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Why I support President Uhuru on security
Baratang
#1 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 11:54:26 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
Hi members.

I listened to the presidents speech on security and after deep thought I realised he knew what he was talking about. Although at some point he was angry he was right.

The reason why I am saying this is because i have seen what he is advising working elsewhere. Let me be specific.

I first set my foot in Botswana in 1986, during which time I was a very young man but adventurous, stayed until the year 2009 when I decided to come back to Kenya.

For all those years that I stayed in Botswana, the presidents Masire, Mogae and even Ian Khama rarely talked about security within and at the borders.

You see in the late 80s and early 90s, the political situation in Southern Africa was chaotic, South Africa was not good due to the apertheid regime and freedom struggle, in Namibia as people were fighting for independence and in Angola as the civil war ranged. In all the cases freedom fighters and other people were crossing over to Botswana as it was seen to be the safest. In early to mid 90s things in Zimbabwe started moving from worse to worst and the result more immigrants to Botswana.

All in all more than a half a million emigrants crossed over to Botswana through the gazetted border points and others unaccounted for through panya routes, but how did Botswana manage to maintain the safety of its citizen despite that huge number of foreigners/immigrants influx and being a country surrounded by politically unstable states at the time:

1.Socially
(a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody. If a local noticed a neighbour who was hardly seen he/she reported it to the nearest police station and Immigration and the two bodies immediately swung into action.

(b) It was in law that each and every plot Land Registration (LR) No be conspicuously displayed at the point of entry (gates or doors). When you filled any forms be it employment, utilities or any other application forms the most important social data was your name and physical address (residential LR No, the Road and estate). The landlords were required by the law to keep a database on their foreigner tenants and were required to share it with the immigration. This way the government knew who was staying where and when they needed you they came for you at any time.

(c) If foreigners sought asylum as refugees then they remained in the refugee camp, no mingling with other people. If you were caught, and it was established that you have refugee status, repatriation right away.

(d) The Batswana fear and respect the law. It spares no one, not the rich, not the poor, not the mighty. It was applied equally to all irrespective of their social status.

(e) Botswana was and is still the least corrupt country in Africa. When it came to getting services which you needed by right, nobody claimed to be doing you any favour and everybody kept off from corruption. Under such circumstances, they ran a very efficient impartial public service and police force.

2. Commercially...
(a) A local could and would not sell any land or property to a foreigner. No law prohibited them from doing it, but this intention was to keep foreigners from owning anything in that country and consequently keeping them at bay.

(b) Any company that intended to buy any property had to have a majority stake owned by citizens. NB majority shareholder meant more than 70%.

(c) The labour laws were and are still very strict. No company irrespective of the owners (whether foreign or locally owned) was allowed to employ foreigners in posts whose job skills and expertise was locally available.

If we draw political paralells between Kenya and Botswana we have almost everything in common. I know most of us will still argue that our social structures are completely different but when it comes to matters security this goes beyond social structures. Security is a collective effort and responsibility between the citizenry and the government.

Let us sit back as Kenyans and do a little reflection. Socially and commercially, where have we succeeded in assisting the government of the day to give us the security that we need.

Let us discuss this objectively and soberly.
Am
#2 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:26:43 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/21/2012
Posts: 1,739
Baratang wrote:
Hi members.

I listened to the presidents speech on security and after deep thought I realised he knew what he was talking about. Although at some point he was angry he was right.

The reason why I am saying this is because i have seen what he is advising working elsewhere. Let me be specific.

I first set my foot in Botswana in 1986, during which time I was a very young man but adventurous, stayed until the year 2009 when I decided to come back to Kenya.

For all those years that I stayed in Botswana, the presidents Masire, Mogae and even Ian Khama rarely talked about security within and at the borders.

You see in the late 80s and early 90s, the political situation in Southern Africa was chaotic, South Africa was not good due to the apertheid regime and freedom struggle, in Namibia as people were fighting for independence and in Angola as the civil war ranged. In all the cases freedom fighters and other people were crossing over to Botswana as it was seen to be the safest. In early to mid 90s things in Zimbabwe started moving from worse to worst and the result more immigrants to Botswana.

