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Masjid Musa Mosque Mombasa
AlphDoti
#161 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:29:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Swenani wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
The worshippers of Satan killed four innocents in retaliation.

@robihood you've never improved yourself 2 years down the line? You are still as ignorant as you were then! From the time you thought there was coloured camera in the 6th century. From the time you were exposing your wife to alcoholism two years ago.

You claimed to know be learned, studied in University but your knowledge of things is so down. No difference between you and those villagers who believe lighting in some kind of dragon! But it is clear that if you were informed, you would know that Muslims do not worship Satan. You would know that Muhammad was prophesied in the Bible. You would know that Muslims worship God. You would be fair enough to assume there must be innocent in both sides of the camps. About guilt, we cannot tell that. You won't know, and I won't know.

Haiya!!

Aren't you the same person who keeps on saying that those who kill are not true muslims?But now you are claiming that they are actually muslims who worship God.

Wonders will never cease!!!!

Ok, @swenani, maybe I over reacted.

You see, we know everywhere in the world, there are evil people, every society, every race, every tribe, every continent. But selectively ignoring the wrongs others are doing and then refer to the victim as Satan worshiper means people are ignorant.

We know anywhere in the world, there are people who call themselves Muslims but do not live upto what Islam teaches, ...these are thugs in Islamic clothing. But that does not warrant those words used by @robihood.

I have come to realize that ignorance is to blame for the bad reputation Islam is getting.

So if anyone committed crime, then that is not Islam. That person is a criminal. There are criminals all over.

Kwani what are those who killed police officers in Kapendo worshiping? Why didn't we hear the same kind of venom towards them?
Rahatupu
#162 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:57:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
I have said it here and will say it again. Terrorism is not criminal. It cannot be fought using conventional policing tactics, only a very hard and firm extra judicial means will break such fanatics. Elimination of their command and control leadership,cutting their financial bases,isolating their sympathisers,and spiritual accomplices will get towards stemming the tide. The politicians in Mombasa seem to have realised the folly of sympathising with these louts.
jaggernaut
#163 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:55:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
Saddened by what has become of the once lovely and safe coastal city. Soo sad that one can be stabbed anytime on the streets. No more holidays at the coast since one can be killed any moment.
Swenani
#164 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:25:52 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Rahatupu wrote:
I have said it here and will say it again. Terrorism is not criminal. It cannot be fought using conventional policing tactics, only a very hard and firm extra judicial means will break such fanatics. Elimination of their command and control leadership,cutting their financial bases,isolating their sympathisers,and spiritual accomplices will get towards stemming the tide. The politicians in Mombasa seem to have realised the folly of sympathising with these louts.

True,the only way to fight terrorism is through engaging the community otherwise, the govt might end up radicalizing the whole coastal region who might feel that they are being targeted
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
AlphDoti
#165 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:34:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Swenani wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
I have said it here and will say it again. Terrorism is not criminal. It cannot be fought using conventional policing tactics, only a very hard and firm extra judicial means will break such fanatics. Elimination of their command and control leadership,cutting their financial bases,isolating their sympathisers,and spiritual accomplices will get towards stemming the tide. The politicians in Mombasa seem to have realised the folly of sympathising with these louts.

True,the only way to fight terrorism is through engaging the community otherwise, the govt might end up radicalizing the whole coastal region who might feel that they are being targeted

This is true. I liked yesterday's guests on TV discussing this issue. It was very straight minded trio.

One of them made a good observation that, maybe the govt has done this the wrong way. Maybe the govt is professional in the action. He said it is obvious the clerics have done enough, the issue has been politicalized. When they talked, they were killed.
That's why both the good clerics and those suspected to be extreme are killed.

Extra-judicial killing is never the solution. Using intelligence is the solution.

As far as terror is concerned, one speaker observed that, before Kenya was never a primary target, it was the U.S. Kenya was just secondary victim. It was not until after 2011 that Kenya became a target.
symbols
#166 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:24:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
B.Timer
#167 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:32:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
AlphDoti wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
I have said it here and will say it again. Terrorism is not criminal. It cannot be fought using conventional policing tactics, only a very hard and firm extra judicial means will break such fanatics. Elimination of their command and control leadership,cutting their financial bases,isolating their sympathisers,and spiritual accomplices will get towards stemming the tide. The politicians in Mombasa seem to have realised the folly of sympathising with these louts.

