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The Tale of 2 Countries Kenya & Singapore
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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timbosho wrote:nakujua wrote:masukuma wrote:nakujua wrote:Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili.  you people never fail to surprise me. So... is IQ a factor of skin color? presence of melanin or lack there of? is melanin abundance a causal factor or a correlational factor? Lazy brains tend to draw up conclusions like this! is IQ a factor of birth, diet, environment? Does the weight a mother pick up during her pregnancy affect the IQ of the child she is bearing? Does talking to your child while in the womb and after they are born (way before they can give your any kind of feedback) affect the IQ of the child? What about having elder siblings? Are there other factors? are they causal or correlational? What are the causal not correlational factors that actually make IQ tests differ among groups of people?Don't be a lazy thinker!! In my well considered opinion it's all down to 2 things... CULTURE and DIET amongst other factors! even such things as height are to a large extent having a dietary correlation. Has anyone looked up the Flynn effect? by the way... how come the Japanese or the chineses (that are supposed to have higher IQs) don't go around reminding everyone that they are in the front of the bell curve and yet it's the people in the middle that do? Don't consume hate science and look at your kids any differently! your kids are not damned to be low IQed just because their folks had black skins... priss! synthesising the causality of IQ or any other trait of the human race to just 1 or 2 variables is incredibly lazy... FAGA!! DON'T BE A LAZY THINKER! sasa @ma-sukuma, si @ti-mbosho amesema bell curve ni ukweli wa maisha - how is one supposed to discuss with one who believes that the color of your skin is a determinant of ones intelligence, si unakubaliana tu na yeye - sasa utamwambia nini, na tayari anajua yeye na wewe na mimi tulizaliwa na ujinga. Sio timbosho alisema. Ni Uncle Lee alisema, the great Lee Kuan Yew. Personally I'm not quite sure why it is Asians and whites dominating the world economy and politics, not black people. But come to think of it, outside of Egypt, Mali and Ethiopia, what have we contributed to the world in terms of scientific, economic or cultural achievements? The Chinese can point to tea, philosophy, gunpowder, paper money etc. What can we point to? I do not know if its lazy thinking or not, but when you open the book of African achievements in the past and now, it is mostly blank outside Egypt, Ethiopia and Mali. Either what was achieved was lost in time/forgotten, or just was not there to begin with. @ti-mbosho your answer will be found in this thread >>http://wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&m=454868 Funny how you've been conditioned to think that even the African has no culture yet these same white people cross oceans just to come experience that innate African culture. Just as your fore fathers were told that their gods were/are idols and that the only way to connect with the maker is by worshiping the middle eastern gods. That's why i respect those Kikuyu elders who go to worship and offer libations whilst facing mt. Kenya. This brainwashing continues to this day i see you've even taken off Egypt Ethiopia from your list of African people because......they have a white/fair skin? Anyway...its such mindsets that lag the African back. You need to learn your history. Let me just mention, that astronomy was African invention - Google Namoratunga - PS the white man will tell you that is witchcraft. Another google assignment - Mpemba effect. The reason why ngozi nyeupe thrives, is because he has been conditioned to believe that he is superior hence the can do attitude until it happens. You just need to interact with them "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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timbosho wrote:tycho wrote:Phallic comparisons and tales of inadequacy are generally symptoms of alienation. On this thread, the African isn't being aware of himself; instead he's projecting an image he's acquired from a white supremacist worldview and critiquing it. That is, he's blocking his authenticity even further.
'Wimbi la maneno na kelele. Kupanda kelele na kuvuna kelele.' Hmm...How else can we compare/value ourselves? By changing what we value? The point of comparing ourselves with others is a delusion. It supposes an objective reality as a standard. But there's no such thing. Values are about adapting to internal and subjective needs and experiences. All humans are the same, but different experiences lead to different learning and behavior. One, I have learnt, should be very careful when labeling behavior. 'Laziness' can be either taught, or can be 'passive aggression'. 'Lack of focus' is easy when there's a feeling of desperation or frenzy to 'catch up'. GDP, designer wear, 'formal education' and the like aren't universal metaphors or values. There are many more metaphors available to humans, each equally valid.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 8/23/2013 Posts: 34
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tycho wrote:timbosho wrote:tycho wrote:Phallic comparisons and tales of inadequacy are generally symptoms of alienation. On this thread, the African isn't being aware of himself; instead he's projecting an image he's acquired from a white supremacist worldview and critiquing it. That is, he's blocking his authenticity even further.
