco MaNagement?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,301 Location: kenya
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Lolest! wrote:USMN wrote:Hello Wazua Members, Allow me to put in a few facts on this matter IMO: F1. Unaitas has one class of shares. Every member has to own at least the minimum 100 shares, (Max 1M) at Ksh 10 per share. The Shares are not categorized. The shares are not withdrawable but can be transferred to another member, which is in line with Sacco Regulations. Shareholders do earn dividends on the shares annually. To unlock the shareholders wealth, Unaitas wanted to list the shares on the GEMs segment on the NSE (See: http://bit.ly/1Rjqgz6 ) However, the Sacco model where shares continuously sell at the branch(es) (You cannot access services like savings and credit, without being a shareholder in a Sacco) and then at the Bourse is against CMA Regulations. Thus, Unaitas shelved the listing plans (See: http://bit.ly/1RjrA56 ), re-strategized (2014/18) and came up with a plan to unlock the shareholders wealth by transitioning into banking, which will enable them offer a greater allay of services to their members/customers and also allow them to list on the NSE. F2. There was a bonus issue for shareholders from 2009 backwards. These were the shareholders who held shares before the opening of the bond (Notice that most Saccos have a common bond, e.g. A Sacco for government employees, Another for Company XYZ and such) to allow all Kenyans to join Unaitas. The shareholders who held the shares before the opening of the bond must have asked this question, We have built this organization to where it has come, now that we are opening the bond so that everyone who comes gains from the good foundation we have toiled to lay down, what is in it for us? And I guess in appreciation, of their pioneering spirit, they were given a bonus. Do they expect another bonus? I’d say, certainly not. F3. Unaitas has been in existence for more than two decades since its inception in 1993 then as a Tea Farmers Sacco. Today, it has 19 Branches and growing. You may have known them when they were Muramati. It is a brand that began humbly and has grown to the Unaitas we know today. F4. From the little I know of their 2014-2015 Strategic Plan, it stipulates transformation into banking (sometimes in 2016 which is next year) and the listing of their shares on NSE in 2018. F5. Unaitas is regulated by SASRA (Sacco Society Regulatory Authority) Have a Look at: THE SACCO SOCIETIES (DEPOSIT―TAKING SACCO BUSINESS) REGULATIONS, 2010 > http://bit.ly/1AqFSfZ IMO, Unaitas is a brand to watch, whether as a shareholder or as a spectator, you Is this the Unaitas official wazua handle? Unaitas Sacco MaNagement? At this point i don' care who the author is. I focus on my guts and facts under laid and looks satisfactory
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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enyands wrote:BGL wrote:Mainat wrote:PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that
I agree with @mainat UNAITAS can still give the founders bonus after bonus. If they did in 2013 what prevents them from doing it in future. @BGL I agree they deserve it since they were like the discoverers of the company .They can't be rewarded no other ways apart from bonuses . They deserve what??? They were getting dividends weren't they? They already got their bonus!!! And if they were very comfortable, they would never have come for your money! They are not doing you any favours. They are using your money to make money and then you get something out of it. Old money was made using old money and everyone got their dividends. New money is being made using new + old money. Mambo ya they deserve it hakuna hapa. Just like at the NSE. I buy shares today we are equal with you who bought yours 15 years ago. You have eaten your dividends for 15 years and now we are equal. We start the rest of the journey together. Tweets are not a binding agreement as most have noted here. There should be a legally binding undertaking by Unaitas!!! They selectively gave bonus shares once. They can do it again. And again. And remember the people making those decisions are "Founder Members". Those who joined between 2009 - 2013, were they warned/informed that pre 2009 shareholders will get bonus shares. And you want to believe the hogwash that the decision to give bonus shares was made in 2009 and implemented in 2013. You either have to be very naive to believe that or Unaitas must be the least efficient company ever. 4 years to implement a bonus issue decision??? Who believes that??? If this guys are straight forward, they should have issued the bonus shares before inviting the public. Hapa iko shida. The worst might never materialize but the conditions are there for it to happen. If they can reward "founder members" four years later, what makes you think they can't do it again 6 years later, 8 years later..... What makes you think 4 years is the cut off? And if they had not informed you about the "pending" bonus shares when you got in, what else do you think they have not told you. This loophole MUST be sealed. And not on twitter!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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USMN wrote: And I guess in appreciation, of their pioneering spirit, they were given a bonus. Do they expect another bonus? I’d say, certainly not.
