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Waitiki land saga..
freiks
#31 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 10:36:19 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,734
Simple Waitiki demands for compensation, the land already under squatters, then let them remain there and let waitiki wait for compensation and see who gives in first
Life is an endless adventure
jaggernaut
#32 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 10:56:47 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
The govt has declared waitiki's land as public land to be used to settle "squatters". Govt should therefore compensate him at market rates. Just like it did to those whose land it took to build the SGR. And 10B is fair compensation since that is only 10m per acre. I don't know why the govt wants to pay him only 800m which is less than 1m per acre.

Also all the other IDPs whose lands were forcibly taken should be compensated. Not just Waitiki, Muteshi and that judge in kitale.
Ngong
#33 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 10:59:01 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2012
Posts: 1,461
Location: Ngong Forest
freiks wrote:
Simple Waitiki demands for compensation, the land already under squatters, then let them remain there and let waitiki wait for compensation and see who gives in first


Why are people using the word squatters?
These are NOT,and for us who know the area its like zimmerman or githurai estate or even better!
Ngong
#34 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 11:01:11 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2012
Posts: 1,461
Location: Ngong Forest
jaggernaut wrote:
The govt has declared waitiki's land as public land to be used to settle "squatters". Govt should therefore compensate him at market rates. Just like it did to those whose land it took to build the SGR. And 10B is fair compensation since that is only 10m per acre. I don't know why the govt wants to pay him only 800m which is less than 1m per acre.


They are buying time wishing him to get ebolasmile
Rahatupu
#35 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 11:53:33 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Kusadikika wrote:


I will be a bit blunt here now but it is this idiocy exhibited by @Rahatupu to call historical injustice a fallacy that is at the heart of many land problems. It is in the interests of those who own land, any land even the small plots of lands to have a compassionate interest in the resolution of the land question. To understand that the platform on which your rights to own land and property stands also supports the rights of other people from being disenfranchised and dispossessed.

As it is the only people who agitate for land reforms are those who have been dispossessed and the only solution they seem to offer is the one described by @jagger above. The land owners on the other hand @Rahatupu and co think that there is no problem to be resolved and the landless squatters should go hang.

My argument is that those who own land should have a greater interest in the matter than that shown by Rahatupu. They should be at the forefront in advocating for resolutions in the form of re settlements or compensation for the squatters. I don't claim to know what the correct way to handle the matter is but engagement is important. Waitiki has a greater responsibility than to sit with his title like a victim and demand 10 billion shillings for his land. He should be more engaged than that.

I am sure Rahatupu would have some respect for a man like John Kibunga Kimani. Here is a man who has worked and saved to become a billionaire but still understands that you cannot wish away the problem of squatters.


@Kusadikika , My great grandfather and their entire clan were evicted from Karen Hardy area by Karen Blixen and company as early as 1905. They were squeezed in the current areas of Dagoretti, Thogoto and Kikuyu. Now advise me in a very pragmatic way how these people can be compensated before we come to Waitiki's case that is more straightforward.
That Waitiki bought the land is not in question. That no people occupied the same prior to the Muhindi is not in question. That the so called squatters are economic migrants seeking false "haki yao" is open for all to see.
REAL squatters exist only within the Sheriani vipi no areas where they were subjects of forced labour by both the Mazrui and later colonial administrations. All other coastal populations are landed people like the Maasai but their land is not titled.
Rahatupu
#36 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 11:56:19 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Kusadikika wrote:


I will be a bit blunt here now but it is this idiocy exhibited by @Rahatupu to call historical injustice a fallacy that is at the heart of many land problems. It is in the interests of those who own land, any land even the small plots of lands to have a compassionate interest in the resolution of the land question. To understand that the platform on which your rights to own land and property stands also supports the rights of other people from being disenfranchised and dispossessed.

As it is the only people who agitate for land reforms are those who have been dispossessed and the only solution they seem to offer is the one described by @jagger above. The land owners on the other hand @Rahatupu and co think that there is no problem to be resolved and the landless squatters should go hang.

My argument is that those who own land should have a greater interest in the matter than that shown by Rahatupu. They should be at the forefront in advocating for resolutions in the form of re settlements or compensation for the squatters. I don't claim to know what the correct way to handle the matter is but engagement is important. Waitiki has a greater responsibility than to sit with his title like a victim and demand 10 billion shillings for his land. He should be more engaged than that.

I am sure Rahatupu would have some respect for a man like John Kibunga Kimani. Here is a man who has worked and saved to become a billionaire but still understands that you cannot wish away the problem of squatters.

Ngong
#37 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 3:47:54 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2012
Posts: 1,461
Location: Ngong Forest
vin wrote:
@ wanyee,nimeona ukichungulia.Kaburoti kakitajwa ndio unatkelezea?Urioho mundu?


