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Chimp versus Sheep - defeating terror
sparkly
#11 Posted : Monday, April 06, 2015 5:02:30 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
harrydre wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
Easier said than done.


True, they probably have never heard a gun shot and knowing how hostels are built, they might have been alone or at most 2 per room.


There are pictures in the Net of over 30 students killed in one room.
Life is short. Live passionately.
sparkly
#12 Posted : Monday, April 06, 2015 5:08:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
tycho wrote:
Know yourself and the enemy and you can win all battles. The students were not an organized force. They weren't many in effect. Each was alone.


@Tycho should we then shift emphasis on how to make crowds one in our institutions and in public places like malls? A sort of "first aid" before Recce show up?
Life is short. Live passionately.
sparkly
#13 Posted : Monday, April 06, 2015 5:15:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
maka wrote:
sparkly wrote:
A leopard - muscle, claws, jaws, fangs attacks a lone chimp. It's no contest, Chimp loses in minutes. Same case if the leopard attacks a lone sheep.

Leopard attacks a gang of chimps however, the chimps will defend themselves, make noise, bite, hustle the leopard. Chimps will lose one or two but if the leopard does not retreat in time it will also go to Makueni.

Sheep on the other hand... The leopard can pick them out one by one as the sheep bleat aimlessly until it is tired of the routine.

Back to Garissa 4 terrorists attack 800, fairly homogenous, able bodied men and women, in confined spaces. They go on a shooting spree for 10 hours. Even had the time to tell victims to call their relatives and recite their last prayers.

Knowing that the terrorists will never stop shooting until they run out of bullets, would the fatalities and injuries have been fewer if the students had put up resistance? I think so.

IMO Simple strategies like raising alarm, blowing whistles, shouting, causing a rackus and mounting an active resistance would have reduced casualties.



@Sparkly had a discussion about this yesterday and majority of the peeps were like you,d rather fight as the outcome is usually certain death,the imbeciles can never forgive you...Flight 93 during 9-11 was a clear example the death toll would have been much higher than the 3000 if the crew and passengers did not fight back...but typing this from the comfort of my home makes it look easy...face to face with gun weilding shaababs am sure all faculties fail.


@Maka I agree it would take training. Not easy to disarm a terrorist if you do not have some basic weapon handling skills but these can be taught.
Life is short. Live passionately.
sparkly
#14 Posted : Monday, April 06, 2015 5:18:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Much Know wrote:
After September 11 plane hijackings, i believe this idea of "not cooperating/forcibly resisting" terrorist in a hostage situation was widely promoted. Because at the end of they day they will kill you, it is better, the analyst said, to go for the terrorist, chances of survival for you are higher! unlike a robbery case where you cooperate.


@Much Know any follow ups on this approach? Maybe the Americans can share their protocols.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Mukiri
#15 Posted : Monday, April 06, 2015 7:46:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
Kenyans are a unique bunch of people.

An overloaded bus will be driven recklessly while the people sit quietly and watch as death comes.
A company's head/politician will steal with impunity, as people watch, while they know very well their very livelihood is at stake.
Someone will come to your house, sleep with your wife and leave, while you just stare.

Infact, experiment. Go to a Church/pub/Wazua etc and abuse everyone there, then leave. Chances are high no one will do anything to you.

Proverbs 19:21
Ngalaka
#16 Posted : Monday, April 06, 2015 8:38:12 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
I agree.
A multitude caught up in a terrorist attact should fight back as much as it is reasonable to do so.
The authorities should diseminate info to that effect via the mass media.
Over to u UK
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
tycho
#17 Posted : Tuesday, April 07, 2015 5:59:48 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
tycho wrote:
Know yourself and the enemy and you can win all battles. The students were not an organized force. They weren't many in effect. Each was alone.


@Tycho should we then shift emphasis on how to make crowds one in our institutions and in public places like malls? A sort of "first aid" before Recce show up?


Let me start by reminding us that any given event or state of affairs is just one possibility among many possibilities mediated by the mind. That is, it's possible for a mind to create the events and situations it wishes at any time. An army is basically a mind with a specified wish and a script of action.

So we should always begin by questioning the quantum of being that we're holding. Like is the recce world the only world we can have? Why is such a world necessary?

Am saying this out of my observations from an on going project that am currently engaged in about the human mind in general and mine specifically. One powerful discovery has been that the 'unconscious' follows or submits to the 'conscious'. And that at a certain point the 'unconscious' may overwhelm the 'conscious' if the latter hasn't been or isn't well controlled and ordered; hence causing unintended and or contradictory effects.

The easy way is not to create terrorists, but if we create them we must accept that we have created victims; and once we've created victims does it matter how these victims will behave?




madollar
#18 Posted : Tuesday, April 07, 2015 4:54:40 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 2,040
Location: GA
Ngalaka wrote:
I agree.
A multitude caught up in a terrorist attact should fight back as much as it is reasonable to do so.
The authorities should diseminate info to that effect via the mass media.
Over to u UK

a few years back there was this gang that used to raid construction sites with pistols and lala chini routine usually on fridays when mjengo workers are paid their luck ran out when the workers decided to fight them somewhere in kilimani some of them were stoned to death for the shabaab that moment is coming with every attack kenyans are becoming more alert
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