True,the only way to fight terrorism is through engaging the community otherwise, the govt might end up radicalizing the whole coastal region who might feel that they are being targeted

This is true. I liked yesterday's guests on TV discussing this issue. It was very straight minded trio.

One of them made a good observation that, maybe the govt has done this the wrong way. Maybe the govt is professional in the action. He said it is obvious the clerics have done enough, the issue has been politicalized. When they talked, they were killed.
That's why both the good clerics and those suspected to be extreme are killed.

Extra-judicial killing is never the solution. Using intelligence is the solution.

As far as terror is concerned, one speaker observed that, before Kenya was never a primary target, it was the U.S. Kenya was just secondary victim. It was not until after 2011 that Kenya became a target.


That's positive. But all of us including your self need to desist from making comments that for all intents and purposes are sympathetic and serve to embloden the terrorist as well as skewing the thinking process of other people, especialt youths who may believe you.
That my brother is a deservice to mother Country.

Think of the number of people who are rethinking taking their holiday in Mombasa this Christmas season!

Dunia ni msongamano..
Wainadi
#168 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:35:05 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/6/2013
Posts: 640

according to 'moderate' muslims all these is danganya toto jinga.
Its all good.
washiku
#169 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:40:20 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
AlphDoti wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
I have said it here and will say it again. Terrorism is not criminal. It cannot be fought using conventional policing tactics, only a very hard and firm extra judicial means will break such fanatics. Elimination of their command and control leadership,cutting their financial bases,isolating their sympathisers,and spiritual accomplices will get towards stemming the tide. The politicians in Mombasa seem to have realised the folly of sympathising with these louts.

True,the only way to fight terrorism is through engaging the community otherwise, the govt might end up radicalizing the whole coastal region who might feel that they are being targeted

This is true. I liked yesterday's guests on TV discussing this issue. It was very straight minded trio.

One of them made a good observation that, maybe the govt has done this the wrong way. Maybe the govt is professional in the action. He said it is obvious the clerics have done enough, the issue has been politicalized. When they talked, they were killed.
That's why both the good clerics and those suspected to be extreme are killed.

Extra-judicial killing is never the solution. Using intelligence is the solution.

As far as terror is concerned, one speaker observed that, before Kenya was never a primary target, it was the U.S. Kenya was just secondary victim. It was not until after 2011 that Kenya became a target.


When the intelligence is used and there is solid proof that there are grenades in a mosque at 3am and the police goes for them, then we call that "Danganya toto njinga" how is that?
Muriel
#170 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:15:31 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142



I know they could have been keeping those things safely there intending to hand them over to the police at 8 am in the morning.

Police just had to fall over themselves to ruin the intended good gesture of goodwill. Whats so hard in waiting and watching for just 5 more hours? Like draculas they only see and are seen at night?

You must not rush to blanket intimated condemnation over one grenade or else there will be repercussions.

Renegade.
washiku
#171 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:24:54 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Muriel wrote:



I know they could have been keeping those things safely there intending to hand them over to the police at 8 am in the morning.

Police just had to fall over themselves to ruin the intended good gesture of goodwill. Whats so hard in waiting and watching for just 5 more hours? Like draculas they only see and are seen at night?

You must not rush to blanket intimated condemnation over one grenade or else there will be repercussions.

Renegade.


smile smile Nice one.
shocks
#172 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:28:01 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/15/2009
Posts: 362
Swenani wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
I have said it here and will say it again. Terrorism is not criminal. It cannot be fought using conventional policing tactics, only a very hard and firm extra judicial means will break such fanatics. Elimination of their command and control leadership,cutting their financial bases,isolating their sympathisers,and spiritual accomplices will get towards stemming the tide. The politicians in Mombasa seem to have realised the folly of sympathising with these louts.

True,the only way to fight terrorism is through engaging the community otherwise, the govt might end up radicalizing the whole coastal region who might feel that they are being targeted


Problem is muslims might feel targeted, not the entire coast populace, and funnily the waswahili muslims are the ones catching the most, maybe, just maybe a UMA vs IPK might again be the solution
Euge
#173 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:45:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/4/2008
Posts: 2,849
Location: Rupi


These are more of armories than mosques.Sad
Lord, thank you!
washiku
#174 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:48:50 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
No wonder these young boys have been chasing older Imams from the mosques. Sad
Ngong
#175 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:22:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2012
Posts: 1,461
Location: Ngong Forest
Euge wrote:


These are more of armories than mosques.Sad


So 251 youth were arrested, 24/28 at the mosque, now tell me what charge will be preffered to the over 220 young men arrested at their homes?
When all this is done/harassment Will he ever be on your side?
Were any weapons found in their homes?
Muriel
#176 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:31:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
washiku wrote:
Muriel wrote:



I know they could have been keeping those things safely there intending to hand them over to the police at 8 am in the morning.

