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Shabaab suspects ambush bus near Mandera, kill 28
kiash
#121 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:44:47 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 951
Location: Nyumbani
washiku wrote:



How come there are no countries like Qatar, Kuwait,UAE on the list ? Seems like has always been the case, the poor and uneducated muslims always serve the purpose. The suicide bombers will always be the same and the big mouths doing the teachings will always be the same. At the end of the day, "Some let others die for them"
Kratos
#122 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:56:09 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
alma wrote:
Kratos I hope that you realise that your statement about collaborators and Muriel's statements about knowldgeable Guru are the problem.

It's very confused to be honest.

You see, over the weekend, at dawn, 28 Kenyans were killed. We are now on Tuesday, no one has been arrested.

That is what we mean by giving the public a sense of security. Someone, should have been arrested.

Not more PR stunts and News clips about turning stones to be unturned or something in that direction.

That's what we mean by security. Give us anything at all to prove to Kenyans that they are safe in a bus going to Mandera. Something, anything.

Not a selfie and not another tweet.

I dare you to tell your sister to go get the jobs that are now available in Mandera. If you are really honest tell me what the gov't has done for you lately to prove that it is safe for a Kenyan to work in Mandera. Do so without mentioning Nyumba Kumi and without the need of fake photos from 2012, a selfie or a red line being crossed.

I'm waiting.

In the meantime I remain yours trully, tired of stories just action.


Sometimes i like to view stuff from different perspectives, when you rightly put it that no one has been arrested i also look at it from the police point of view. How are they going to arrest "them". They need information from the public without which they would be chasing their own tails.
You are quick to dismiss nyumba kumi, why on earth would you do that. If it achieves its purpose of collecting information about those around you i think it may just work. We may not like it because of the implications on loss of privacy but which one is priority security or privacy in the light of terrorism.
By definition terrorism is UNLIKE all other crimes such that NO ONE can give you assurances that it will not happen. Even in the developed world no one gives you that assurance.
We need to find the balance as Kenyans between being problem identifiers and being problem solvers. Identifying problems just for the sake of identifying them is of no good use.

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
alma
#123 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 9:06:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Kratos I'm always on your case because sometimes you talk like a government hack.

Ati police arrest who?

Exactly what are you saying so that I can understand. Say it slowly please. The only people I know who are arrested quickly in this country are those who tweet,facebook or wazua, those inside a mosque at wrong periods and if you happen not to have 100 bob when walking at night. Let's not argue about the facts above.

People killed in Baragoi, nothing. People killed in Lamu, nothing. People killed in Turkana, nothing. People killed at the Mall, nothing. People Killed in Mandera, nothing.

This idea of blaming victims has been used very well by Robert Alai blaming women for wearing minis. It doesn't wash.

I don't pay my taxes to pay Alphdotis salary. I pay Ole Lenku, Kimaiyo and President Uhuru Kenyatta.

If what they are being paid is not enough, then they should step aside and let someone who can take care of security do so.

That is what we are saying.

No more statements.

They either bring to book those that kill Kenyans, or they may as well go home because obviously they are not helping anyone and more Kenyans are at risk of being killed.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
tycho
#124 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 9:11:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
When the war against the al Shabaab was starting most of us here cheered and supported it, now our people have died and more will die, and seeing this we're all over crying. Don't we know the consequence of war is death? We took responsibility for all these deaths a long time ago.

Now some of us think that the war needs to be fought differently, even despite international conventions. Speak of aggravating issues. We are slowly besieging ourselves and one effect of a siege is cannibalism. Now we want to turn against each other in the name of ferreting collaborators. And sacking the 'incompetent'. The US defense secretary has been sacked over IS, what next? Same story.

We're just a bunch of noise makers killing time.
Kratos
#125 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 9:18:16 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
alma wrote:
Kratos I'm always on your case because sometimes you talk like a government hack.

Ati police arrest who?

Exactly what are you saying so that I can understand. Say it slowly please. The only people I know who are arrested quickly in this country are those who tweet,facebook or wazua, those inside a mosque at wrong periods and if you happen not to have 100 bob when walking at night. Let's not argue about the facts above.

People killed in Baragoi, nothing. People killed in Lamu, nothing. People killed in Turkana, nothing. People killed at the Mall, nothing. People Killed in Mandera, nothing.

This idea of blaming victims has been used very well by Robert Alai blaming women for wearing minis. It doesn't wash.

I don't pay my taxes to pay Alphdotis salary. I pay Ole Lenku, Kimaiyo and President Uhuru Kenyatta.

If what they are being paid is not enough, then they should step aside and let someone who can take care of security do so.

That is what we are saying.

No more statements.

