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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,335 Location: Masada
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:That's a very silly argument. Christianity is the religion of peace too. Don't let me remind you of the Christian MPIg who was busy raping someone recently. Or the Christian Kenyans who were busy burning children in a Christian Church. Or the Christian Pastor who was busy raping young boys. were they doing all these crimes in the name of, or for the furtherance of their religion? You dont have to respond to some openly hogwash comment!  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:symbols wrote:@AlphDoti - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...sts&t=31086&p=3
This is a verse you like to quote to bolster the peaceful image of Islam. 5:32 wrote:
For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.
So as we discuss KDF in Somalia and corruption in Kenya explain how a Muslim is supposed to follow the peaceful part you like to highlight and not the violent part. I have just seen something. In the mindset of the writer, when he was writing this verse what did he have in mind when using the words 'corruption in the earth'? I tend to think he was not thinking of giving a police man a bribe of ksh. 1,000 bank note to allow transit from Garissa to Nairobi. By any chance does being zalimun & kafirun constitute 'corruption in the earth'? If so, then who ever can be put in that category is finished. That verse will not protect them for it talks about Allah's sovereignty! So much for 'peace'. DISCLAIMER: MY REPOSNSE BELOW IS NOT JUSTIFYING THE GARISSA INCIDENT. IT IS A REPLY TO QUESTIONS RAISED BY @SYMBOLS AND @MURIEL ABOVE. PLIZ DON'T MISUNDERSTAND ME!!!!!!5:32: " whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth" The story of Cain is referred to in a few graphic details in order to tell the story of Israel. Israel rebelled against Allah, slew and insulted righteous men who did them no harm but on the contrary came in all humility. When Allah withdrew His favour from Israel because of its sins and bestowed it on a brother nation, the jealousy of Israel plunged it deeper into sin. To kill or seek to kill an individual because he represents an ideal is to kill all who uphold the ideal. On the other hand, to save an individual life in the same circumstances is to save a whole community. What could be stronger condemnation of individual assassination and revenge? You can check out 5:45: We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal."
But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrongdoers.The retaliation is prescribed in three places in the Bible: Exodus 21:23-25; Leviticus 24:18-21, and Deuteronomy 19:21. The wording in the three quotations is different, but in none of them is found the additional rider for mercy, as here. Note that in Matt. 5:38, Jesus quotes the Old Law "eye for eye." etc and modifies it in the direction of forgiveness, But the Quranic injunction is more practical. This appeal for mercy is as between man and man in the spiritual world. Even where the injured one forgives, the State or Ruler is competent to take such action as is necessary for the preservation of law and order in Society. For crime has a bearing that goes beyond the interests of the person injured: the Community is affected just like is mentioned above in 5:32 What you have said is fine and dandy but skirts around the issue. In your opinion what is an example of 'corruptions in the earth'? I have an example and it is found in the Qur'an 9:7-10. (For length of post considerations I will not quote it here but highlight the terminology as used in the context.) Polytheists are the 'corruptions in the earth'. 1. There is to be no treaty with polytheists. 2. There can be no treaty with polytheists when they are 'dominant' over Muslims. 3. They (polytheists) are doing evil. (They are the corruptions) They are the transgressors. 4. If the polytheists do not do what Muslims want (repent, pray and give zaka) they are to be fought till they 'cease'. Whoever kills a Muslim is the one to whom it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one (muslim), it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Why didn't you start from verse 6? Then you didn't quote the verse, but gave your own words to mislead people! It's amazing what extent a Christian goes to lie! Here is the verse for all to see and decide:Quran 9:6 " If one amongst the Pagans (idol worhippers then) ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah.
and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. So @muriel, even among the enemies, actively fighting against Islam, there may be individuals who may be in a position to require protection. In Islam, full asylum is to be given to them, and opportunities provided for hearing the Word of Allah. If they accept the Word, they become Muslims and brethren, and no further question arises. If they do not see their way to accept Islam, they will require double protection: (1) from the Islamic forces openly fighting against their people, and (2) from their own people, as they detached themselves from them. Both kinds of protection should be ensured for them, and they should be safely escorted to a place where they can be safe. Such persons only err through ignorance, and there may be much good in them. This is amazing @muriel. Ask yourself, which generous army general today will say let the enemy go? Which army general today will say escort the enemy to security that the Quran says? BELOW ARE THE RIGHT VERSES:Quran 9:7 says: How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous. Quran 9:8 says: How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked. Quran 9:9 says: The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done. Quran 9:10 says: In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:
Why didn't you start from verse 6?
