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Security Laws Amendment Bill
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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Swenani wrote:alma wrote:ecstacy wrote:That Bill is not perfect and that is why your legislators exist and the constitutional court. MPs still collecting citizen views. Take yours there.
BTW: when some vocal Wazuans were loudly wondering how Uganda and Ethiopia deal better with Al Shabaab, did you imagine it was by hand holding?..
Meanwhile, Twitter shut down the known accounts of pro-ISIS and pro-Al Shabaab individuals whilst police in Bangalore, India, have today arrested Mehdi Masroor for running an ISIL Twitter handle pushing their pro-Jihadi extremism SO what about the freedoms of these individuals to express themselves? To secure Kenya with its modern day security challenge with enemies within borders, you have to give up some freedoms, not all.
We simply cannot have it both ways. We begin somewhere reasonable and hope to strike the right balance. No bill is perfect. But we the vocal ones did not anywhere in our noise tell you to restrict our rights to assemble and say what we think. I personally have never used Uganda as an SI unit of Kenya. I have never used any country as the SI unit of Kenya. You will be shocked to learn I'm in the school of thought of Masukuma who believes Africans are a superior being. Being Kenya I believe Kenya should lead the way. We thrive in this country because of assembly and different ideas, tribes, and religions. Don't kill that with some of the provisions in this bill. Don't kill the right of assembly and publishing because you are not happy with Boniface Mwangi and Nation. You cannot tell me that you want us to follow Twitter terms and conditions as the basis of our constitution. Ecstacy I promise you this. I love posting on wazua, coz I love hearing what other people are thinking. I love going to Jeevanjee gardens to listen to the various groups of opinions in that place. I learn a lot. We are one. Do not make your hate of a specific individual or group mean that now you give your rights to this or any gov't. Go back, remove those sections on privacy and assembly and publishing. You will be surprised to see how we support you the hilt. Lakini go the Moi way.........Ask him. Very well said Mr Alma, Kunywa FAXE tano on jaggernaut's tab! Someday one day I pray every day...after Faxe....that Kenyans will understand that matters of security and your rights should never have a political tag. Politics is politics and we can argue forever on who is Baba and who is Kamwana. Those things affect no one, but ttheir families and tenderprenuers. There is no way on this earth that I can agree with you 1100% of the time unless I'm a butt kisser and shagger. There are extremely good things in this law that need to be implemented NOW. However, someone somewhere has decided that my rights to picket and publish are terrorist in nature. Sorry, I'm not in that school of thought. Mr. President, the one I've been assured reads Wazua....This bill is excellent until you add those privacy issues. You are President, I'm a citizen. You have never dealt with a Kenyan policeman. I have....I do not want to give aany policeman the right to decide where I should complain about my boss.....ok I don't have a boss but I hope you understand what I'm saying.... Aged wine is good, because it is aged. This rush, will affect someone in your coalition very very soon. I want to picket. I want to publish. I want to think that Al Shabaab hates me because I exercise my rights as a human being. Remove those things and yes security starts with me....But don't make me become one of the many of your voters who are wondering, why the hell should I wake up at 5am in the morning in 2017. I didn't vote for you and never will. But I assure you, I know you are 100% going to lose votes with this bill. Worse, if any attack happens after, hata sijui niseme nini. Tell the drafters to assure you 100% that after telling me not to picket, there will not be a terrorist attack in Kenya.....All you will hear will be crickets. If after my right to picket is withdrawn and there are never ever any terrorist attacks in Kenya. I promise you to walk naked in Uhuru Highway in 2022. Ni Hayo tu. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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jaggernaut wrote:I am with baba and cord, civil society etc on this issue. We say a big NO. Alot of blood was shed for the freedoms that we enjoy today. Ouru shouldn't curtail citizen's freedoms just because his govt has been hopeless in fighting insecurity, where citizens are being beheaded each day. He should pull up his socks and sort out the issue with the current laws which have served us well for past 50yrs. His own father successfully sorted the shifta issue in the 70s with the old laws. He should go back to Gatondo if things have become hot at statehouse. Then we put baba....... Do not know if to laugh at this or just  You might be with baba and other NGO's when you say he should pull up his socks, what dos that mean ? The shifta thing you say was sijui in the 70's today's threat is no longer the same as the shifta's. Did the shiftas come to Nai? no . Things change with time. Am sure you are not driving the Datsun you dad had in the 70's you have changed with the times. So should be the laws but if its just opposing something just for the sake, then do not come back here and ask why did the police not act on intel from NSIS.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Mtafiti wrote:alma wrote:I'm a firm believer in laws being made for citizens. Not boogeymen.