They either bring to book those that kill Kenyans, or they may as well go home because obviously they are not helping anyone and more Kenyans are at risk of being killed.


Take time to go through my posts in this thread and if you want you may actually get what am saying. Where have i blamed victims? All am saying is that we act as if the government and the people are from a different society which is actually not the case. What you're actually reinforcing is the tunaomba serikali mentality while my view is that WE as citizens can also help.
Alphadoti and his bunch of collaborators must be overjoyed with the protection you're giving them by absolving them of any wrong doing.

Whatever assurances you want will not come from any government in the world regardless of which individuals are in those positions: That is why its called TERRORISM.
Anyway seeing that my points are not valid with you whichever way I argue them I rest my case. Lets continue thinking the world is flat.

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
Angelica _ann
#126 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 9:19:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,929
When 'my' people were killed in Nyakach border clashes and nobody cared i said to heck let us kill each other in Kenya!

@Tycho says in an understandable language up there, this is just cry baby. It will die off until the next episode!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
alma
#127 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 9:23:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
tycho wrote:
When the war against the al Shabaab was starting most of us here cheered and supported it, now our people have died and more will die, and seeing this we're all over crying. Don't we know the consequence of war is death? We took responsibility for all these deaths a long time ago.

Now some of us think that the war needs to be fought differently, even despite international conventions. Speak of aggravating issues. We are slowly besieging ourselves and one effect of a siege is cannibalism. Now we want to turn against each other in the name of ferreting collaborators. And sacking the 'incompetent'. The US defense secretary has been sacked over IS, what next? Same story.

We're just a bunch of noise makers killing time.


You of all people should know when to use the words "we","me","I"

You can't expect people to keep quiet. In this conversation I respect Kratos. At least he has a solid point of view which to be honest makes some sense. I disagree with it because I think 2yrs is too long a time to give anyone time to settle.

You on the other hand are still looking for the kumbaya crowd. See no evil speak no evil.

Engage.

Meet here today. I've not slept lakini leo utanipata huko.



Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
tycho
#128 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 9:41:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
tycho wrote:
When the war against the al Shabaab was starting most of us here cheered and supported it, now our people have died and more will die, and seeing this we're all over crying. Don't we know the consequence of war is death? We took responsibility for all these deaths a long time ago.

Now some of us think that the war needs to be fought differently, even despite international conventions. Speak of aggravating issues. We are slowly besieging ourselves and one effect of a siege is cannibalism. Now we want to turn against each other in the name of ferreting collaborators. And sacking the 'incompetent'. The US defense secretary has been sacked over IS, what next? Same story.

We're just a bunch of noise makers killing time.


You of all people should know when to use the words "we","me","I"

You can't expect people to keep quiet. In this conversation I respect Kratos. At least he has a solid point of view which to be honest makes some sense. I disagree with it because I think 2yrs is too long a time to give anyone time to settle.

You on the other hand are still looking for the kumbaya crowd. See no evil speak no evil.

Engage.

Meet here today. I've not slept lakini leo utanipata huko.





Alma, the question of evil has already been answered. By you. I'm not for a chorus as you and your 'occupy' friends want, in the name of 'engaging'.

I am for accepting my death and those of my loved ones, and for anyone else who may die with a clear mind. I have no use for illusions about 'security'.
alma
#129 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 9:50:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Wewe Tycho endelea na clear mind yako. Some of us still don't understand what you say 9/10th of the time.

But don't just call people unclear minds because they have decided to say something about an issue that's burning them.

Just as we let you with your clear minds chat and post on wazua, please do let us whine and moan as we wish. As you type on wazua, I'll probably be clobbered by a cop. lol.

In the meantime, more unclear minds just getting too tired of this games.

Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
washiku
#130 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 9:55:39 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Kratos wrote:
alma wrote:
So what santuri is going to be played for Kenyans today?

It's all very nice shouting and screaming how Alphdoti and the so called homegrown terrorists are finishing Kenyans. Kweli you think this santuri has not been played before? It's like copy pasting from the republican party and removing the name Osama with Al-Shabaab.

The question today is

Are you safe?

Second question is

ok, seriously, like in seriously. As in really seriously, where is the President of Kenya when half the teachers in a a district are massacred?

Sometimes in life, PR and massive tweets by Ole Itumbi don't work. I actually have massive respect for the fellow. It's rather difficult trying to run a social media campaign when the leader of a country is persona non grata.

Can we stop wasting time talking about Alphdoti? He was not in Mandera and if he was and he's still posting on Wazua then you can see we have more serious problems in matters security than we had imagined before.

Kenyans are killed. Someone in gov't says, that the people who did it were killed. Only to find out later that this may not be 100% accurate.