Then you didn't quote the verse, but gave your own words to mislead people! It's amazing what extent a Christian goes to lie!
Here is the verse for all to see and decide:
Quran 9:6 "If one amongst the Pagans (idol worhippers then) ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah.
and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
So @muriel, even among the enemies, actively fighting against Islam, there may be individuals who may be in a position to require protection.
In Islam, full asylum is to be given to them, and opportunities provided for hearing the Word of Allah.
If they accept the Word, they become Muslims and brethren, and no further question arises.
If they do not see their way to accept Islam, they will require double protection:
(1) from the Islamic forces openly fighting against their people, and
(2) from their own people, as they detached themselves from them.
Both kinds of protection should be ensured for them, and they should be safely escorted to a place where they can be safe.
Such persons only err through ignorance, and there may be much good in them.
This is amazing @muriel. Ask yourself, which generous army general today will say let the enemy go?
Which army general today will say escort the enemy to security that the Quran says?
BELOW ARE THE RIGHT VERSES:
Quran 9:7 says: How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.
Quran 9:8 says: How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.
Quran 9:9 says: The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.
Quran 9:10 says: In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.
Verse 6 does not contradict my position. It only strengthens it. The only reason a Muslim can and should give asylum to a polytheist is to preach to him with conversion to Islam as the acceptable end. If he stands true to his polytheism and does not accept Islam, he is still under threat from Islamic forces fighting against his polytheistic people as you have said. Why is he still under threat? Why do the same Muslims threaten him yet offer him protection? That is nonsensical. By the way, in verse 7 it appears there is an exception for those who made a treaty near the sacred Mosque. It appears that this exception does not necessarily imply any mosque around. The definite article 'the' used before the noun shows it is a specific mosque. It is not a general statement to be applied to any mosque around. Whoever was not in the vicinity of that mosque at that time is time-barred. You cannot apply it today. There is no protection for polytheists. Accept it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Why didn't you start from verse 6?
Then you didn't quote the verse, but gave your own words to mislead people! It's amazing what extent a Christian goes to lie!
Here is the verse for all to see and decide:
Quran 9:6 "If one amongst the Pagans (idol worhippers then) ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah.
and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
So @muriel, even among the enemies, actively fighting against Islam, there may be individuals who may be in a position to require protection.
In Islam, full asylum is to be given to them, and opportunities provided for hearing the Word of Allah.
If they accept the Word, they become Muslims and brethren, and no further question arises.
If they do not see their way to accept Islam, they will require double protection:
(1) from the Islamic forces openly fighting against their people, and
(2) from their own people, as they detached themselves from them.
Both kinds of protection should be ensured for them, and they should be safely escorted to a place where they can be safe.
Such persons only err through ignorance, and there may be much good in them.
This is amazing @muriel. Ask yourself, which generous army general today will say let the enemy go?
Which army general today will say escort the enemy to security that the Quran says?
BELOW ARE THE RIGHT VERSES:
Quran 9:7 says: How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.
Quran 9:8 says: How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.
Quran 9:9 says: The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.
Quran 9:10 says: In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.
