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It's a presidential system
McReggae
#21 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 8:28:25 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
........and when we get a really imperial president then we shall start asking for constitutional review again.....we forget what triggered the clamour for a new constitution.......in the current parliament we have proffessional from all walks of life, don't be fooled that all be well and ok just because our one centre of power appoints the cabinet from outside parliament......think about all those his aspirant buddies who shall have lost in the elections!!!!Shame on you
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
niando
#22 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:13:26 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/5/2008
Posts: 174


Wa_ithaka wrote:
Talk about a dog chasing its own tail.
We spend 20 years and almost Ksh20bn yapping about a new constitution that among other things, gets rid of the imperial president and then we arrive at the conclusion that an imperial president is a good thing!
Just to make it even worse, we are giving him the powers to select non-elected memmbers of his family;tribe;golf;clan;church;religion et al as ministers...



very well said.and my answer to the referendum remains NOOOOOO unless someone convinces me otherwise.
For bookkeeping and bank loan interest recalculation try us:niando.becia@gmail.com
B.Timer
#23 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:41:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
It is not the presidential system per se that put us in problems, but giving the incumbent near absolute power.
With proper checks and balances it can work just fine.
You shouldnt Swap it with the untested Parliamentary one (by ourselves).
The devil we know can be dehorned, which we have.

As pertains increasing parliamentary seats its the right thing to do.
When we were 20million we were represented by 222 Mps. At 40million it is only natural that that number grows.
A realistic MP / constituents ratio has to be upheld.

If 20Million people could pay 222 Mps, 40Million wont have a problem paying 300Mps.
The tax base is larger bwana.
Dunia ni msongamano..
niando
#24 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 12:11:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/5/2008
Posts: 174
B timer

Is there a clause determining how the MPigs should raise their parks..If we have 325 mpigs and they decide to unanimously increase their salaries by 100% will it be a laughing matter?
For bookkeeping and bank loan interest recalculation try us:niando.becia@gmail.com
B.Timer
#25 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 1:02:21 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
@Niando
I am not very clear if the new constitution will expressly bar the MPs from improving theirs perks, but I believe that clause need be there like juzi.
It is ridiculous to ask anybody to determine their pay. History bears us out on this.

If 325 increased their current perks by 100% I would mobilise you and others to storm that parliament and push some hard sense into their heads. That would amount ti lots of mang'ondo.

Similarly if the current 222 MPs increased theirs by 150% it would also amount to awful lot of cash.
Hence for me the issue isnt the number of MPs. The issue lies somewhere else. Lets find area and fix it pronto.

Dunia ni msongamano..
Jaina
#26 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 1:13:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/13/2008
Posts: 558
There seems to be alot of emphasis on the pay of the MP's who do not actually work since half of them are either ministers or assistants. With the proposed system, MP'S will have no excuse but to work. ,....Meaning since none of them will be in cabinet, what else will they be after except check on the Govt and its excesses. Since you are going to pay them anyway, why not pay them for work done.

In addition, all presidential appointee's will be vetted by parliament. People with good CV's and ability to deliver will get the jobs. Not so and so's father was blah blah,.....etc. It also bars loosing MP's from eligibility as Cabinet ministers.

The idea of Non-Mp president makes it even better. The perenial loosers will shy away. And again allegence to the president will NOT be "rewarded with a cabinet post".

The ministers will be the CEO's and hence the conflict between PS and Minister will cease to exist. Simply put, ministries will be run proffesionally.

In my opinion this is the Best system that is good for kenya. BIG YES YES!. Its less expensive having 325 Mps earning 1M per month, than to have the likes of Mwakwere as Transport Minister.
africa
#27 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 6:10:53 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/22/2010
Posts: 2
first of all its important to note any institution no matter how solid on paper is run by people, so we may create any and all institutions , contitutions but until the people running them are honorable i dont see any real forward movement from where weve been for so long .

on a parliamentary system , i get a headache thinking of our current MP's . from what they have shown of themselves . buying, selling and killing in and out of parliament .irrespective of how they negatively affect the population and country, self intrest : taxes , pay hikes and benefits , cars MP ministers refused to hand over .... theres no end ,SO WHO WOULD CHECK THESE PEOPLE ? as voters we have continued to elect mps for all the wrong reasons and i dont see that changing any time soon . a combination of a civic illiterate population , tribalism , poverty will ensure this doesnt change soon . for me i wouldnt trust those crooks with anything let alone run a country , though im sure there are a few good people somewhere in there .
africa
#28 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 6:59:34 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/22/2010
Posts: 2
i think having either a prime minister or president works , but giving them both executive powers is a recipe for disaster for so many reasons . look at france , rwanda , TZ and every other country that has both .... one has executive authority and the other ceremonial , not to say we have to model a government based on others but from what we have all , the never ending turf wars , divisiveness just doesnt work well for national cohension . so electing a president .... note theres nothing that prevents him from continuing to reward political cronies , infact in govt a minister is almost always a political appointment and it doesnt really matter if that changes or not .. though i think it wont change because the president needs allies in govt at that level to push his agenda .... good or bad ... the PS is the one who runs a ministry in every sense ... and thats where there should be separation because you have idiotic ministers with no expertise on the dockets they hold trying to run them , trying to formulate policy and so on . if you appoint profesional ministers then you dont need a PS or again two centers of power , opinion , though in a ministry . SO it really comes down to electing a president from a politcal party with a good platform , good policies and so on , and letting an independent parliament and judiciary check how these policies and such are implemented according to the law . i think the biggest thing that will come out of the separation of these three parts of government is LOBBYING . the lobbyists are the unseen hands that reconnect the three arms of government . SO ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES ON A NEW CONSTITUTION WONT REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON HOW THINGS ARE DONE UNTIL we the voters start making the right choices , and good choices from our actions , and one of the more important things KENYANS have become so quick we are at a risk of overtaking ourselves and by that i mean .... everywhere you go someone is asking for a bribe or someone is bribing , you steal food for the starving to sell , you steal money to educate poor children .. to be kenyan needs to start meaning something else .
Zakumi
#29 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 7:57:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: 152
The fight for a new constitution is one that has been with us for close to 20yrs and never has thea been more light at the end of the tunnel than now.

True the draft needs some panel beating especially on the number of Mps and their perks,bt its far much a significant step in the right direction.Kenyans should unreservedly sieze this constitutional moment.

The requirement of the president not being an mp and the illegibility of an mp for a cabinet post would surely sound a death knell to the age of cronyism and tribalism.
The Strong Do What They Want,The Weak Do What They Must!
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