In the meantime, the President. Anyone found him yet? Ole Lenku has drawn a red line now with green dots for emphasis. Al -Shabaab is still tweeting.

We are one Santuri has scratches on it. Let's get another one shall we?


So long as collaborators and sympathizers are among us it does not matter whether we remove kdf from somalia, change the security team or even elect a new president the script will not change. Don't kid yourself. While you are here complaining about PR, al kebabs are celebrating that they have exceed their target. Yes lets fight amongst ourselves whilst our enemies continue to recruit among US. One thing Kenyans think is that they are the center of the universe and averse to things like terrorism. The fight begins with US.


@Kratos, I agree with you 100% that we should all play our part in this fight. Now lets interrogate that statement further.

1. What has I not done as @Washiku that I should have done to prevent people from being butchered? I have paid all my taxes, I voted in a government, Some guys were hired and are paid through my taxes to protect me because legally that is what the constitution that I voted for says. They continue drawing a salary every month(and others, due to the same position they occupy, they draw more than the salaries and other perks, they earn bribes, they "win" tenders and they have access to many more girlfriends-not that I care about that last part, just that they spend more time with them than they do serving us). I know my neighbour, I subject myself to searches by security officers, both police and watchmen, even when it completely doesn't make sense to. Let Uhuru let me know what else I have not done and I will do. He can as well give those teachers guns to protect themselves from Shabaab. They will die eventually, but there will be proof one Kebab was killed, unlike the ones Ruto told us and people laughed at him.

2. What could have those teachers done that they did not do? They asked for jobs, risked their lives and went to teach. They pay taxes too. Their worst problem was that they belonged to the "wrong" race or spiritual house. In fact, its coz they couldn't recite some verses in the Koran. If such a measure was to be used to determine which Christian dies or lives, I am sure many Christians would fail despite bearing Christian names. There could have been muslims who died simply coz they never took their Holy Book seriously thus they may have failed the verses-Hope you get my point.

3. You asked why those security heads should resign? Because we have given them many chances and they are yet to show some results. Heck, even in the places you work if you dont perform you go. The positions they hold are not hereditary, they are privileged to hold them. Its not their right. If they cant perfom, the most honorable thing would be to leave for someone else. I dont know whether the others would perform or not, but am hell sure the current ones are not performing. Honor would be when a man realizes what is at hand is too much to handle and they allowed someone else to try it out.

4. You see, terrorist attacking us is not the problem. The problem is those niggas attacking us time and again and again and again and again....and nobody is brought to book or held accountable. I dont think it can get worse. Its already too bad. You see, after Westgate, we should have really learned and changed tact. It should have been our best opportunity to show those young boys that we got something tough under our sleeves. Did we? Honestly do you think we did? Do you feel we did?

5. Where is Uhuru to blame? He has the powers to hire and fire. If he feels the laws in place are not sufficient enough, he controls the majority in parliament where laws are made. If its money, he has demonstrated he can get enough money if he wants. If he came to us and told us he needs money to fix security, we would pay. Didn't he pay Anglo-fleecing cash to the thieves, whether we liked it or not? As in, this guy has no excuse whatsoever.

Do people really understand what it means to lose a loved one? I think we can stop everything else save lives first. The sanctity of live is not for public/philosophical discussion. Its supreme. Why guarantee me cheap power, cheap food, decent transport and all those others if I am not assured of being there to enjoy them??? If I have to die, let me die of other things, not out of kebab thing.

tycho
#131 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:02:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
Wewe Tycho endelea na clear mind yako. Some of us still don't understand what you say 9/10th of the time.

But don't just call people unclear minds because they have decided to say something about an issue that's burning them.

Just as we let you with your clear minds chat and post on wazua, please do let us whine and moan as we wish. As you type on wazua, I'll probably be clobbered by a cop. lol.

In the meantime, more unclear minds just getting too tired of this games.



You think getting clobbered by a cop is more heroic than you understanding that you and your family are already dead?

Or you think firing Ole Lenku will create space for some genius or angel to shield you from the consequences of your choices? From your simple mindedness? Go ahead then!

As for me, am already at the battle front, taunting death. And when it comes, I am sure of defeating it.

Go get clobbered. Burn Lenku's effigy. Promise not to vote for Uhuru. Displace your emptiness with pseudo action.
Angelica _ann
#132 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:03:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,929
@Washiku you have laid it bare Applause Applause Applause
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
tycho
#133 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:06:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Washiku, you're such a miserable coward. Your loved ones dying isn't a matter of any discussion or conviction at all. You too are already dead!
alma
#134 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:09:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Applause Applause @Washiku that should be printed and sent where it needs to be read.

Guys are thinking its all about Mandera. There is a serious security gap in the country. I got a video which I will never share of a lady stripped and violently abused in a Kenya matatu. It's on whatsup and I just deleted it. Guess how many people are going to be arrested?