Verse 6 does not contradict my position. It only strengthens it. The only reason a Muslim can and should give asylum to a polytheist is to preach to him with conversion to Islam as the acceptable end. If he stands true to his polytheism and does not accept Islam, he is still under threat from Islamic forces fighting against his polytheistic people as you have said. Why is he still under threat? Why do the same Muslims threaten him yet offer him protection? That is nonsensical. By the way, in verse 7 it appears there is an exception for those who made a treaty near the sacred Mosque. It appears that this exception does not necessarily imply any mosque around. The definite article 'the' used before the noun shows it is a specific mosque. It is not a general statement to be applied to any mosque around. Whoever was not in the vicinity of that mosque at that time is time-barred. You cannot apply it today. There is no protection for polytheists. Accept it. You see @muriel, Islam teaches us about how to go to war. When people go to war, islam teaches how to engage. It teaches soldiers not to kill women and children or the elderly or any innocent person. It teaches them if the enemy wants asylum (a refuge), then don't just let them go, escort them to a place of security!!! Mashallah! Which I asked you before, give me one generous army general today who will say let the enemy go? Which army general today will say escort the enemy to security that the Quran says? Or if they wish peace, we can sign a treaty with them to live with us in harmony without they disregarded the ties both of kinship and of covenant. @muriel, I know you will go round and round on this. But the beauty is: YOU ARE MAKING PEOPLE READ THE VERSES, AND WHEN THEY READ THEY SEE THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM. FOR THAT i THANK YOU 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,335 Location: Masada
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C&P @Itumbi! Quote:The Practice of Journalism.....
"Female journalists were forced to wear hijabs - veils covering their heads and chests - during KCB's Islamic banking launch yesterday. Those who refused to oblige were turned away, claimed journalists who attended the Sahl banking event at Hilton Hotel, Nairobi.
They said those allowed to stay were sat separately from their male colleagues and were forbidden from addressing speakers directly. Their male colleagues allegedly asked questions on their behalf.
KCB did not mention the conditions in a brief to media houses requesting for coverage. In a phone interview with the Star, Ogilvy Public Relations, which handled the event, said it had asked that journalists be exempt from the rule.
The company said KCB however noted that the conditions had been set by the Muslim leaders who organised the event. Ogilvy apologised for the confusion saying women without hijabs were not turned away but were asked to sit at the back.
The company confirmed that men and women occupied separate rooms and that female journalists were asked to give their questions to their male counterparts."
Via Business Daily
@Eric Odour Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Impunity wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:That's a very silly argument. Christianity is the religion of peace too. Don't let me remind you of the Christian MPIg who was busy raping someone recently. Or the Christian Kenyans who were busy burning children in a Christian Church. Or the Christian Pastor who was busy raping young boys. were they doing all these crimes in the name of, or for the furtherance of their religion? You dont have to respond to some openly hogwash comment! I agree, bilisi wa mtu ni mtu
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:You see @muriel, Islam teaches us about how to go to war. When people go to war, islam teaches how to engage. It teaches soldiers not to kill women and children or the elderly or any innocent person. It teaches them if the enemy wants asylum (a refuge), then don't just let them go, escort them to a place of security!!! Mashallah! Which I asked you before, give me one generous army general today who will say let the enemy go? Which army general today will say escort the enemy to security that the Quran says? Or if they wish peace, we can sign a treaty with them to live with us in harmony without they disregarded the ties both of kinship and of covenant. @muriel, I know you will go round and round on this. But the beauty is: YOU ARE MAKING PEOPLE READ THE VERSES, AND WHEN THEY READ THEY SEE THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM. FOR THAT i THANK YOU Yes. In 2013, the Congolese army, led by a general whose name escapes me, together with the UN led an offensive against the M23 rebels in the east of the country. The rebels surrendered and signed a peace treatey at Mgahinga National Park in Uganda. They were escorted to places of safety in Rwanda and Uganda where they have not been prosecuted for the atrocities they did. It appears they are safe there. There is no credit to Islam and Muslims for this. Of course, my aim and object is to make people read the Qur'an for themselves. They should not rely on narratives from Imams and Sheikhs about how good and peaceful Islam is. After reading they will be in a better position to see for themselves if the 'religion of peace' is what it claims to be. I am not in the business of forcing conversions. What you take as my apparent defeat happens to be my victory.