Anaogopa kufinywa ninio!
kiash
#38 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 3:55:03 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 951
Location: Nyumbani
jaggernaut wrote:
sheri wrote:
The land issue is an emotive one but on the other hand the issue of squatters especially in kenya is thorny. majority of squatters at one time had land but sold it. Greed and corruption run deep even among the poor. Watiki land should be valued at market rate and he should also be compensated for loss of income for all those years.
N/B In 20 years to come maasai's in kajiado will be squatters. That is what current research pointed at. Then they will start invoking "historical injustices"

The maasai have already started complaining about "injustices" after squandering the money from land sales:

www.standardmedia.co.ke/...and%20despair/lifestyle/

www.standardmedia.co.ke/...n%20Kajiado/thecounties/



It all goes down to education.Those guys who got titles in coast, am sure some of them have already sold them.Then come 2030 or before they will be crying out loud sisi ni squatters.The masais will be doing the same soon. Then people like kusadidkia will come and yell here ati the gava bla bla bla !

@kusadikika have you ever been along beach road in Diani? The land on the sea front is owned by rich kenyans and foreigners and when you cross the road , you find the mijikendas in their makuti huts. They sold the land and ate the money. Now they survive on fishing and mangoes !!
Kusadikika
#39 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 4:36:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,723
Rahatupu wrote:
Kusadikika wrote:


I will be a bit blunt here now but it is this idiocy exhibited by @Rahatupu to call historical injustice a fallacy that is at the heart of many land problems. It is in the interests of those who own land, any land even the small plots of lands to have a compassionate interest in the resolution of the land question. To understand that the platform on which your rights to own land and property stands also supports the rights of other people from being disenfranchised and dispossessed.

As it is the only people who agitate for land reforms are those who have been dispossessed and the only solution they seem to offer is the one described by @jagger above. The land owners on the other hand @Rahatupu and co think that there is no problem to be resolved and the landless squatters should go hang.

My argument is that those who own land should have a greater interest in the matter than that shown by Rahatupu. They should be at the forefront in advocating for resolutions in the form of re settlements or compensation for the squatters. I don't claim to know what the correct way to handle the matter is but engagement is important. Waitiki has a greater responsibility than to sit with his title like a victim and demand 10 billion shillings for his land. He should be more engaged than that.

I am sure Rahatupu would have some respect for a man like John Kibunga Kimani. Here is a man who has worked and saved to become a billionaire but still understands that you cannot wish away the problem of squatters.


@Kusadikika , My great grandfather and their entire clan were evicted from Karen Hardy area by Karen Blixen and company as early as 1905. They were squeezed in the current areas of Dagoretti, Thogoto and Kikuyu. Now advise me in a very pragmatic way how these people can be compensated before we come to Waitiki's case that is more straightforward.
That Waitiki bought the land is not in question. That no people occupied the same prior to the Muhindi is not in question. That the so called squatters are economic migrants seeking false "haki yao" is open for all to see.
REAL squatters exist only within the Sheriani vipi no areas where they were subjects of forced labour by both the Mazrui and later colonial administrations. All other coastal populations are landed people like the Maasai but their land is not titled.


A good starting point would be proper research and documentation of who and how big this issue of squatters is. I pointed out the Waitiki issue because it the simplest and most straightforward where a conflict has arisen. There are other more complex issues in places like you mention and it becomes even more complicated when it comes to the city slums and as someone mentioned places like Kajiado coming soon.

It is very convenient to label all landless people as once having land which they were stupid enough to sell and now they are causing problems. When everybody is put in this basket then again a very easy and convenient solution of Shauri yao is prescribed and it works very well until you are a Waitiki and one day people invade your property and evict you.

It is not an easy solution but my argument is that all people who own land, if you have bought land in Kajiado or Karen or wherever and there are displaced people, slums, squatters in your area you should be concerned enough and engaged enough to want to find a solution.

I do not have a step by step solution for each case. Some people will need re settlement some cases may involve slum upgrading projects and proper tenancy laws some may involve digging boreholes for the Maasai. Whatever it is do not feel comfortable when there are landless people hanging around your property and the more property you have the more you should be proactively concerned and engaged.
murchr
#40 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 6:21:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
@Kusadikika You need to stop being emotive and look at the land matter in a more clear way. There is a class of people who call themselves "poor" "squatters" who are land grabbers by profession and they are out to blackmail people using politics. I will give you an example. I grew up in SouthB. Railway quarters to be exact. I saw part of Golden gate being constructed and Riverbank phase I and II.

The slum called Mukuru was non-existent, the river bank land there was bare just grass, you could see industrial area from RTI. When Riverbank Phase II was under construction, we noticed some mabati structures that we all assumed belonged to the workers building the houses, so it was ignored. With time the structures grew...all were on the other side of the river (bordering Industrial area), then came Hazina and the structures just blew out.

Now, if you've entered the houses at River bank, the front gate and living room faces Mukuru, the squatters have encroached and have built their Kiosks to the gates of the residents, forcing them to remodel their houses to accommodate this. The city council demolished the kiosks but Sonko gave them money to rebuild, which they did. Where were these squatters from? Tell me why the govt shouldn't compensate the Riverbank Home owners?

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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