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Disgusting new policies in individual pension schemes
kimiri
#1 Posted : Friday, November 09, 2012 10:51:35 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/12/2008
Posts: 215
Some of the new laws/policies that are coming up are just going to kill rather than promote a saving culture among workers in Kenya. I have just been informed that it is no longer possible to make a partial withdrawal from my individual pension scheme with CFC until I retire or I am out of employment. Last year these fellas paid me an interest rate of about 4% for my savings.

In the past what I have done is save money with the pension scheme for something like 2 years, and then make a partial withdrawal and put the money in higher yielding investments e.g. plots. But with the new policy this is no longer possible.

Even if pension contributions are exempt from PAYE tax, I don’t think it is worthwhile for me to wait for 20 years to get back my savings. Why do these fellas think that I can lend them my money at 4% interest rate per year for 20 years and then go and borrow the same money at 20% from banks? I have just instructed my employer to immediately terminate my contributions.
What do Wazuan’s think about this?
Robinhood
#2 Posted : Friday, November 09, 2012 11:16:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
@Kimiri, toka CFC enda Jubilee. They have paid 10% on average on their pension schemes for the last 10 years.
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
githundi
#3 Posted : Friday, November 09, 2012 11:30:53 AM
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Joined: 11/19/2010
Posts: 1,308
Location: nairobi metropolitan
Robinhood wrote:
@Kimiri, toka CFC enda Jubilee. They have paid 10% on average on their pension schemes for the last 10 years.

@ kimiri, most of pension schemes did poorly last year because of the nature of their investiments. Even my beloved aon~jubilee did about the same only it was compesated by previous performance of > 20 %. I would advise you to transfer your pension to jubilee as they do better.
Democracy does not belong to the dead
2012
#4 Posted : Friday, November 09, 2012 11:37:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Are you sure you got the facts right? You should only access 75% (100% of your contribution, 50% of employer) of you pension when you resign before attaining retirement age and the taxes waived will be unwaived. You only access 100% taxes waived after hitting legal retirement age.

But you are right about the interest. Last year we also got 6% which is a rip-off considering most people have increased their contribution for this purpose. I'm going to reduce mine next year as I can easily get 10% elsewhere.

BBI will solve it
:)
maka
#5 Posted : Monday, November 12, 2012 5:42:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
Are you sure you got the facts right? You should only access 75% (100% of your contribution, 50% of employer) of you pension when you resign before attaining retirement age and the taxes waived will be unwaived. You only access 100% taxes waived after hitting legal retirement age.

But you are right about the interest. Last year we also got 6% which is a rip-off considering most people have increased their contribution for this purpose. I'm going to reduce mine next year as I can easily get 10% elsewhere.

...where do u think they,l get their profits if they dont give you low returns even the daftest fund manager can easily do 8% plus in an economy like ours...
possunt quia posse videntur
Cde Monomotapa
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:20:18 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
As long as your & the fund managers interests aren't aligned, then KATAA HIYO!
madhaquer
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:16:18 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 281
Location: Nairobi
The pension business is more about protecting the initial investment and sitting pretty on workers' money.
Most of them do not actively trade in the NSE. They buy companies that pay dividends and live off that. The rest is in bonds and some real estate developments.
If you want high yields in the short run, then pension schemes are NOT the way to go.
Trade in the NSE or speculate on plots or other businesses. Pension is a whole different philosophy.
Kwanini
#8 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2014 1:07:02 PM
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Joined: 1/28/2009
Posts: 353
Location: Cloud
Does anyone have any comparison how the top 5 individual pension schemes performed? i asked the same from RBA and all i could get was a list of 30 approved schemes!
"For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
mic_mic
#9 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2014 1:20:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/30/2012
Posts: 545
Location: NBI
madhaquer wrote:
The pension business is more about protecting the initial investment and sitting pretty on workers' money.
Most of them do not actively trade in the NSE. They buy companies that pay dividends and live off that. The rest is in bonds and some real estate developments.
If you want high yields in the short run, then pension schemes are NOT the way to go.
Trade in the NSE or speculate on plots or other businesses. Pension is a whole different philosophy.