Police just had to fall over themselves to ruin the intended good gesture of goodwill. Whats so hard in waiting and watching for just 5 more hours? Like draculas they only see and are seen at night?

You must not rush to blanket intimated condemnation over one grenade or else there will be repercussions.

Renegade.


smile smile Nice one.


I'm serious.
Muriel
#177 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:39:18 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Ngong wrote:
Euge wrote:


These are more of armories than mosques.Sad


So 251 youth were arrested, 24/28 at the mosque, now tell me what charge will be preffered to the over 220 young men arrested at their homes?
When all this is done/harassment Will he ever be on your side?
Were any weapons found in their homes?


All those arrested were the owners of the one hand grenade found.

For a spot in the news in some shady newspapers that are only good for wrapping meat, collateral resentment is piled sky high.
Rahatupu
#178 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:42:46 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Swenani wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
I have said it here and will say it again. Terrorism is not criminal. It cannot be fought using conventional policing tactics, only a very hard and firm extra judicial means will break such fanatics. Elimination of their command and control leadership,cutting their financial bases,isolating their sympathisers,and spiritual accomplices will get towards stemming the tide. The politicians in Mombasa seem to have realised the folly of sympathising with these louts.

True,the only way to fight terrorism is through engaging the community otherwise, the govt might end up radicalizing the whole coastal region who might feel that they are being targeted
.

@Swenani, please provide practical and actionable ways of this engagement. By practical I mean when faced with an immediate and real threat to property, limb and life, do you suggest the said youths be coyed and be coddled to give up the weapons?

From a tactical level, you must appreciate that the only approach is elimination of the threat by countering it with the same or more force than they can muster. Unless they are fearful of the legitimate state violence, there can be no deal it would be either their way (they have it with the mosques) or the civilised way. Why didn't the "entire" communities in Murang'a and Kirinyaga become radicalized after Mungiki were neutralized the hard way? Are all Pokots radicalized by the KDF operation? SLDF?

No X-mas windfall for local businesses this year at the coast.

@Alphdoti, how is intelligence to be used/acted upon? At some point action is bound to be taken. When this happens ohhh "Muslims are targeted". I have noticed the silence of the political leadership in Mombasa on this one, going forward if they desist from sympathizing with the radicals then we'll rid the region of this threatening menace.
Rahatupu
#179 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:48:09 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Muriel wrote:
Ngong wrote:
Euge wrote:


These are more of armories than mosques.Sad


So 251 youth were arrested, 24/28 at the mosque, now tell me what charge will be preffered to the over 220 young men arrested at their homes?
When all this is done/harassment Will he ever be on your side?
Were any weapons found in their homes?


All those arrested were the owners of the one hand grenade found.

For a spot in the news in some shady newspapers that are only good for wrapping meat, collateral resentment is piled sky high.


@Muriel, the ops should be smarter, I agree, but as for delaying action Shame on you no no. Smarter, I mean target the members with the highest responsibility and eliminate them. Disorientate the leadership and cripple it deplete its resources and skills. It can be done.
Muriel
#180 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 2:40:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Rahatupu wrote:
Muriel wrote:
Ngong wrote:
Euge wrote:


These are more of armories than mosques.Sad


So 251 youth were arrested, 24/28 at the mosque, now tell me what charge will be preffered to the over 220 young men arrested at their homes?
When all this is done/harassment Will he ever be on your side?
Were any weapons found in their homes?


All those arrested were the owners of the one hand grenade found.

For a spot in the news in some shady newspapers that are only good for wrapping meat, collateral resentment is piled sky high.


@Muriel, the ops should be smarter, I agree, but as for delaying action Shame on you no no. Smarter, I mean target the members with the highest responsibility and eliminate them. Disorientate the leadership and cripple it deplete its resources and skills. It can be done.


I do not want to sound like Alma - I have my own individuality 'alien' from his, but surely I cannot reconcile this route they have taken with the SOP you have just described.

Midnight raids with platoons of armed police to recover a hand grenade and some DVDs ought to hardly create confidence in you, Rahatupu. Yet it does help a great deal to create anger. There will be repercussions.
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