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Why I support President Uhuru on security
Rank: Member Joined: 6/14/2010 Posts: 521 Location: Nairobi
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Rollout wrote:The problem is bigger than what we all want to point at, it's the same problem that drive poor service delivery across the government and it's going to take alot more to change it not just community policing.
To me, I think the biggest problem is incentive system. As simple as it may look, poor/unfair incentive system drive alot more than we pay attention to.
1. Police take bribes most of them in order to feed their families, if you pay police, Kshs 30k and you pay a politician kshs 3M there is a problem 2. Doctors are never present in Hospitals because they have to take other jobs to meet their basic needs, if you build a kshs 0.5 Billion to retired politicians and you can't pay enough to Health care professional and equip hospitals, then don't expect better services
3. It's the poor choices made by government, year in year out, with the support of it's people. You and I.
Until we fix the incentive systems, you're not going to attract the best talents to provide good services to Kenyans. Don't blame the police for taking bribes. Its greed that is eating us. We always want more and more than what we are offered. Why do millionaires steal? Why do we have so many scandals in Kenya from the rich and mighty. Its Greed. This greed is slowly eating us away. If you're greedy nothing stops you from wanting more no matter how much you have in your mouth.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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The optimist wrote:Rollout wrote:The problem is bigger than what we all want to point at, it's the same problem that drive poor service delivery across the government and it's going to take alot more to change it not just community policing.
To me, I think the biggest problem is incentive system. As simple as it may look, poor/unfair incentive system drive alot more than we pay attention to.
1. Police take bribes most of them in order to feed their families, if you pay police, Kshs 30k and you pay a politician kshs 3M there is a problem 2. Doctors are never present in Hospitals because they have to take other jobs to meet their basic needs, if you build a kshs 0.5 Billion to retired politicians and you can't pay enough to Health care professional and equip hospitals, then don't expect better services
3. It's the poor choices made by government, year in year out, with the support of it's people. You and I.
Until we fix the incentive systems, you're not going to attract the best talents to provide good services to Kenyans. Don't blame the police for taking bribes. Its greed that is eating us. We always want more and more than what we are offered. Why do millionaires steal? Why do we have so many scandals in Kenya from the rich and mighty. Its Greed. This greed is slowly eating us away. If you're greedy nothing stops you from wanting more no matter how much you have in your mouth. “People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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The optimist wrote:Rollout wrote:The problem is bigger than what we all want to point at, it's the same problem that drive poor service delivery across the government and it's going to take alot more to change it not just community policing.
To me, I think the biggest problem is incentive system. As simple as it may look, poor/unfair incentive system drive alot more than we pay attention to.
1. Police take bribes most of them in order to feed their families, if you pay police, Kshs 30k and you pay a politician kshs 3M there is a problem 2. Doctors are never present in Hospitals because they have to take other jobs to meet their basic needs, if you build a kshs 0.5 Billion to retired politicians and you can't pay enough to Health care professional and equip hospitals, then don't expect better services