Terrorists will not hold a meeting in town. They will not seek a permit from the OCPD. They will not hold a public procession about poor pay in your office.
That is why I agree with Washiku. A bit of sober debating is required and surely rushing this bill serves no one. Even the ones in power right now.
Sober analysis for the sake of all is needed.
I still don't understand how a landlord can rent out his home without checking on the credentials of whoever has rented his house. That's a no no and if its law, that also protects the property owner.
But I don't see what my rights to privacy and my rights to free assembly have got to do with terrorism.
Infact, these two rights are the very same rights that Al-Shabaab wants to curtail. Tafakari hayo.
Jubilee needs to remember very clearly. That Moi was removed because of the silly laws and that special branch that used to arrest people in bars.
Arming an NSIS officer who comes to my house and makes me disappear because I posted something on wazua is not going to be a strange thing. Even the NSIS needs to follow the law. I don't really mind or care about arming them but they have to follow the law when dealing with any citizen. Kenya is not a gulag.
However, if they think they are immune to citizen discord, all I can say is that its ok to try. Just don't blame Raila.
Terrorists never follow the law. That's why they are terrorists. But I don't see why I should be gagged from expressing myself simply because someone is not happy with my gory pictures. Whoever that someone is.
Yesterday I saw the President miming "mzurii mamaaa ahhh, sura yako mzuriiii mamaa ahhhh". But I'm sure some Catholic priest and a Kadhi found that to be rather gory.
Be careful with this bill.
There are some excellent provisions for the modern day world.
But if that means that Kenyans to a man give their rights to the gov't, then rest assured, some day some how, maybe not this president. Some president you don't like, will use these laws on you. Moi's term expired, per Katiba a then. That said, can dissenters draft a model bill and share it with Jubilee as a guide. Yapping, howling and hollering will not add value to anything. I doubt whether drafting an alternative is the best thing to do. Let's not go that way. But Jubilee should consider public opinion and act accordingly.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2012 Posts: 1,317
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I support this bill. Just a few technical issues to smoothen rough edges.
Humans by nature detest rules & regulations even if they are for their benefit.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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kollabo wrote:I support this bill. Just a few technical issues to smoothen rough edges.
Humans by nature detest rules & regulations even if they are for their benefit. I actually detest being called a "humans". I think I have explained to you why this bill is a poison chalaise. Which are these "technical issues" that need to be "smoothen" I have said that there are some great things in this bill, cum youth bill combined. But the tea is too sweet. Or do you honestly in your day dreams believe that Jubilee will rule for the next 15 yrs? listen, shit happens in politics. Kamwana was having selfies and even Washiku was crying bloody murder. Create rules that make sense. I will say this without fear. The first people to feal the pain of this bill will not be terrorists. It will be guys like you and me when you discover than having a Sunday women's group means you give the cop some money or uko ndani for 20yrs. When you go out to Karumaindo...Cops comes in. You give him 1k or you find yourself SUSPECTED of terrorism. You have too many FAXE and the drunk NSIS guy next to you who wants you girl DETAINS you for 365 days because he SUSPECTS, you are a terrorist. Please don't say that these things can't happen. Some of us grew up during Moi's time. We know shit happens. I personally have problems with that period. I saw what it did to my family first hand. In the meantime, the Nation and the Standard were saying how, "UNITED" Kenya was. I am not a terrorist. But I'm 100% sure that I am in the list of "funny guys" on the internet. This bill moves me from "funny guys" to "lost guys" because of security. No one should ever forget this is 2014 going onto 2015. Some rights even in China, cannot be rolled back. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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The president swore to protect the constitution, and to protect us. That could sometimes proof a tricky balance, and that is why the constitution created structures that checks on him and others that advises him. Yesterday he said he expects Kenyans opinions. In fact, he said CIC went to see him to explain to him the sections that are not right(thus there might be amendments at the committee stage). It pays to advise the president well, its for the good of all that. In fact, he is personally asking for it. It thus scares me when people get afraid when the president is corrected. There are perfect sections of this law. But there are some that are ambiguous, others could be directly attack the constitution. That is why we need experts to advise us and the president correctly. There is no need to pass a Bill only to have people on the streets and in the courts for the next one year. That will be time wasted, time that we dont have. We need the right laws in place as soon as yesterday, we thus dont have time for un-necessary confrontations. This can be done very easily. We have CIC, we have the AG, The parliament and right thinking Kenyans. I personally feel there issues that we should ALWAYS agree to resolve in one voice as a country without the usual politicking, and SECURITY is number one.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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alma wrote:I'm a firm believer in laws being made for citizens. Not boogeymen.
Terrorists will not hold a meeting in town. They will not seek a permit from the OCPD. They will not hold a public procession about poor pay in your office.
That is why I agree with Washiku. A bit of sober debating is required and surely rushing this bill serves no one. Even the ones in power right now.
Sober analysis for the sake of all is needed.
I still don't understand how a landlord can rent out his home without checking on the credentials of whoever has rented his house. That's a no no and if its law, that also protects the property owner.
But I don't see what my rights to privacy and my rights to free assembly have got to do with terrorism.
Infact, these two rights are the very same rights that Al-Shabaab wants to curtail. Tafakari hayo.
Jubilee needs to remember very clearly. That Moi was removed because of the silly laws and that special branch that used to arrest people in bars.
Arming an NSIS officer who comes to my house and makes me disappear because I posted something on wazua is not going to be a strange thing. Even the NSIS needs to follow the law. I don't really mind or care about arming them but they have to follow the law when dealing with any citizen. Kenya is not a gulag.
However, if they think they are immune to citizen discord, all I can say is that its ok to try. Just don't blame Raila.
Terrorists never follow the law. That's why they are terrorists. But I don't see why I should be gagged from expressing myself simply because someone is not happy with my gory pictures. Whoever that someone is.
Yesterday I saw the President miming "mzurii mamaaa ahhh, sura yako mzuriiii mamaa ahhhh". But I'm sure some Catholic priest and a Kadhi found that to be rather gory.
Be careful with this bill.
There are some excellent provisions for the modern day world.
But if that means that Kenyans to a man give their rights to the gov't, then rest assured, some day some how, maybe not this president. Some president you don't like, will use these laws on you. Oohhhhh! Its now that I understand the Alphdoti-for-president idea in some other thread elsewhere! Man! Anyhow ,,,,,,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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washiku wrote:The president swore to protect the constitution, and to protect us. That could sometimes proof a tricky balance, and that is why the constitution created structures that checks on him and others that advises him. Yesterday he said he expects Kenyans opinions. In fact, he said CIC went to see him to explain to him the sections that are not right(thus there might be amendments at the committee stage). It pays to advise the president well, its for the good of all that. In fact, he is personally asking for it. It thus scares me when people get afraid when the president is corrected. There are perfect sections of this law. But there are some that are ambiguous, others could be directly attack the constitution. That is why we need experts to advise us and the president correctly. There is no need to pass a Bill only to have people on the streets and in the courts for the next one year. That will be time wasted, time that we dont have. We need the right laws in place as soon as yesterday, we thus dont have time for un-necessary confrontations. This can be done very easily. We have CIC, we have the AG, The parliament and right thinking Kenyans. I personally feel there issues that we should ALWAYS agree to resolve in one voice as a country without the usual politicking, and SECURITY is number one. 
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