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Greece is broke
guru267
#11 Posted : Monday, February 22, 2010 12:23:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
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Location: Nairobi
@cnn i'm definately not wrong... the original PIGS included Italy and not Ireland... the newer abbreviation is now PIIGS which includes Ireland and Italy..

if you still aint convinced check it out on Wikipedia
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
the sage
#12 Posted : Monday, February 22, 2010 12:58:10 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
@Intelligentsia, Russia has the clout to pull off that kind of move. A nuclera former susperpower can be excused for behaving that way but not a gheto backward country like Greece (relative to most EU countries).
Intelligentsia
#13 Posted : Monday, February 22, 2010 1:18:52 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
@sage...true but the trend is catching up fast and spreading globally from Asia (Russia) to Europe (Iceland is refusing debt servitude) and did not spare Latin America including the Argentines in South America. Countries are facing national bankruptcies...mostly due to huge stocks of external debt.

'Argentina defaulted on part of its external debt at the beginning of 2002. Foreign investment fled the country, and capital flow towards Argentina ceased almost completely. Argentina was "left out of the world." The currency exchange rate (formerly a fixed 1-to-1 parity between the Argentine peso and the U.S. dollar) was floated, and the peso devalued quickly, producing massive inflation.

Large-scale debt restructuring was needed urgently, since the debt had become unpayable. However, the Argentine government met severe challenges trying to refinance its debt. Creditors (many of them private citizens in Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan and other countries, who had invested their savings and retirement pensions in debt bonds) denounced the default; the Italian government lobbied against Argentina in international forums. Vulture funds who had acquired sovereign bonds during the critical moments, at very low prices, asked to be repaid immediately.

The state had no spare money at the time, and the Central Bank's foreign currency reserves were almost depleted. (Moreover, whatever amount left was needed to control the availability of dollars in the local market, in order to prevent further devaluation of the peso.) For four years, Argentina was a pariah, effectively shut out of the international financial markets.

Even as the economic situation improved, the amount of the debt was still the largest defaulted debt in history (about 93,000 million USD), and Argentina was in no position to pay without sacrificing essential parts of its budget.

The Argentine government kept a firm stance, and finally got a deal by which 76% of the defaulted bonds were exchanged by others, of a much lower nominal value (25–35% of the original) and at longer terms...Debt bonds not exchanged in 2005 accounted for 23,381 million USD, of which 12,688 million were already overdue. Because of the lack of payment to these creditors, Argentina is the only member of the G-20 that is unable to raise capital in the international financial markets...

http://en.wikipedia.org/...tine_debt_restructuring

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/...b49a.html?nclick_check=1
bkismat
#14 Posted : Monday, February 22, 2010 1:21:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
PIIGS and PIGS are acronyms used by international bond analysts, academics, and by the international economic press that refer to the economies of Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain, especially in regards to matters relating to sovereign debt markets. When rendered as "PIGS", the "I" originally refered to Italy, but has occasionally become an interchangeable reference to Ireland. Some news and economic organisations have limited or banned their use due to criticism regarding perceived offensive connotations. Sourced from Wikipedia.
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
the sage
#15 Posted : Monday, February 22, 2010 1:48:23 PM
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Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
@Intelligentsia, if it becomes a domino effect, the entire financial system will collapse. For a fact the US will no longer be able to service its debts.
sparkly
#16 Posted : Monday, February 22, 2010 7:56:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
@guru267 on bailouts, the only man standing upright in the EU is Germany. Can he support the limping weights of Greece, portugal and spain? Rumour has it that Greece is considering leaving the EU. @Sage i get your line of thought. superiority of the capitalism ideology has been disapproved. Governments bailing out private enterprise, governments bailing out governments! Might we go back to imperialism...
Life is short. Live passionately.
guru267
#17 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:30:02 AM
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Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@sparkly that becomes the major dilemma the eurozone is facing.. if greece gets bailed out then what stops the other of the PIIGS asking for one... but on the other hand if any country in the eurozone fails then we are talking about a failure and collapse of the euro currency...


under no circumstances will germany and france let this happen as these two countries had to dump their already strong currencies(mark and franc) for the euro...

but all this said i really dont see a crisis happening with portugal, spain or italy happening any time soon so the ECB can buy alot of time to set up a strategy...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:01:45 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,380
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
@VVS Let me correct a little.. the I in PIGS stands for Italy not Ireland...

I used PIGS (Ireland) coz it is in more trouble than Italy... or so it seems...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:04:32 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,380
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
@guru267 on bailouts, the only man standing upright in the EU is Germany. Can he support the limping weights of Greece, portugal and spain? Rumour has it that Greece is considering leaving the EU. @Sage i get your line of thought. superiority of the capitalism ideology has been disapproved. Governments bailing out private enterprise, governments bailing out governments! Might we go back to imperialism...

Capitalism has not been disproved but not being allowed to work...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Wa_ithaka
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:57:39 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
Greeks are hooked on govt spending but I think the EU won't give them any help unless they can wean themselves of govt spending in a big way. But they'll get some help unelss the Krauts can find a way of forcing Greeks out.

The big problem with the EU is that everybody was invited to join the party without proper scrutiny or mechanisms to get everybody's economy to be aligned thereafter. So today you have profligate countries like Greece and Italy that think a balanced budget is some foreign langauge and others like Germany that have never had a fiscal crisis since World War 1.

VVs- free market capitalism is a textbook theory that will never work in any country
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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