But today there's a whole batallion of mean looking dudes with huge rungus in town.

We may be waiting for a time bomb as we continue paying salaries to Ole Nenku and Kimaiyo.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Mukiri
#135 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:12:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
^^ @Wamapisha amesika! Thats a novel, like @....

Truth be told, we are living in the end times. Just be at peace with your God.

Proverbs 19:21
washiku
#136 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:20:26 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
tycho wrote:
@Washiku, you're such a miserable coward. Your loved ones dying isn't a matter of any discussion or conviction at all. You too are already dead!


Yes I am. I am so afraid of Al shabaab. I am so afraid of losing a life that means a lot to me. I am not sure how I could have handled the situation if my wife was caught up in the Westgate massacre, or that Mandera one. Thanks God she is safe. I assure you I dont know how I could have handled the situation. I may be wrong, but I also dont know how she would handle the situation if it was me gone. I shed tears when I saw people lose people in these terrorist attacks. I watched last night in great pain when a woman from Kieni explained how she lost two daughters in the latest massacre. Another family in Bungoma too could not hold back tears. You see, my problem is not really that it happened. It could happen to anyone. Me included. But the problem is that it keeps happening, and nothing seems to change. My friend, I am a coward. Am not like you. I fear death, esp when it happens due to someones negligence.

If am already dead, then I am afraid of dying again.
Kratos
#137 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:27:27 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
@ Washiku, while i don't dispute all what you're saying my point is that all those points DO NOT eradicate terrorism. You have just expressed your expectations and not given solutions. Again i ask, how will changing the security team, holding demos etc help in eradicating terrorism? IT WILL NOT! So long as the they live among us and we will not sacrifice them for the good of all.
Your points are about "I have done my bit as Washiku" what am saying is that there are many other Washiku's who are shielding this idiots.
Terrorism is not a conventional crime/war and you will never be free from it even though you have paid taxes and what not. How are other countries fighting this animal? By firing people and holding demos about insecurity? Not at all. By exposing their own brothers and sisters who are part of the problem. In fact i believe that al shabab would not have gained much traction in Kenya had there not been collaborators and sympathizers. Not to say that our systems have helped though.

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
washiku
#138 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:27:37 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Mukiri wrote:
^^ @Wamapisha amesika! Thats a novel, like @....

Truth be told, we are living in the end times. Just be at peace with your God.


He he...Mukiri, maybe you and me understands that part. I have taken care of it. I do that every moment. For I dont know the moment and the time. But if I may use the same reasoning, there are many who are yet to do it. Some its because they have not heard the good news. I hope you dont want them to die before you preach to them. I am so sure you dont want them to suffer forever in hell, do you? Let them live and get the opportunity to be at peace with their creator. After that, like Simeon they can ask God to take them now that they have fulfilled their mission on earth.
Mukiri
#139 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:39:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
washiku wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
^^ @Wamapisha amesika! Thats a novel, like @....

Truth be told, we are living in the end times. Just be at peace with your God.


He he...Mukiri, maybe you and me understands that part. I have taken care of it. I do that every moment. For I dont know the moment and the time. But if I may use the same reasoning, there are many who are yet to do it. Some its because they have not heard the good news. I hope you dont want them to die before you preach to them. I am so sure you dont want them to suffer forever in hell, do you? Let them live and get the opportunity to be at peace with their creator. After that, like Simeon they can ask God to take them now that they have fulfilled their mission on earth.

Ever wondered why good guys die young while, mathogothanio guys always stick around? Our God is a loving God... Don't stress yourself too much, do your part, nyengine leave to God.

Proverbs 19:21
Nandwa
#140 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:40:08 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049

If the political class was SERIOUSLY interested in getting the Kenyans in the villages, Estates, Slums streets etc to actively participate in the fight against terrorism, that goal would be achieved pronto.

But are they SERIOUSLY interested!!

The general public can not just organise themselves. More over this arrangements needs the right environment.

In US, UK Israel etc, the citizens there are not so organised out of the blues. The right conditions are created by the political leadership, not by accident but by design.
In our situation our leadership take advantage of society's relative ignorance to feed us bull crap as they engage in debilitating corruption and other forms of exploitation to a nascent and poor economy.

We all know that the average Kenyan does not trust the security personnel enough to pass any sensitive information about criminals, corruption, drug lords etc.
Of course this mistrust is not misplaced.

That aside any Government saying that it is unable to deal with a security issue in the magnitude of what we are currently dealing with in Kenya, then that Govt ought to declare itself incompetent and do the next logical thing under the circumstances.

Or else are we to resort to hopelessness or perhaps some divine intervention!

Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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