All in all more than a half a million emigrants crossed over to Botswana through the gazetted border points and others unaccounted for through panya routes, but how did Botswana manage to maintain the safety of its citizen despite that huge number of foreigners/immigrants influx and being a country surrounded by politically unstable states at the time:

1.Socially
(a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody. If a local noticed a neighbour who was hardly seen he/she reported it to the nearest police station and Immigration and the two bodies immediately swung into action.

(b) It was in law that each and every plot Land Registration (LR) No be conspicuously displayed at the point of entry (gates or doors). When you filled any forms be it employment, utilities or any other application forms the most important social data was your name and physical address (residential LR No, the Road and estate). The landlords were required by the law to keep a database on their foreigner tenants and were required to share it with the immigration. This way the government knew who was staying where and when they needed you they came for you at any time.

(c) If foreigners sought asylum as refugees then they remained in the refugee camp, no mingling with other people. If you were caught, and it was established that you have refugee status, repatriation right away.

(d) The Batswana fear and respect the law. It spares no one, not the rich, not the poor, not the mighty. It was applied equally to all irrespective of their social status.

(e) Botswana was and is still the least corrupt country in Africa. When it came to getting services which you needed by right, nobody claimed to be doing you any favour and everybody kept off from corruption. Under such circumstances, they ran a very efficient impartial public service and police force.

2. Commercially...
(a) A local could and would not sell any land or property to a foreigner. No law prohibited them from doing it, but this intention was to keep foreigners from owning anything in that country and consequently keeping them at bay.

(b) Any company that intended to buy any property had to have a majority stake owned by citizens. NB majority shareholder meant more than 70%.

(c) The labour laws were and are still very strict. No company irrespective of the owners (whether foreign or locally owned) was allowed to employ foreigners in posts whose job skills and expertise was locally available.

If we draw political paralells between Kenya and Botswana we have almost everything in common. I know most of us will still argue that our social structures are completely different but when it comes to matters security this goes beyond social structures. Security is a collective effort and responsibility between the citizenry and the government.

Let us sit back as Kenyans and do a little reflection. Socially and commercially, where have we succeeded in assisting the government of the day to give us the security that we need.

Let us discuss this objectively and soberly.


Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

Wear a steel helmet.

To many you are a sycophant, ''a Mundu wa Nyumba'' , a mountaineer!
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
alma
#3 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:30:28 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Very nice...."discussion". What are you discussing? We know the problem it starts from your point 1


Quote:
1.Socially
(a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody. If a local noticed a neighbour who was hardly seen he/she reported it to the nearest police station and Immigration and the two bodies immediately swung into action.


What we are trying to tell this selfie and hashtag gov't is that your points other points will never work until point 1(a) is implemented.

That is Uhurus work.

Even yesterday Bellow Kerrow was adamant that as long as the police and security don't seem to respond, no amount of speeches and social re-engineering will work.

So lets start the "discussion" with point 1 (a)

How do I implement that one given that I'm a simple citizen?
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Nandwa
#4 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:37:33 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049
@ alma Applause Applause Applause

Quote:
IF WE FIX OUR SECURITY ALL OTHER THINGS WILL FALL IN PLACE

Like every other Kenyan I have a passion for a secure and peaceful nation. Like the President I believe that security is a multifaceted sector and requires many approaches and collaboration of many actors including the citizenry.

To be fair Kenyan populace have played their part.
They have paid their taxes. As a matter of fact as a result of the rot in the security sector many Kenyans are no longer enthusiastic to share information.

We have heard many cases of Kenyans reporting criminals only for the officers who should have protected them to betray the informers to the same criminals. We have heard many cases of officers taking bribes in border towns just to let in illegal immigrants carrying all sorts of weapons.

I have listened to many junior officers also complaining that they share information to their seniors only to be punished because the seniors are the collaborators.
We have heard many theories of supremacy battles within the forces and poor coordination stemming from terrible interpersonal relations.

There is a lot to be done in the security sector and it all comes down to LEADERSHIP.

https://www.facebook.com...esimus.murkomen?fref=nf
Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
KulaRaha
#5 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:42:17 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Seems the hashtag army has landed at Wazua... :)
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Ngong
#6 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:52:17 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2012
Posts: 1,461
Location: Ngong Forest
Nandwa wrote:
@ alma Applause Applause Applause

Quote:
IF WE FIX OUR SECURITY ALL OTHER THINGS WILL FALL IN PLACE

Like every other Kenyan I have a passion for a secure and peaceful nation. Like the President I believe that security is a multifaceted sector and requires many approaches and collaboration of many actors including the citizenry.