'Wimbi la maneno na kelele. Kupanda kelele na kuvuna kelele.' Hmm...How else can we compare/value ourselves? By changing what we value? The point of comparing ourselves with others is a delusion. It supposes an objective reality as a standard. But there's no such thing. Values are about adapting to internal and subjective needs and experiences. All humans are the same, but different experiences lead to different learning and behavior. One, I have learnt, should be very careful when labeling behavior. 'Laziness' can be either taught, or can be 'passive aggression'. 'Lack of focus' is easy when there's a feeling of desperation or frenzy to 'catch up'. GDP, designer wear, 'formal education' and the like aren't universal metaphors or values. There are many more metaphors available to humans, each equally valid. @tycho by asking these questions I am only seeking answers to why is Africa behind economically and cannot seem to manage to feed, dress and take care of its people. I do not subscribe to the idea that Africans are inferior or superior to other peoples. I am wondering why whenever we face a challenge like famine, we run to the developed nations and/or China for "aid". I am wondering why despite of having an abundance of natural resources, well educated, hard working people, poverty and disease still stalks a large percentage of Africans as compared to other regions of the world. In seeking answers I compare Africa to the other regions of the world that have managed to address these challenges. I see how their histories have influenced them and their approach to the challenges they face, and I compare that to what we are doing as Africa, what we have done in the past, and cannot help but wonder. For example, what is my history, where is it written down, why was it not written down by my forefathers? I was born in a place called Kenya but Kenya is a name that came into being on the say so of the white man. What did my great great grandfather call where we lived? Did my great great great grandfather travel to the coast? What did he call the ocean if he did? Was he able to read and write? Did my people build ships like the Romans and the Chinese did 6000 years ago? These are the questions that run through my mind. Other people can answer questions like these about themselves, but I cannot, because my history was not written down by those who went before for me to read. Why didnt we learn to read and write in our languages? Was it because there was no need for it? That is what I mean by the book being empty when it comes to achievements. The reason I removed Egypt and Ethiopia, and Mali is because their achievements are well known. I am more curious about the achievements of those who were found in the geographical areas outside these 3.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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timbosho wrote:
@tycho by asking these questions I am only seeking answers to why is Africa behind economically and cannot seem to manage to feed, dress and take care of its people. I do not subscribe to the idea that Africans are inferior or superior to other peoples. I am wondering why whenever we face a challenge like famine, we run to the developed nations and/or China for "aid". I am wondering why despite of having an abundance of natural resources, well educated, hard working people, poverty and disease still stalks a large percentage of Africans as compared to other regions of the world. In seeking answers I compare Africa to the other regions of the world that have managed to address these challenges. I see how their histories have influenced them and their approach to the challenges they face, and I compare that to what we are doing as Africa, what we have done in the past, and cannot help but wonder. For example, what is my history, where is it written down, why was it not written down by my forefathers? I was born in a place called Kenya but Kenya is a name that came into being on the say so of the white man. What did my great great grandfather call where we lived? Did my great great great grandfather travel to the coast? What did he call the ocean if he did? Was he able to read and write? Did my people build ships like the Romans and the Chinese did 6000 years ago? These are the questions that run through my mind. Other people can answer questions like these about themselves, but I cannot, because my history was not written down by those who went before for me to read. Why didn't we learn to read and write in our languages? Was it because there was no need for it? That is what I mean by the book being empty when it comes to achievements. The reason I removed Egypt and Ethiopia, and Mali is because their achievements are well known. I am more curious about the achievements of those who were found in the geographical areas outside these 3.