3. It's the poor choices made by government, year in year out, with the support of it's people. You and I.
Until we fix the incentive systems, you're not going to attract the best talents to provide good services to Kenyans. Don't blame the police for taking bribes. Its greed that is eating us. We always want more and more than what we are offered. Why do millionaires steal? Why do we have so many scandals in Kenya from the rich and mighty. Its Greed. This greed is slowly eating us away. If you're greedy nothing stops you from wanting more no matter how much you have in your mouth. Does greed have something to do with an inner perception of scarcity? http://m.newser.com/stor...ich-is-a-great-pain.html
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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@baratang, Do not compare kenya’s situation to that of Botswana directly. We have also hosted refugees from Rwanda, Uganda and Sudan. None of these were like the Somalis. Somalis are a different lot, by nature these are merchants and Muslim by religion. I see that we need to do the following basic things: 1) Change mind-sets of our Somali and Muslim Youth. We need to see Muslim leaders coming out more in the open to denounce the version of jihad advocated by alqaeda and alshabab. Perhaps they need to run features in national newspapers, appear on TV& Radio, introduce changes in curriculum, include corrective teachings in mosques and classrooms. 2) The govt need to do a lot more to curb unemployment. Our population is increasing by 1million every year, hence we need to create 1 million + jobs every year to absorb everyone. I believe it is possible – lowering cost of doing business and investing more in industries that do not require high skilled workforce e.g textile industry, agriculture, etc etc. Why can’t we aim to supply the whole of Africa with apparels and dairy products, for instance? 3) Eliminate culture of corruption amongst public servants, starting with police. It is possible. 4) Draw a timeframe within which to recall our troops from Somalia. The more we stay, the more we give alshabab and warlords reason to continue plotting attacks in Kenya. The ‘enemy’ as far as shebab is concerned has ceased being American or western, but Kenyan. But we are as good and will do as much as the leaders we have put in place. We may not go an inch beyond what they dream and conceptualise.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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The pressure will increase until Kenyans collectively say enough is enough and find a solution or until Al Shabab takes over territory similar to what ISIS is doing. Uhuru continues to fiddle his fingers while the country is burning. Kenyans got themselves in this mess by turning politics into a ManU - Arsenal kind of game and not thinking about the future of their children when voting.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/6/2013 Posts: 640
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mv_ufanisi wrote:The pressure will increase until Kenyans collectively say enough is enough and find a solution or until Al Shabab takes over territory similar to what ISIS is doing. Uhuru continues to fiddle his fingers while the country is burning. Kenyans got themselves in this mess by turning politics into a ManU - Arsenal kind of game and not thinking about the future of their children when voting. Your point(s) is/are not clear at all. Its all good.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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C&P A policeman was shot dead and another seriously wounded in a fresh attack by suspected Al shabaab militias near at Dagahale near the Dadaab refugee camp on Saturday. "The attackers were on foot, and trailed the officers for about 100 metres (yards) before firing at them at a close range," regional police official Musa Yego said. The injured officer was rushed to Garissa County hospital by Red Cross rescue team. Yego said the attackers were thought to be Al Shabaab members or sympathisers. The attackers are said to have disappeared into a refugee camp. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...ack#sthash.3NVjyN56.dpuf
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/6/2009 Posts: 587
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Am wrote:Baratang wrote:Hi members.
I listened to the presidents speech on security and after deep thought I realised he knew what he was talking about. Although at some point he was angry he was right.
The reason why I am saying this is because i have seen what he is advising working elsewhere. Let me be specific.
I first set my foot in Botswana in 1986, during which time I was a very young man but adventurous, stayed until the year 2009 when I decided to come back to Kenya.
For all those years that I stayed in Botswana, the presidents Masire, Mogae and even Ian Khama rarely talked about security within and at the borders.
You see in the late 80s and early 90s, the political situation in Southern Africa was chaotic, South Africa was not good due to the apertheid regime and freedom struggle, in Namibia as people were fighting for independence and in Angola as the civil war ranged. In all the cases freedom fighters and other people were crossing over to Botswana as it was seen to be the safest. In early to mid 90s things in Zimbabwe started moving from worse to worst and the result more immigrants to Botswana.
All in all more than a half a million emigrants crossed over to Botswana through the gazetted border points and others unaccounted for through panya routes, but how did Botswana manage to maintain the safety of its citizen despite that huge number of foreigners/immigrants influx and being a country surrounded by politically unstable states at the time:
1.Socially (a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody. If a local noticed a neighbour who was hardly seen he/she reported it to the nearest police station and Immigration and the two bodies immediately swung into action.
(b) It was in law that each and every plot Land Registration (LR) No be conspicuously displayed at the point of entry (gates or doors). When you filled any forms be it employment, utilities or any other application forms the most important social data was your name and physical address (residential LR No, the Road and estate). The landlords were required by the law to keep a database on their foreigner tenants and were required to share it with the immigration. This way the government knew who was staying where and when they needed you they came for you at any time.