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:You see @muriel, Islam teaches us about how to go to war. When people go to war, islam teaches how to engage. It teaches soldiers not to kill women and children or the elderly or any innocent person. It teaches them if the enemy wants asylum (a refuge), then don't just let them go, escort them to a place of security!!! Mashallah! Which I asked you before, give me one generous army general today who will say let the enemy go? Which army general today will say escort the enemy to security that the Quran says? Or if they wish peace, we can sign a treaty with them to live with us in harmony without they disregarded the ties both of kinship and of covenant. @muriel, I know you will go round and round on this. But the beauty is: YOU ARE MAKING PEOPLE READ THE VERSES, AND WHEN THEY READ THEY SEE THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM. FOR THAT i THANK YOU Yes. In 2013, the Congolese army, led by a general whose name escapes me, together with the UN led an offensive against the M23 rebels in the east of the country. The rebels surrendered and signed a peace treatey at Mgahinga National Park in Uganda. They were escorted to places of safety in Rwanda and Uganda where they have not been prosecuted for the atrocities they did. It appears they are safe there. There is no credit to Islam and Muslims for this. Of course, my aim and object is to make people read the Qur'an for themselves. They should not rely on narratives from Imams and Sheikhs about how good and peaceful Islam is. After reading they will be in a better position to see for themselves if the 'religion of peace' is what it claims to be. I am not in the business of forcing conversions. What you take as my apparent defeat happens to be my victory. I don't know to congratulate you for that nice piece of infor. I will remember it for future reference  At least these people are reading the Quran. This instruction was given to the Muslims 1400 years ago!! We also have many Hadiths showing that prophet muhammad's prohibition against Killing Women and Children in Military Expeditions: " I advise you ten things: Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly." But does killing of women and children prohibited according to the Bible?1 Samuel 15:2,3: This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " Numbers 31:17,18: Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Deuteronomy 20:16: However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:You see @muriel, Islam teaches us about how to go to war. When people go to war, islam teaches how to engage. It teaches soldiers not to kill women and children or the elderly or any innocent person. It teaches them if the enemy wants asylum (a refuge), then don't just let them go, escort them to a place of security!!! Mashallah! Which I asked you before, give me one generous army general today who will say let the enemy go? Which army general today will say escort the enemy to security that the Quran says? Or if they wish peace, we can sign a treaty with them to live with us in harmony without they disregarded the ties both of kinship and of covenant. @muriel, I know you will go round and round on this. But the beauty is: YOU ARE MAKING PEOPLE READ THE VERSES, AND WHEN THEY READ THEY SEE THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM. FOR THAT i THANK YOU Yes. In 2013, the Congolese army, led by a general whose name escapes me, together with the UN led an offensive against the M23 rebels in the east of the country. The rebels surrendered and signed a peace treatey at Mgahinga National Park in Uganda. They were escorted to places of safety in Rwanda and Uganda where they have not been prosecuted for the atrocities they did. It appears they are safe there. There is no credit to Islam and Muslims for this. Of course, my aim and object is to make people read the Qur'an for themselves. They should not rely on narratives from Imams and Sheikhs about how good and peaceful Islam is. After reading they will be in a better position to see for themselves if the 'religion of peace' is what it claims to be. I am not in the business of forcing conversions. What you take as my apparent defeat happens to be my victory. I don't know to congratulate you for that nice piece of infor. I will remember it for future reference At least these people are reading the Quran. This instruction was given to the Muslims 1400 years ago!! We also have many Hadiths showing that prophet muhammad's prohibition against Killing Women and Children in Military Expeditions: " I advise you ten things: Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly." But does killing of women and children prohibited according to the Bible?1 Samuel 15:2,3: This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " Numbers 31:17,18: Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Deuteronomy 20:16: However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. The rebels are safe from prosecution. Of course you being familiar with killing with impunity identify with that situation hence your applause. Like the verse about treaty near the mosque, this is also a specific command to a specific battle. There is no indication that it was an overarching command to cover all battles in all ages. I know this because, the other verses about how polytheists and the 'disobedient' still stand. Allah does not suffer the 'disobedient' to live. Even Muslims who 'disobey' by converting to other religions are killed. Even Muslims who 'disobey' by having causal sex are killed. There is no safety from Allah. There is no safety in Islam.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 931
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kaka2za wrote:Mutuma Imathiu and Citizen news had a valid point. There is need for public education on how to react to terrorist attacks.
We are usually advised to cooperate with robbers but obeying the terrorist is a ticket to hell. So fight them because you will be dead anyway. If you dont cooperate with terrorists, they behead you. So if you choose to fight them try very much to win “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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