You guys have learnt English for more than 12 years minimum. The highlighted phrase is not there by accident. Also notice the issue is not "will they be given another bonus". It is "do they expect". Of course they can be given a bonus even if they don't expect one. That has happened to most Wazuans in other companies/stocks! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/14/2011 Posts: 857 Location: nairobi
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MaichBlack wrote:enyands wrote:BGL wrote:Mainat wrote:PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that
I agree with @mainat UNAITAS can still give the founders bonus after bonus. If they did in 2013 what prevents them from doing it in future. @BGL I agree they deserve it since they were like the discoverers of the company .They can't be rewarded no other ways apart from bonuses . They deserve what??? They were getting dividends weren't they? They already got their bonus!!! And if they were very comfortable, they would never have come for your money! They are not doing you any favours. They are using your money to make money and them you get something out of it. Old money was made using old money and everyone got their dividends. New money is being made using new + old money. Mambo ya they deserve it hakuna hapa. Just like at the NSE. I buy shares today we are equal with you who bought yours 15 years ago. You have eaten your dividends for 15 years and now we are equal. We start the rest of the journey together. Tweets are not a binding agreement as most have noted here. There should be a legally binding undertaking by Unaitas!!! They selectively gave bonus shares once. They can do it again. And again. And remember the people making those decisions are "Founder Members". Those who joined between 2009 - 2013, were they warned/informed that pre 2009 shareholders will get bonus shares. And you want to believe the hogwash that the decision to give bonus shares was made in 2009 and implemented in 2013. You either have to be very naive to believe that or Unaitas must be the least efficient company ever. 4 years to implement a bonus issue decision??? Who believes that??? If this guys are straight forward, they should have issued the bonus shares before inviting the public. Hapa iko shida. The worst might never materialize but the conditions are there for it to. If the can reward "founder members" four years later, what makes you think they can't do it again 6 years later, 8 years later..... What makes you think 4 years is the cut off? And if they had not informed you again bout the bonus shares when you got in, what else do you think they have not told you. This loophole MUST be sealed. And not on twitter!!! I fully agree with your insight and clarity of thought. Now my question is, what is the best forum to resolve this? I am thinking there is need to attend the next AGM, fo those who are members /will be members by then ( i cannot think of another forum) and have this addressed How else can this concern be addressed? What were the shareholder numbers and capital pre 2009? would those who joined post 2009 be able to carry the day if it take to voting to resolve no special treatment of founder members? what does SASRA say about this?
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/14/2011 Posts: 857 Location: nairobi
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MaichBlack wrote:enyands wrote:BGL wrote:Mainat wrote:PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that
I agree with @mainat UNAITAS can still give the founders bonus after bonus. If they did in 2013 what prevents them from doing it in future. @BGL I agree they deserve it since they were like the discoverers of the company .They can't be rewarded no other ways apart from bonuses . They deserve what??? They were getting dividends weren't they? They already got their bonus!!! And if they were very comfortable, they would never have come for your money! They are not doing you any favours. They are using your money to make money and them you get something out of it. Old money was made using old money and everyone got their dividends. New money is being made using new + old money. Mambo ya they deserve it hakuna hapa. Just like at the NSE. I buy shares today we are equal with you who bought yours 15 years ago. You have eaten your dividends for 15 years and now we are equal. We start the rest of the journey together. Tweets are not a binding agreement as most have noted here. There should be a legally binding undertaking by Unaitas!!! They selectively gave bonus shares once. They can do it again. And again. And remember the people making those decisions are "Founder Members". Those who joined between 2009 - 2013, were they warned/informed that pre 2009 shareholders will get bonus shares. And you want to believe the hogwash that the decision to give bonus shares was made in 2009 and implemented in 2013. You either have to be very naive to believe that or Unaitas must be the least efficient company ever. 4 years to implement a bonus issue decision??? Who believes that??? If this guys are straight forward, they should have issued the bonus shares before inviting the public. Hapa iko shida. The worst might never materialize but the conditions are there for it to. If the can reward "founder members" four years later, what makes you think they can't do it again 6 years later, 8 years later..... What makes you think 4 years is the cut off? And if they had not informed you again bout the bonus shares when you got in, what else do you think they have not told you. This loophole MUST be sealed. And not on twitter!!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/14/2011 Posts: 857 Location: nairobi
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MaichBlack wrote:enyands wrote:BGL wrote:Mainat wrote:PS: nothing stops Unaitas from rewarding these so-called founders in future. Recall Coop before it undertook its IPO. We should be looking for a legal undertaking by Unaitas that all shareholders have the same rank otherwise twirra manenos are just that
