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Shabaab suspects ambush bus near Mandera, kill 28
Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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washiku wrote:Kratos wrote:washiku wrote:Kratos wrote:washiku wrote:Kratos wrote:Washiku, wachana na akina Moha, call a few of those numbers to confirm for us. OCPD IJARA 046-62006- Response: The number has been changed. True caller shows Mwangangi Deputy
MERU CENTRAL
OCPD OFFICE 064- 30718: Number not going through.
EASTERN PROVINCE
KITUI DIVISIONAL HQS 222064: Number you have dialed is not in service.
KIAMBU DIVISION
HOTLINE 06622111: Sorry the number you have dialed is not in service.Nimechoka kujaribu Kratos. Which one is working? Remember these are emergency numbers, numbers that should be at people's finger tips. Have you tried any yourself? My point here was about you finding out for yourself and not waiting to be told by Moha which numbers are working or not. Now i want you to go further with that information you have that those numbers are not working, as a tax paying citizen email Kenya police CC nationmedia, statehouse, substandard, the people, statehouse.gov etc and let them know their numbers are not working. That is how responsible citizenship starts and we should all follow suit. By the way I wanted to do that...I wanted to check the the police address. I found the website is down. All in all, I would appreciate if you realize; my friend, that this is not really my job, otherwise the operation guy at police hq should be replaced with me. Exactly what i wanted to bring out. Security is not your job. Sadly that's how many Kenyans think. Security starts with each one of us! But surely there is a reason why we all dont work at Vigilance house...That is why someone sits in that office and draws a salary. Further, I did my part. I was ready to use my internet and my time to inform them that their numbers are not working. But I am totally in darkness on how to do that. The only tweet I ever did about it was never replied to. My job as a citizen is to inform them so that they act. I hope you dont expect me to set up the communication lines for them, do you? Why do we demand so little of our public servants? Am sorry Washiku but you can't wriggle out of this one. If you are prepared to set high standards for our security apparatus you should also be prepared that they would expect more from you. Again, we are not talking about a vehicle driven badly on the road that you're reporting to NTSA or whoever, we are talking about how to combat TERRORISM. Again its not about us VS them, its ALL OF US! It's about our attitude and willingness to engage TOGETHER!
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/9/2009 Posts: 2,003
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Damn! What do people do when they report for work every morning in suits and ties? Scratch their balls and swing in their seats? I will never understand this. I was taught to be effective. Or is it because I have never worked for GoK?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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McReggae wrote:@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!! Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you followed my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending anyone but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won.
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!! Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won.  I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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McReggae wrote:Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!! Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won. I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!! The citizen does not have to feel the need to participate, he should automatically do so because one day it could be his family his friends or himself that he could be saving. Maybe you need to go to the beginning of this thread and see this kiash wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is a sad case.
1. I condemn the police for raiding places of worship blindly, killing one youth
2. I condemn the retaliation attack the next night by youth killing innocent people
3. I condemn this morning's attack of travelers in Mandera.
We should all change our attitude towards, terrorism and crime. We need to make each one of us a partner in this. The moment we treat a criminal as a criminal and not a religious criminal, then we can be able to move forward. The moment we stop profiling people based on their religion, is when we will buy in real security improvements. why do you condemn ? Kwani mosques are lodgings nowadays i read the raids were done at 3:am what were worshippers doing in the mosque at the time. ama there are keshas siku hizi And the crude weapons were supposed to be for decoration or what? @ Alph you are just like Hassan Omar condemning the raids. These are just terrorist dens but u wonder for how long non muslims will pay .First Wgate then lamu and now this , you kill 28 to revenge 1 person the life of that one person must have been really dear. Alphadoti does not want raids done in the mosques which harbour terrorists and for that i have no apologies to make in calling him a sympathizer.
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!! Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won. I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!! The citizen does not have to feel the need to participate, he should automatically do so because one day it could be his family his friends or himself that he could be saving. Maybe you need to go to the beginning of this thread and see this kiash wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is a sad case.
