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Shocking police story
D32
#91 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 3:52:23 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 808
murchr wrote:
MatataMingi wrote:
TNT wrote:
murchr wrote:
TNT wrote:
Swenani wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
murchr wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
murchr wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
murchr wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking


Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment.



Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief...


Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job.

I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act?


You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side.



Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together!



I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with?


Its not insane, when the army goes to war, their main aim is to neutralize the enemy no negotiations etc so for your example, they would just bomb the palace and bring down the thing with whoever was inside.

This case, there were four criminals holding hostages, that's a police job. The armies way of doing things would have been to bring down the whole hostel but that was not ideal.

I'll give you examples. Now forget the movies...When the US army aims at targets, they use drones and missiles to neutralize their targets, when they get to the ground, they use hand grenades and bombs to neutralize targets right? Would you have wished for that in this situation? When they are sent to hostage situations...they use navy seals who are part of United States Special Operations Command. A more sophisticated form of our RECCE that is actually drawn from the military. Our military doesn't have that; from what we know our special combat mission is drawn from the GSU not the military.

And if you want to further understand the KDF, just look at their kiswahili descriptions


A few facts that you got wrong:

1) Garissa attack was not a hostage situation. It was a massacre, so there were no negotiations going on since the terrorists were not asking for a chopper and a buss with a tank full of gas. Instead, they were just having a field day butchering and executing students as our army was pretending to secure the perimeter.

2) Modern warfare is essentially Close Quarter Combat. In other words, modern armies generally fight in an urban setting and so it is vital for them to be well versed in CQB/CQC. When you say our army is incapable of fighting Close Quarter Combat, you are actually saying that our army is handicapped, which is not a compliment as may think but a serious flaw.

3) Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably heard of a bomb shelter. Bombing a building does not necessarily mean job done. In other words, the only way to ensure the warlord in the palace is truly dead is to send soldiers in their to confirm ala Osama Bin Laden. That's the reason why the US Special Forces decided to send real soldiers for that mission instead of firing a SCUD missile from the comfort of Washington.

4) Since you've referred extensively to the US Army consider this: every division of the US Army has an elite team well-versed in all forms of warfare, from Guerilla warfare to Close Quater Combat to Assassination. For instance, instead of the relying on the US Marine famous SEAL 6, the US Army trained their own team of Special Forces. Similarly, the Kenyan Army has it's own team of Special Forces that should actually be much better than RECCe but unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case.

All this talk of the Kenyan Army is not to do this or that is bullcrap. If indeed it is true, then you should be seriously worried because it means our army is so one-dimensional.


@ TNT. So true. I can't believe people can be so naive.


You are all yapping from an emotional & ignorant point of view. But if it suits you well and good. Lets wait for the next attack and make sure you call the army


In Garissa, KDF should have done what this civilian guy Abdul Haji and others (police and civilians) did during Westgate.

Watch the interview embedded after the pictures.

http://www.nydailynews.c...sacre-article-1.1471773









The interview below:

They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
Muriel
#92 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 8:48:04 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
D32 wrote:
murchr wrote:
MatataMingi wrote:
TNT wrote:
murchr wrote:
TNT wrote:
Swenani wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
murchr wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
murchr wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
murchr wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking


Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment.



Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief...


Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job.

I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act?


You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side.



Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together!



I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with?


Its not insane, when the army goes to war, their main aim is to neutralize the enemy no negotiations etc so for your example, they would just bomb the palace and bring down the thing with whoever was inside.

This case, there were four criminals holding hostages, that's a police job. The armies way of doing things would have been to bring down the whole hostel but that was not ideal.

I'll give you examples. Now forget the movies...When the US army aims at targets, they use drones and missiles to neutralize their targets, when they get to the ground, they use hand grenades and bombs to neutralize targets right? Would you have wished for that in this situation? When they are sent to hostage situations...they use navy seals who are part of United States Special Operations Command. A more sophisticated form of our RECCE that is actually drawn from the military. Our military doesn't have that; from what we know our special combat mission is drawn from the GSU not the military.

And if you want to further understand the KDF, just look at their kiswahili descriptions


A few facts that you got wrong:

1) Garissa attack was not a hostage situation. It was a massacre, so there were no negotiations going on since the terrorists were not asking for a chopper and a buss with a tank full of gas. Instead, they were just having a field day butchering and executing students as our army was pretending to secure the perimeter.

2) Modern warfare is essentially Close Quarter Combat. In other words, modern armies generally fight in an urban setting and so it is vital for them to be well versed in CQB/CQC. When you say our army is incapable of fighting Close Quarter Combat, you are actually saying that our army is handicapped, which is not a compliment as may think but a serious flaw.

3) Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably heard of a bomb shelter. Bombing a building does not necessarily mean job done. In other words, the only way to ensure the warlord in the palace is truly dead is to send soldiers in their to confirm ala Osama Bin Laden. That's the reason why the US Special Forces decided to send real soldiers for that mission instead of firing a SCUD missile from the comfort of Washington.

4) Since you've referred extensively to the US Army consider this: every division of the US Army has an elite team well-versed in all forms of warfare, from Guerilla warfare to Close Quater Combat to Assassination. For instance, instead of the relying on the US Marine famous SEAL 6, the US Army trained their own team of Special Forces. Similarly, the Kenyan Army has it's own team of Special Forces that should actually be much better than RECCe but unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case.

All this talk of the Kenyan Army is not to do this or that is bullcrap. If indeed it is true, then you should be seriously worried because it means our army is so one-dimensional.


@ TNT. So true. I can't believe people can be so naive.


You are all yapping from an emotional & ignorant point of view. But if it suits you well and good. Lets wait for the next attack and make sure you call the army


In Garissa, KDF should have done what this civilian guy Abdul Haji and others (police and civilians) did during Westgate.

Watch the interview embedded after the pictures.

http://www.nydailynews.c...sacre-article-1.1471773









The interview below:




Yes, D32.

Its hard to know what kdf want.

In Westgate where they were last to arrive they wanted, and took over, everything. And ruined everything.

In Garissa where they were first to arrive they did not want, or take over, anything. And ruined everything.

What do they want? Apart from ruining everything?
jaggernaut
#93 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 10:05:44 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
These two are lucky to be alive. How were those pistols going to confront terrorist AK47s?

Obi 1 Kanobi
#94 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 10:52:55 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
jaggernaut wrote:
These two are lucky to be alive. How were those pistols going to confront terrorist AK47s?



A pistol is more precise than an AK47. You really just need one clean shot.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
whiteowl
#95 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 12:54:48 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/16/2014
Posts: 1,420
Location: Bohemian Grove
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
These two are lucky to be alive. How were those pistols going to confront terrorist AK47s?



A pistol is more precise than an AK47. You really just need one clean shot.

As Abdul Haji said,A gun is a gun,the only thing that matters is how good you are with it.
mkeiy
#96 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 3:54:38 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:


Yes, D32.

Its hard to know what kdf want.

In Westgate where they were last to arrive they wanted, and took over, everything. And ruined everything.

In Garissa where they were first to arrive they did not want, or take over, anything. And ruined everything.

What do they want? Apart from ruining everything?




I think after Westgate, where they got themselves involved and messed the operation big time including friendly fire against Recce squad.

They were "barred" from getting engaged in local/civil operations. After Westgate, everyone complained about their involvement, they might have been heeding those calls.

That's my THINKING. I could be wrong, but then again, i could be , , , ,
Muriel
#97 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 4:32:44 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
mkeiy wrote:
Muriel wrote:


Yes, D32.

Its hard to know what kdf want.

In Westgate where they were last to arrive they wanted, and took over, everything. And ruined everything.

In Garissa where they were first to arrive they did not want, or take over, anything. And ruined everything.

What do they want? Apart from ruining everything?




I think after Westgate, where they got themselves involved and messed the operation big time including friendly fire against Recce squad.

They were "barred" from getting engaged in local/civil operations. After Westgate, everyone complained about their involvement, they might have been heeding those calls.

That's my THINKING. I could be wrong, but then again, i could be , , , ,


Kufura. Pouting. Sulking.

NKT.
Coolio
#98 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 5:28:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/28/2008
Posts: 2,276
Location: Kibish
whiteowl wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
These two are lucky to be alive. How were those pistols going to confront terrorist AK47s?



A pistol is more precise than an AK47. You really just need one clean shot.

As Abdul Haji said,A gun is a gun,the only thing that matters is how good you are with it.

True, otherwise getting a miss when using a pistol is very much possible!
Nadondosha meli kubwa seuze ngalawa!
murchr
#99 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 6:52:25 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Are you done with getting tired and frustrated?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Mukiri
#100 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2015 7:35:44 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
MatataMingi wrote:
TNT wrote:
murchr wrote:
TNT wrote:
Swenani wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
murchr wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
murchr wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
murchr wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Nothing in our incompetent security forces will shock me. ION, I hear Karangi will retire and be appointed the national security advisor or head of homeland security or whatever cosmetic 'reforms' they are considering. Has this guy not done enough damage to the credibility of our security operations? Just asking


Have we lost a war? Dont blame Karangi for the useless policing we have, the man has never headed the police force. Now i support @tycho with the whiners comment.