You are absolutely right. 4% is peanuts and negative interest in real terms. GoV is misusing its authority to 'fool' everyday Kenyans into pension schemes -- some of them dubious. I tried reading through the NSSF fliers that were on the round some time back. To me, it looked like a pure scheme to fleece the uninformed.

Only put the minimum recommended by GoV. 10% isn't that great as well. in the current environment, 20% + is very possible.
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bird_man
#10 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2014 3:29:05 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
Plots,business & NSE is about making profits. It is high risk thus higher rewards.Pension is about assuring you of some income once you retire.It is NOT an investment.

One is almost 100% guaranteed...the others are not a guarantee.
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
mic_mic
#11 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2014 4:53:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/30/2012
Posts: 545
Location: NBI
bird_man wrote:
Plots,business & NSE is about making profits. It is high risk thus higher rewards.Pension is about assuring you of some income once you retire.It is NOT an investment.

One is almost 100% guaranteed...the others are not a guarantee.


Ok, you raise a good point. But given the nature of monetary policy in East Africa, a pension should at least aim to beat inflation. That sets a floor for future cashflow discount rates. What was the last official inflation figure?
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Gordon Gekko
#12 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2014 7:47:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
mic_mic wrote:
bird_man wrote:
Plots,business & NSE is about making profits. It is high risk thus higher rewards.Pension is about assuring you of some income once you retire.It is NOT an investment.

One is almost 100% guaranteed...the others are not a guarantee.


Ok, you raise a good point. But given the nature of monetary policy in East Africa, a pension should at least aim to beat inflation. That sets a floor for future cashflow discount rates. What was the last official inflation figure?

There are two types of pensions. Government controlled (NSSF, CPF) and private ones. Govt will give 2.5-6% while Amana for instance did 22% last year. Top dogs in Kenya do some ridiculous numbers.
bird_man
#13 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:19:51 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
Gordon Gekko wrote:
mic_mic wrote:
bird_man wrote:
Plots,business & NSE is about making profits. It is high risk thus higher rewards.Pension is about assuring you of some income once you retire.It is NOT an investment.

One is almost 100% guaranteed...the others are not a guarantee.


Ok, you raise a good point. But given the nature of monetary policy in East Africa, a pension should at least aim to beat inflation. That sets a floor for future cashflow discount rates. What was the last official inflation figure?

There are two types of pensions. Government controlled (NSSF, CPF) and private ones. Govt will give 2.5-6% while Amana for instance did 22% last year. Top dogs in Kenya do some ridiculous numbers.


My thinking....do your pension but be very aggressive when it comes to plots,business & NSE. At least that way you balance the two.
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
ayushnehra
#14 Posted : Friday, December 08, 2017 9:48:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/4/2015
Posts: 153
Hey guys,

Are there any recent figures on the performance of the pension schemes? Where is this data normally acquired from?
Dreams are not the thing you see in your sleep..it's the thing that doesn't let you sleep. - A.P.J. Abdul Kalam
Gathige
#15 Posted : Friday, December 08, 2017 11:05:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
ayushnehra wrote:
Hey guys,

Are there any recent figures on the performance of the pension schemes? Where is this data normally acquired from?



Normally. its the individuals schemes that declare their returns to the members and issue a statement. Nit sure if the info is available elsewhere.

For Jubilee, the performance has been 12%, 8.3% and 9% for 2014, 2015 and 2016 respectively. The performance has been on a downward spiral and may be indicative of other schemes too.

"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
FRM2011
#16 Posted : Friday, December 15, 2017 11:16:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
ayushnehra wrote:
Hey guys,

Are there any recent figures on the performance of the pension schemes? Where is this data normally acquired from?


Alexander Forbes are the actuaries and administrators of most corporate pension schemes. So as guys resign, they started convincing people to transfer their balance to their own scheme. It's called vuna.

My advice, don't even try. Unless you don't mind a pension statement with a negative return.
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