you see other races doing stuff and you think... hey... why have we not done that? how come africans have not [INSERT ACHIEVEMENT HERE] not realising that the situation is more complex that what you can comprehend.... Naturally you think... 50 years is a long time we should have been like [INSERT ASIAN TIGER HERE] because we got independence at the same time (like years of independence is some sort of metric that contributes to growth or "development"... but I digress). What you want is to be seen like others, to have some form of pride... like others. You think that people need to do some things to be seen as people and you want africans to have done some of those things and your bitterness is that... here in lies the very root of your problem - the problem to be seen as a 'person' in the eyes of other races or so you think. You think that if we could only do [INSERT SOME ACHIEVEMENT HERE] we would be in the ranks of 'people'. You think that you will have some social currency if your people built some contraption and sailed the seas 6k yrs ago... too bad... not such thing happened. As for the other achievements you are seeking? Well... we have not done [INSERT ACHIEVEMENT HERE]! that's a fact... we are not the only ones not to have done that. polynesian, american indians, inuits, mongolians, australian aborigines, people from papua new guinea, latinas e.t.c. have not done it.... but that's not even the point the point is YOUR BEING A HUMAN BEING (PERSON) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOUR SOCIETY'S/ANCESTORS' ACHIEVEMENTS. can someone answer my question... why do all these IQ issues emanate from one Race? We don't here it for the people at the very end of the so called intelligence bell curve. disease, famine e.t.c. are also contextual.... even if we had exactly the same context... even if we were right in the middle of the old world not having the sahara separating us from the rest of the 'action'. Even if we were right in the center of things and we did nothing... we would still have been humans (people)...since the being human has nothing to do with doing stuff. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:
you see other races doing stuff and you think... hey... why have we not done that? how come africans have not [INSERT ACHIEVEMENT HERE] not realising that the situation is more complex that what you can comprehend.... Naturally you think... 50 years is a long time we should have been like [INSERT ASIAN TIGER HERE] because we got independence at the same time (like years of independence is some sort of metric that contributes to growth or "development"... but I digress). What you want is to be seen like others, to have some form of pride... like others. You think that people need to do some things to be seen as people and you want africans to have done some of those things and your bitterness is that... here in lies the very root of your problem - the problem to be seen as a 'person' in the eyes of other races or so you think. You think that if we could only do [INSERT SOME ACHIEVEMENT HERE] we would be in the ranks of 'people'. You think that you will have some social currency if your people built some contraption and sailed the seas 6k yrs ago... too bad... not such thing happened. As for the other achievements you are seeking? Well... we have not done [INSERT ACHIEVEMENT HERE]! that's a fact... we are not the only ones not to have done that. polynesian, american indians, inuits, mongolians, australian aborigines, people from papua new guinea, latinas e.t.c. have not done it.... but that's not even the point the point is YOUR BEING A HUMAN BEING (PERSON) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOUR SOCIETY'S/ANCESTORS' ACHIEVEMENTS.
can someone answer my question... why do all these IQ issues emanate from one Race? We don't here it for the people at the very end of the so called intelligence bell curve. Just because the others don't bother with it,doesn't render it meaningless.
disease, famine e.t.c. are also contextual.... even if we had exactly the same context... even if we were right in the middle of the old world not having the sahara separating us from the rest of the 'action'. Even if we were right in the center of things and we did nothing... we would still have been humans (people)...since the being human has nothing to do with doing stuff.