1. I condemn the police for raiding places of worship blindly, killing one youth
2. I condemn the retaliation attack the next night by youth killing innocent people
3. I condemn this morning's attack of travelers in Mandera.
We should all change our attitude towards, terrorism and crime. We need to make each one of us a partner in this. The moment we treat a criminal as a criminal and not a religious criminal, then we can be able to move forward. The moment we stop profiling people based on their religion, is when we will buy in real security improvements. why do you condemn ? Kwani mosques are lodgings nowadays i read the raids were done at 3:am what were worshippers doing in the mosque at the time. ama there are keshas siku hizi And the crude weapons were supposed to be for decoration or what? @ Alph you are just like Hassan Omar condemning the raids. These are just terrorist dens but u wonder for how long non muslims will pay .First Wgate then lamu and now this , you kill 28 to revenge 1 person the life of that one person must have been really dear. Alphadoti does not want raids done in the mosques which harbour terrorists and for that i have no apologies to make in calling him a sympathizer. Nothing different with you when throughout the thread you only see the problem with the victims when somebody is paid to do his work!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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If the presence of the shabaabs was know two weeks ago and not acted on, can we now look at who the beneficiaries are? Who has been the single beneficiary in all these internal attacks of the citizenry???? ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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quicksand wrote:tycho wrote:When the war against the al Shabaab was starting most of us here cheered and supported it, now our people have died and more will die, and seeing this we're all over crying. Don't we know the consequence of war is death? We took responsibility for all these deaths a long time ago.
Now some of us think that the war needs to be fought differently, even despite international conventions. Speak of aggravating issues. We are slowly besieging ourselves and one effect of a siege is cannibalism. Now we want to turn against each other in the name of ferreting collaborators. And sacking the 'incompetent'. The US defense secretary has been sacked over IS, what next? Same story.
We're just a bunch of noise makers killing time.
And your solution is? Mostly, all you do is pose questions. An answer, even a wrong one, is useful from time to time. You are a keyboard theorist, just like the rest of us -unless you have done something tangible in the real world, among people -which in your own conviction will help alleviate the problem. Have you done such? Enlighten us. But probably you will want to ask me to define : a) what is 'tangible' b) what is the 'real world' c) some other abstract/notional thing not in a and b that I might have missed @quicksand if I have a problem I work for its solution. The problem am solving now is that of trying to help without being asked to do so. Like now. This al Shabaab story isn't my problem in any way. If it's yours and you want my help, then know that resolving other people's illusions isn't my forte. Don't worry about the definitions of 'real' and the like.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Non muslims lining up to be airlifted from Mandera!!!!  ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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McReggae wrote:Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!! Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won. I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!! The citizen does not have to feel the need to participate, he should automatically do so because one day it could be his family his friends or himself that he could be saving. Maybe you need to go to the beginning of this thread and see this kiash wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is a sad case.
1. I condemn the police for raiding places of worship blindly, killing one youth
2. I condemn the retaliation attack the next night by youth killing innocent people
3. I condemn this morning's attack of travelers in Mandera.
We should all change our attitude towards, terrorism and crime. We need to make each one of us a partner in this. The moment we treat a criminal as a criminal and not a religious criminal, then we can be able to move forward. The moment we stop profiling people based on their religion, is when we will buy in real security improvements. why do you condemn ? Kwani mosques are lodgings nowadays i read the raids were done at 3:am what were worshippers doing in the mosque at the time. ama there are keshas siku hizi And the crude weapons were supposed to be for decoration or what? @ Alph you are just like Hassan Omar condemning the raids. These are just terrorist dens but u wonder for how long non muslims will pay .First Wgate then lamu and now this , you kill 28 to revenge 1 person the life of that one person must have been really dear. Alphadoti does not want raids done in the mosques which harbour terrorists and for that i have no apologies to make in calling him a sympathizer. Nothing different with you when throughout the thread you only see the problem with the victims when somebody is paid to do his work!!!! Continue twisting facts, if calling upon Kenyans to be more proactive in the fight against terror is being a government apologist let it be so. One thing for sure and i stand by it is, that this war will not be won by changing personnel but by adopting a unified approach.