Westgate crap? Soldiers watching helplessly as kids are massacred in Garissa ? Your memory is short chief...


Those who got involved in stealing at westgate were fired, its not the job or the army to go in and evacuate people...as much as I pity the kids, that was a police job.

I simply don't get this. You secure the scene coz it's not your job to battle terrorists? For hours?? All that time you hear cries of victims as the Islamic brutes leisurely carry out their act?


You have to understand that security forces work on orders. The military do not take orders from Raia, or the local cops the commander has to give them instructions. Its the job of the police to secure the public within the country, in this case the police in Garissa should have been the ones evacuating and going after the criminals inside the buildings and if they werent able then reinforcement is sent from the other police units (RECCE, GSU, etc). The army is not trained to do this. I think Kenyans see people in uniform and assume that its their duty to serve them whenever they want...its almost like in the med field, a dentist cannot treat your malaria. Like i've said again, the army's duty is to kill whoever is on the other side.



Be as it may that orders have to be issued and followed by the police, how long will it take to get this right? This is not a movie in the making where you can 79 takes.....after Westgate, the forces should have gotten their acts together!



I think that is a fallacy and it's a shame you are perpetuating that falsehood. However, if it is true, then we are in big trouble because it means that our army is incapable of, say, fighting a warlord in his palace because that would amount to Close Quarter Combat. In essence what you are saying is that if our army were to find themselves in such a situation outside our borders, they would ask RECCe for assistance. That's just insane. Even the army claimed that it was their Special Forces that had cornered the Garissa attackers. The question is, weren't the Army Special Forces able to neutralize the terrorist much faster considering the terrorist were being led by a guy who until about a year ago was probably spending sleepless nights at the UoN studying for a CAT while our Army guys were in their barracks practising combat maneuvers. How is it that Al Shabaab can turn a "softie" into Rambo in less than a year while our Army System cannot seem to do the same even when they have more time and better "raw material" to work with?


Its not insane, when the army goes to war, their main aim is to neutralize the enemy no negotiations etc so for your example, they would just bomb the palace and bring down the thing with whoever was inside.

This case, there were four criminals holding hostages, that's a police job. The armies way of doing things would have been to bring down the whole hostel but that was not ideal.

I'll give you examples. Now forget the movies...When the US army aims at targets, they use drones and missiles to neutralize their targets, when they get to the ground, they use hand grenades and bombs to neutralize targets right? Would you have wished for that in this situation? When they are sent to hostage situations...they use navy seals who are part of United States Special Operations Command. A more sophisticated form of our RECCE that is actually drawn from the military. Our military doesn't have that; from what we know our special combat mission is drawn from the GSU not the military.

And if you want to further understand the KDF, just look at their kiswahili descriptions


A few facts that you got wrong:

1) Garissa attack was not a hostage situation. It was a massacre, so there were no negotiations going on since the terrorists were not asking for a chopper and a buss with a tank full of gas. Instead, they were just having a field day butchering and executing students as our army was pretending to secure the perimeter.

2) Modern warfare is essentially Close Quarter Combat. In other words, modern armies generally fight in an urban setting and so it is vital for them to be well versed in CQB/CQC. When you say our army is incapable of fighting Close Quarter Combat, you are actually saying that our army is handicapped, which is not a compliment as may think but a serious flaw.

3) Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably heard of a bomb shelter. Bombing a building does not necessarily mean job done. In other words, the only way to ensure the warlord in the palace is truly dead is to send soldiers in their to confirm ala Osama Bin Laden. That's the reason why the US Special Forces decided to send real soldiers for that mission instead of firing a SCUD missile from the comfort of Washington.

4) Since you've referred extensively to the US Army consider this: every division of the US Army has an elite team well-versed in all forms of warfare, from Guerilla warfare to Close Quater Combat to Assassination. For instance, instead of the relying on the US Marine famous SEAL 6, the US Army trained their own team of Special Forces. Similarly, the Kenyan Army has it's own team of Special Forces that should actually be much better than RECCe but unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case.

All this talk of the Kenyan Army is not to do this or that is bullcrap. If indeed it is true, then you should be seriously worried because it means our army is so one-dimensional.


@ TNT. So true. I can't believe people can be so naive.

@TNT TouchéApplause . Just like Bush, it's unfortunate that there are some C and D people, in vocal positions.

Proverbs 19:21
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