@Masukuma. What are you saying? Are you saying it was meaningless for those who had advanced in medicine/ technology/literature etc to have done so? Did the African choose not advance? Or was he simply unable to? For the last 2,000 years, what was the African doing? What is the African doing now? A lot might not have been documented,WHY? In places where there was documentation, there was some sort of education system. Students could study lit, maths, science etc etc become engineers, writers,philosophers. In East & Central Africa, without schools, where were the engineers,doctors, financial analysts etc to come from? The factors that made Singapore/S.Korea to be at par with Kenya were man made. They have a history of achievements stretching more than 3,000 years whereas he in Kenya, our history & achievements hardly stretch 200 years. In short, i think some people cultures have had enough 'developmental' time, we on the other hand, we are just starting to crawl. That's how Singapore is where it is and Kenya is where it is.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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mkeiy wrote:masukuma wrote:
you see other races doing stuff and you think... hey... why have we not done that? how come africans have not [INSERT ACHIEVEMENT HERE] not realising that the situation is more complex that what you can comprehend.... Naturally you think... 50 years is a long time we should have been like [INSERT ASIAN TIGER HERE] because we got independence at the same time (like years of independence is some sort of metric that contributes to growth or "development"... but I digress). What you want is to be seen like others, to have some form of pride... like others. You think that people need to do some things to be seen as people and you want africans to have done some of those things and your bitterness is that... here in lies the very root of your problem - the problem to be seen as a 'person' in the eyes of other races or so you think. You think that if we could only do [INSERT SOME ACHIEVEMENT HERE] we would be in the ranks of 'people'. You think that you will have some social currency if your people built some contraption and sailed the seas 6k yrs ago... too bad... not such thing happened. As for the other achievements you are seeking? Well... we have not done [INSERT ACHIEVEMENT HERE]! that's a fact... we are not the only ones not to have done that. polynesian, american indians, inuits, mongolians, australian aborigines, people from papua new guinea, latinas e.t.c. have not done it.... but that's not even the point the point is YOUR BEING A HUMAN BEING (PERSON) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOUR SOCIETY'S/ANCESTORS' ACHIEVEMENTS.
can someone answer my question... why do all these IQ issues emanate from one Race? We don't here it for the people at the very end of the so called intelligence bell curve. Just because the others don't bother with it,doesn't render it meaningless.
disease, famine e.t.c. are also contextual.... even if we had exactly the same context... even if we were right in the middle of the old world not having the sahara separating us from the rest of the 'action'. Even if we were right in the center of things and we did nothing... we would still have been humans (people)...since the being human has nothing to do with doing stuff.
@Masukuma. What are you saying? Are you saying it was meaningless for those who had advanced in medicine/ technology/literature etc to have done so? Did the African choose not advance? Or was he simply unable to? For the last 2,000 years, what was the African doing? What is the African doing now? A lot might not have been documented,WHY? In places where there was documentation, there was some sort of education system. Students could study lit, maths, science etc etc become engineers, writers,philosophers. In East & Central Africa, without schools, where were the engineers,doctors, financial analysts etc to come from? The factors that made Singapore/S.Korea to be at par with Kenya were man made. They have a history of achievements stretching more than 3,000 years whereas he in Kenya, our history & achievements hardly stretch 200 years. In short, i think some people cultures have had enough 'developmental' time, we on the other hand, we are just starting to crawl. That's how Singapore is where it is and Kenya is where it is. yeah... let's say we have answers to all those questions... so? you ask about the last 2000 years...why stop there? well the modern human has been walking this planet for 150k-200k years - WHAT THE F**K WERE THEY DOING ALL THIS TIME? they suddenly woke up 10k years ago? what was up with the 140k-190k years? Biologically speaking they were the same lot - right? just a few cosmetic changes in hair color, eye color, density of melanin e.t.c.... so to answer your question... Africans had been doing exactly the same S**t the rest of the humans were doing for 140k-190k years - so sue us! Accept your fate and don't be bitter, cut corners when you can - the rules are not made for you. And by the way - you need to answer the question... when you get to be Singapore or Malaysia or Japan or China or US or Sweden... SO? will you be more human than you are now? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@timbosho, your questions, and indeed the fact of questioning is great. It's what drives us actually, and sometimes one goes through many answers and thoughts. It's like a trial and error kind of thing. I've also been going through similar questions, and even when I speak my frame of reference is my experience.
By studying my experience I realize that 'I' am basically like a self running transmitter-receiver networked to an abstract called 'mind'. This receiver-transmitter works on a kind of protocol I name, 'call-receive protocol'.
Now, when the CRP is flooded, and I have seen such floods, then one finds himself 'overwhelmed' by desire and want, irascible, lacking in focus, and most of the symptoms we see in Africa.
But by regulating my CRP protocol, I have managed to for example, improve the quality of my experience, increase my rate of 'achievement', I am registering better performance and am still discovering nuggets here and there.
And considering a community or society is a network of similar transmitter-receivers, then if the CRP is impeded either by flooding or otherwise then we should expect a compounded effect.