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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McReggae wrote:Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!! Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won. I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!! The citizen does not have to feel the need to participate, he should automatically do so because one day it could be his family his friends or himself that he could be saving. Maybe you need to go to the beginning of this thread and see this kiash wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is a sad case.
1. I condemn the police for raiding places of worship blindly, killing one youth
2. I condemn the retaliation attack the next night by youth killing innocent people
3. I condemn this morning's attack of travelers in Mandera.
We should all change our attitude towards, terrorism and crime. We need to make each one of us a partner in this. The moment we treat a criminal as a criminal and not a religious criminal, then we can be able to move forward. The moment we stop profiling people based on their religion, is when we will buy in real security improvements. why do you condemn ? Kwani mosques are lodgings nowadays i read the raids were done at 3:am what were worshippers doing in the mosque at the time. ama there are keshas siku hizi And the crude weapons were supposed to be for decoration or what? @ Alph you are just like Hassan Omar condemning the raids. These are just terrorist dens but u wonder for how long non muslims will pay .First Wgate then lamu and now this , you kill 28 to revenge 1 person the life of that one person must have been really dear. Alphadoti does not want raids done in the mosques which harbour terrorists and for that i have no apologies to make in calling him a sympathizer. Nothing different with you when throughout the thread you only see the problem with the victims when somebody is paid to do his work!!!! @mc you've done well so far. You see the 'sharp mind' @kratos chose not read whole point (1), that's why he missed out the word "blindly". I expect the govt to do more precise arrest than these random ones. If M01 could do smarter intelligence, what is wrong with this garment with the technology advancement!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:Kratos wrote:McReggae wrote:@Washiku achana na @Kratos, he an apologist to the garment's failures just like the terrorist sympathizers we talk about every other day!!!!!! Sadly if you have a difference of opinion on how things can and should work you get labeled, Isorait. Unfortunately when all these people have been fired, replaced, others elected, we will still have terrorists and i will not come here to celebrate and say i told you so, but i will come here to grieve with you in unison. If you follow my posts on this thread and were sharp enough you will realise am not defending the government or police but only asking for the citizens to wake up and participate and that is how i think this war will be won. I see I'm now not sharp enough! In your your sharpness boss, what we are saying is that the citizen will feel the need to participate when the authority fed on the taxpayers money do or are seen to be doing nothing, otherwise I wonder why you wanna label @Alphadoti a sympathizer yet feel bad when you are labeled a garment apologist, according to you everything is wrong with the citizens who are getting killed like chicken, jeez, what a warped reasoning for a sharp guys as you call yourself!!!! The citizen does not have to feel the need to participate, he should automatically do so because one day it could be his family his friends or himself that he could be saving. Maybe you need to go to the beginning of this thread and see this kiash wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is a sad case.
1. I condemn the police for raiding places of worship blindly, killing one youth
2. I condemn the retaliation attack the next night by youth killing innocent people
3. I condemn this morning's attack of travelers in Mandera.
We should all change our attitude towards, terrorism and crime. We need to make each one of us a partner in this. The moment we treat a criminal as a criminal and not a religious criminal, then we can be able to move forward. The moment we stop profiling people based on their religion, is when we will buy in real security improvements. why do you condemn ? Kwani mosques are lodgings nowadays i read the raids were done at 3:am what were worshippers doing in the mosque at the time. ama there are keshas siku hizi And the crude weapons were supposed to be for decoration or what? @ Alph you are just like Hassan Omar condemning the raids. These are just terrorist dens but u wonder for how long non muslims will pay .First Wgate then lamu and now this , you kill 28 to revenge 1 person the life of that one person must have been really dear. Alphadoti does not want raids done in the mosques which harbour terrorists and for that i have no apologies to make in calling him a sympathizer. Nothing different with you when throughout the thread you only see the problem with the victims when somebody is paid to do his work!!!! Continue twisting facts, if calling upon Kenyans to be more proactive in the fight against terror is being a government apologist let it be so. One thing for sure and i stand by it is, that this war will not be won by changing personnel but by adopting a unified approach. That's the keyword I've been trying to highlight to you ' unified approach'. Govt needs to make everyone a partner in this. That means you cannot afford to do blanket raids, because that will only lead to negative reaction from the innocent.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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195 posts and going, how many ideas on solutions?