(c) If foreigners sought asylum as refugees then they remained in the refugee camp, no mingling with other people. If you were caught, and it was established that you have refugee status, repatriation right away.
(d) The Batswana fear and respect the law. It spares no one, not the rich, not the poor, not the mighty. It was applied equally to all irrespective of their social status.
(e) Botswana was and is still the least corrupt country in Africa. When it came to getting services which you needed by right, nobody claimed to be doing you any favour and everybody kept off from corruption. Under such circumstances, they ran a very efficient impartial public service and police force.
2. Commercially... (a) A local could and would not sell any land or property to a foreigner. No law prohibited them from doing it, but this intention was to keep foreigners from owning anything in that country and consequently keeping them at bay.
(b) Any company that intended to buy any property had to have a majority stake owned by citizens. NB majority shareholder meant more than 70%.
(c) The labour laws were and are still very strict. No company irrespective of the owners (whether foreign or locally owned) was allowed to employ foreigners in posts whose job skills and expertise was locally available.
If we draw political paralells between Kenya and Botswana we have almost everything in common. I know most of us will still argue that our social structures are completely different but when it comes to matters security this goes beyond social structures. Security is a collective effort and responsibility between the citizenry and the government.
Let us sit back as Kenyans and do a little reflection. Socially and commercially, where have we succeeded in assisting the government of the day to give us the security that we need.
Let us discuss this objectively and soberly. Wear a steel helmet. To many you are a sycophant, ''a Mundu wa Nyumba'' , a mountaineer! @ Am Don't worry friend. I will not need any helmet. To start with, I am not from anywhere near the mountain, but the alternative mountain...kwa Governor Mruttu.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Well, if you can't blame Raila, then blame the mzungu next! So predictable this PResidency... Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/6/2009 Posts: 587
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alma wrote:Very nice...."discussion". What are you discussing? We know the problem it starts from your point 1 Quote:1.Socially (a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody. If a local noticed a neighbour who was hardly seen he/she reported it to the nearest police station and Immigration and the two bodies immediately swung into action. What we are trying to tell this selfie and hashtag gov't is that your points other points will never work until point 1(a) is implemented. That is Uhurus work. Even yesterday Bellow Kerrow was adamant that as long as the police and security don't seem to respond, no amount of speeches and social re-engineering will work. So lets start the "discussion" with point 1 (a) How do I implement that one given that I'm a simple citizen? Very simple if you ask me. Embrace the Nyumba Kumi model that you Kenyans are so much opposed to. On another note when we introduced the new constitution hardly did we know that we had badly clipped the presidents powers to a bare minimum. So let us stop ranting when it is very clear that we are the source of the problem. A simple case in point: A neighbours notorious son scaled the boundary wall into my residential an year ago and made away with some commodities and I reported the theft to the police (I chose to go to police and not the president as @alma would want me to). I made some investigations and traced the stolen materials to my neighbours residential. I reported the findings to the police station and they made the arrest immediately after the son admitted the materials were his. In the police station, the thief's parents were busy trying to bribe the police to release their son. unfortunately, the officer on duty could not do anything as I was there too waiting to confirm that the thief has been booked to appear in a court. At the police station he was slapped with a kshs 10k bond to appear in court the following day (as per the new constitution). In the court the thief pleaded not guilty and was release on kshs 50k court bail and the magistrate put the case mention to a month later. Ten days later the thief was involved in a robbery about a km away from my home and the same process followed. After this I came to understand the young man has other three court cases which had not been finalised. To cut a long story short, the law as it is now coupled with the new constitution is favouring the criminals and terrorists. Who came up with that constitution, it was gentlemen and gentle ladies!! Not the president or his deputy or the cabinet secretaries. Who amended the law to be in line with the prevailing constitution? Again gentlemen and gentleladies!! Not the president/deputy or the cabinet secretaries. Is it not the citizens THEMSELVES who okeyed the constitution?
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Why I support President Uhuru on security
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