Does this model explain Singapore? Yes. Kenya? Yes. America? Yes. Anyway, am still testing it historically and on live subjects.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Best thread ever  @timbosho, mkeid and Torio. Keep the brain racking. @Tycho please keep contributing with simple english. @Masukuma, you are lost, calm down and try and read the thread from page 1. Question. What is Africas/kenyas biggest problem? The more I think and read the thoughts here. The more I am convinced its our lack of knowledge of state building. There is no evidence of organisation of a people beyond the village level in subsaharan africa before colonisation. May be thats what we have been trying to do for the last 50 years. Once the brits left us 50 years ago we got a piece of land called kenya. This could as well have been kenganda had the brits decided to have a single administration in east africa. Infact is there a subsaharan country that is cohesive and proud of their country. The Asians may have been conquered by the European in the 17th century to date. But records show they have lived in organised societies for years. It was therefore easy for them to pick up from where the colonialists left. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Quote:The more I think and read the thoughts here. The more I am convinced its our lack of knowledge of state building. There is no evidence of organisation of a people beyond the village level in subsaharan africa before colonisation. May be thats what we have been trying to do for the last 50 years.    Just because most Kenyan communities were governed by councils of elders doesn't mean all Africans were like that!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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timbosho wrote:nakujua wrote:masukuma wrote:nakujua wrote:Hapo sawa timbosho, ndivyo nilikubaliana na torio , sisi wamiliki wa ngozi nyeusi huzaliwa na kiwango kikubwa sana cha ujinga, na ukosefu wa akili. you people never fail to surprise me. So... is IQ a factor of skin color? presence of melanin or lack there of? is melanin abundance a causal factor or a correlational factor? Lazy brains tend to draw up conclusions like this! is IQ a factor of birth, diet, environment? Does the weight a mother pick up during her pregnancy affect the IQ of the child she is bearing? Does talking to your child while in the womb and after they are born (way before they can give your any kind of feedback) affect the IQ of the child? What about having elder siblings? Are there other factors? are they causal or correlational? What are the causal not correlational factors that actually make IQ tests differ among groups of people?Don't be a lazy thinker!! In my well considered opinion it's all down to 2 things... CULTURE and DIET amongst other factors! even such things as height are to a large extent having a dietary correlation. Has anyone looked up the Flynn effect? by the way... how come the Japanese or the chineses (that are supposed to have higher IQs) don't go around reminding everyone that they are in the front of the bell curve and yet it's the people in the middle that do? Don't consume hate science and look at your kids any differently! your kids are not damned to be low IQed just because their folks had black skins... priss! synthesising the causality of IQ or any other trait of the human race to just 1 or 2 variables is incredibly lazy... FAGA!! DON'T BE A LAZY THINKER! sasa @ma-sukuma, si @ti-mbosho amesema bell curve ni ukweli wa maisha - how is one supposed to discuss with one who believes that the color of your skin is a determinant of ones intelligence, si unakubaliana tu na yeye - sasa utamwambia nini, na tayari anajua yeye na wewe na mimi tulizaliwa na ujinga. Sio timbosho alisema. Ni Uncle Lee alisema, the great Lee Kuan Yew. Personally I'm not quite sure why it is Asians and whites dominating the world economy and politics, not black people. But come to think of it, outside of Egypt, Mali and Ethiopia, what have we contributed to the world in terms of scientific, economic or cultural achievements? The Chinese can point to tea, philosophy, gunpowder, paper money etc. What can we point to? I do not know if its lazy thinking or not, but when you open the book of African achievements in the past and now, it is mostly blank outside Egypt, Ethiopia and Mali. Either what was achieved was lost in time/forgotten, or just was not there to begin with. at least if you care to go back several years back you would have tripped across that ka achievement of turning a monkey into some crude form of a human being, if africa and to a good extent kenya had not done that we would all be jumping from tree to tree, picking ticks from each other. If you also got into the ka time machine and zoomed back into some carefully selected time you will realize that there is that ka achievement of selling its people abroad to work in some plantations, i am told that fed into some good chunk of what the west has now. Ama how are we measuring the achievements ? But seriously why would you measure achievement of a region then remove the achievers from it.
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