I agree with @mainat UNAITAS can still give the founders bonus after bonus. If they did in 2013 what prevents them from doing it in future. @BGL I agree they deserve it since they were like the discoverers of the company .They can't be rewarded no other ways apart from bonuses . They deserve what??? They were getting dividends weren't they? They already got their bonus!!! And if they were very comfortable, they would never have come for your money! They are not doing you any favours. They are using your money to make money and them you get something out of it. Old money was made using old money and everyone got their dividends. New money is being made using new + old money. Mambo ya they deserve it hakuna hapa. Just like at the NSE. I buy shares today we are equal with you who bought yours 15 years ago. You have eaten your dividends for 15 years and now we are equal. We start the rest of the journey together. Tweets are not a binding agreement as most have noted here. There should be a legally binding undertaking by Unaitas!!! They selectively gave bonus shares once. They can do it again. And again. And remember the people making those decisions are "Founder Members". Those who joined between 2009 - 2013, were they warned/informed that pre 2009 shareholders will get bonus shares. And you want to believe the hogwash that the decision to give bonus shares was made in 2009 and implemented in 2013. You either have to be very naive to believe that or Unaitas must be the least efficient company ever. 4 years to implement a bonus issue decision??? Who believes that??? If this guys are straight forward, they should have issued the bonus shares before inviting the public. Hapa iko shida. The worst might never materialize but the conditions are there for it to. If the can reward "founder members" four years later, what makes you think they can't do it again 6 years later, 8 years later..... What makes you think 4 years is the cut off? And if they had not informed you again bout the bonus shares when you got in, what else do you think they have not told you. This loophole MUST be sealed. And not on twitter!!! I fully agree with your insight and clarity of thought. Now my question is, what is the best forum to resolve this? I am thinking there is need to attend the next AGM, fo those who are members /will be members by then ( i cannot think of another forum) and have this addressed How else can this concern be addressed? What were the shareholder numbers and capital pre 2009? would those who joined post 2009 be able to carry the day if it take to voting to resolve no special treatment of founder members? what does SASRA say about this?
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/14/2014 Posts: 289 Location: nairobi
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in short we got shafted. I find satisfaction in owning great business,not trading them
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/14/2014 Posts: 289 Location: nairobi
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what would stop these. founder members from giving themselves a bonus of say 20 shares for every. share held in 2009? I find satisfaction in owning great business,not trading them
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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target1360 wrote:in short we got shafted. It still can be reversed or preempted by Unaitas legally binding itself not to do it. But fellows who had bought shares as far back as 2009 - 2013 surprise me!!! That should have be a very hot debate issue at the AGM!!! With the proper people and debate even the original bonus would have had a problem going through if it was not clearly articulated before they invited the public! You can't wake up one day and say "by the way, we are rewarding those who were there before 2009 - which is four years ago!". At THE VERY LEAST shareholders should have got a legally binding undertaking that that was not going to happen again! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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target1360 wrote:what would stop these. founder members from giving themselves a bonus of say 20 shares for every. share held in 2009?
They might actually do it! Believe me. Saccos work in a very funny way. When management knows something is contentious, there is no balloting - as in casting of ballots. One person proposes and another one seconds and the rest of you can go to hell!!! It is extremely easy for the minority to f@#k the majority over in a Sacco setting. Anyone who has ever been to a Sacco's AGM knows this!!! And money corrupts! Power corrupts!!! Now combine money and power!! There is every chance there are a couple of fellows who are plotting how they can become the next James Mwangi - By whatever means necessary! Even if it means 20 bonus shares for every share held by the "Very Original Founder Members". And that is why there is a lot of murder in Saccos and land buying companies. There is ALWAYS a person or a group of people planning how they will shaft the rest. Guys, don't bury your heads in the sand. Don't imagine Unaitas is the only institution run by angels in the world. You need the law on your side!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
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Remember money is a finite resource like any other so for you to get rich you need a bigger share than the other guy.
And now that we are here i remember the Gova split kenya geothermal co from kengen a quoted Co and no one talked
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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They have annual delegates meetings not annual general meetings. Guess who the delegates are? History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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