To be fair Kenyan populace have played their part.
They have paid their taxes. As a matter of fact as a result of the rot in the security sector many Kenyans are no longer enthusiastic to share information.

We have heard many cases of Kenyans reporting criminals only for the officers who should have protected them to betray the informers to the same criminals. We have heard many cases of officers taking bribes in border towns just to let in illegal immigrants carrying all sorts of weapons.

I have listened to many junior officers also complaining that they share information to their seniors only to be punished because the seniors are the collaborators.
We have heard many theories of supremacy battles within the forces and poor coordination stemming from terrible interpersonal relations.

There is a lot to be done in the security sector and it all comes down to LEADERSHIP.

https://www.facebook.com...esimus.murkomen?fref=nf


Just until recently illegal Ethiopians immigrants have been arrested in Nairobi,the last case been an accident on Thika road involving a bunch of them.
Now tell me,Nobody saw them all the way from Ethiopia?
A bunch of them about 30 arrested in Kiambu,my God supposing they are terrorists and descend to the Capital one monday morning? Four were a big mess,30 will be hellSad Sad
freiks
#7 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:53:08 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,734
alma wrote:
Very nice...."discussion". What are you discussing? We know the problem it starts from your point 1


Quote:
1.Socially
(a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody. If a local noticed a neighbour who was hardly seen he/she reported it to the nearest police station and Immigration and the two bodies immediately swung into action.


What we are trying to tell this selfie and hashtag gov't is that your points other points will never work until point 1(a) is implemented.

That is Uhurus work.

Even yesterday Bellow Kerrow was adamant that as long as the police and security don't seem to respond, no amount of speeches and social re-engineering will work.

So lets start the "discussion" with point 1 (a)

How do I implement that one given that I'm a simple citizen?

Time to reflect with or without helmet, police dont respond without getting kitu kidogo from you, has this started 1 year ago?. We always complain that the police sent kurutus to kapendo, first how were they recruited(HIGHEST BINDER)
How am I as a citizen do to prevent this......A BIG NOTHING, just watch and give the tithe to police and implementing officers.
Then as president stated it has to start with me and stop the trend, the much we do as citizens let us implement it in all spheres of live.
We started the #alcoholblow watch, let us start a #citizenwatch and see our security improve. Nyumba kumi for those who have been in rwanda knows its one way we can work to improve our security
Life is an endless adventure
Takeshi
#8 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:58:39 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 3/10/2014
Posts: 78
Nandwa wrote:
@ alma Applause Applause Applause

Quote:
IF WE FIX OUR SECURITY ALL OTHER THINGS WILL FALL IN PLACE

Like every other Kenyan I have a passion for a secure and peaceful nation. Like the President I believe that security is a multifaceted sector and requires many approaches and collaboration of many actors including the citizenry.

To be fair Kenyan populace have played their part.
They have paid their taxes. As a matter of fact as a result of the rot in the security sector many Kenyans are no longer enthusiastic to share information.

we have heard many cases of Kenyans reporting criminals only for the officers who should have protected them to betray the informers to the same criminals. We have heard many cases of officers taking bribes in border towns just to let in illegal immigrants carrying all sorts of weapons.

I have listened to many junior officers also complaining that they share information to their seniors only to be punished because the seniors are the collaborators.
We have heard many theories of supremacy battles within the forces and poor coordination stemming from terrible interpersonal relations.
[/color]


There is a lot to be done in the security sector and it all comes down to LEADERSHIP.

https://www.facebook.com...esimus.murkomen?fref=nf


baratang...good insights, but unlike botswana , above is one of our many problems here in kenya
......too much love for money, corruption is killing us!.!!....it has gotten to the extent that corruption is part of our culture, left right and centre.
Angelica _ann
#9 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:59:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,941
All the components of Botwana situation are good but the governament MUST put an enable environment in place. Most of the aspects aslo involve the gava security agencies being upto standards!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
butterflyke
#10 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 12:59:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 3,024
Location: Hapa
KulaRaha wrote:
Seems the hashtag army has landed at Wazua... :)


C & P:

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
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