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Kratos wrote:195 posts and going, how many ideas on solutions? We have given some...many... By the way, this is what happens in other countries. Do you remember the other lady who resigned coz a mkora was found in White house?
Rapid advances by Islamic State jihadists in Syria and Iraq forced the Pentagon chief into managing a complex campaign, and Obama concluded Hagel was not the man for the task.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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Am reading only one from you.....1. The government should fire incompetent officials. 2....... 3...... 4....
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Kratos wrote:Am reading only one from you.....1. The government should fire incompetent officials. 2....... 3...... 4.... At least I have given one which you can see. I wish it was implemented today, Alshabaab would stop laughing at us. But man, I gave more. I am the one waiting for yours. Not a vague statement like "Security is about all of us" but specifics. I point form. I attempted mine(see below). Try and attempt yours, please please I beg you. Be a bit specific. washiku wrote:Kratos wrote:@ Washiku, while i don't dispute all what you're saying my point is that all those points DO NOT eradicate terrorism. You have just expressed your expectations and not given solutions. Again i ask, how will changing the security team, holding demos etc help in eradicating terrorism? IT WILL NOT! So long as the they live among us and we will not sacrifice them for the good of all.
Your points are about "I have done my bit as Washiku" what am saying is that there are many other Washiku's who are shielding this idiots.
Terrorism is not a conventional crime/war and you will never be free from it even though you have paid taxes and what not. How are other countries fighting this animal? By firing people and holding demos about insecurity? Not at all. By exposing their own brothers and sisters who are part of the problem. In fact i believe that al shabab would not have gained much traction in Kenya had there not been collaborators and sympathizers. Not to say that our systems have helped though. Kratos I like you already, coz you are already asking questions. At least we can discuss. 1. Firing people? YES. It works. The next person knows that they have to work to keep their job. 2. How do you convince people to share info? By being wise. Get a thief to catch a thief. Entrench his people so so deep into the system that he will know what is happening in every corner of this country. 3. Let our system be more preventive than reactive. How? Ruto told us that a few minutes after the attack, the kebabs were followed to their hide-outs and killed. Then only explanation could be that the KDF guys knew those camps exist. How could they have all of a sudden realised them in a few minutes? Instead of using helicopters to ferry politicians to rallies, those things should be used all the time to do air surveillance of our borders. Such camps should have been bombed the day they were being made. By the way it is not so hard, if given to the right people. 99% are law abiding Kenyans. 1% can not be too hard to handle. Its because of that 1% that the police, judiciary, NIS and such others exist. Let them do their job. My friend who we were in campus together, who chose to serve us through the security apparatus works in those volatile areas. He tells me of tales of the little resources they have to work. Yet every time during Mashujaa celebration the army does drills to show us the machinery we have in store to protect us. Must we wait until Uganda attacks us to use them?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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washiku wrote:Kratos wrote:Am reading only one from you.....1. The government should fire incompetent officials. 2....... 3...... 4.... At least I have given one which you can see. I wish it was implemented today, Alshabaab would stop laughing at us. But man, I gave more. I am the one waiting for yours. Not a vague statement like "Security is about all of us" but specifics. I point form. I attempted mine(see below). Try and attempt yours, please please I beg you. Be a bit specific. Ok then Washiku, it seems my earlier points have been drowned by all the condemnation i have received by asking what we as citizens are doing. I suggested that the government carry out similar tactics as used on mungiki and sdlf to fight the collaborators who are among us and hiding under the guise of religion. I suggested that the citizenry be more proactive in giving information to the police (which here is a bone of contention since according to you, you can only do so much whereas i think we can do more) The religious leaders, politicians and NGO's to allow the government to weed out the militant among us without crying about human rights and we if we are to win this war we all have to be on the same side. My point here is we are focusing on pointing fingers than coming up with tangible and feasible solutions. They may not all be right but at least its the correct discussion.
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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