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The Acorn Saga - Britam vs Cytonn
mv_ufanisi
#41 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 12:08:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
The screws are starting to get tightened. By the end of this saga these guys might lose everything.
tinker
#42 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 12:42:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 454
Location: Nairobi
muganda wrote:
tinker wrote:
Old Money vs New Money battle...


Wait, hold-up, I see the old money, 3.9bn of it. Where's the new money...

Old Money vs New Leverage
Old Money vs New Dealings
Old Money vs House of cards

And the talk of mediation, what mediation! If you've upset the funder, just return the money.


Speaking of - House of Cards Ft Frank J. Underwoods, I recommend it to Acorn Director's and I believe its a must watch for any
one who knows politics has its place in every field. meanwhile am sitting back and watching to see whether the end will justify the means.
....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
innairobi
#43 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 12:45:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 845
Have my reservations on whether this 'fraud' as Britam describes it, actually took place. Britam could just be playing hardball. Still, it is not an impossible fraud to pull off because it would involve collusion of key decision makers.

Will be a difficult road ahead for the new outfit. Britam has more levers it can pull and a more resilient brand than the new guys i.e. can withstand this jolt on reputation. Britam also has a far larger network of associates and allies in Corporate Kenya so can make life hard even without going through the courts. Cyton could end up excluded by default from certain big deals.

Eventually, Cyton & Co. will concede and the matter will be settled out of court to their disadvantage.
All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
hisah
#44 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 12:54:34 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Golden handcuffs. Serious fraud. Unbelievable! Yet CMA is silent. Waiting to see how that 3.9B gap will be covered up in FY results. What are investors and clients to do with such serious fraud? I believe the fireworks are yet to begin...
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
mkonomtupu
#45 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 1:40:06 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Angelica _ann wrote:
What is Britam telling us about their policies, systems and risk management among 'other' issues.


When you see LLPs and off-shore corporations be afraid. If our CMA was serious they would be asking tough questions. For this share and its sister Centum the issue is all about risk management.

These are the kind of buses that drop off the cliff. Know when to walk away, know when to run
VituVingiSana
#46 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 7:49:41 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,039
Location: Nairobi
Dande-Kiraithe need some powerful godfathers. The Mwangi-Wairegi-Mbaru axis will not rest until these interlopers are punished. Dande should not have bitten the hand that fed him.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
maka
#47 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 8:13:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Dande-Kiraithe need some powerful godfathers. The Mwangi-Wairegi-Mbaru axis will not rest until these interlopers are punished. Dance should not have bitten the hand that fed him.

Word...
possunt quia posse videntur
Kausha
#48 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2014 9:06:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
When our media were being paid to paint a nice picture for the protagonists it was laughable. Here we need more popcorn and coke. It appears the flick has just started.
sparkly
#49 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 8:17:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Dande-Kiraithe need some powerful godfathers. The Mwangi-Wairegi-Mbaru axis will not rest until these interlopers are punished. Dande should not have bitten the hand that fed him.


Sad that these young guys are being punished for being ambitious and entrepreneural. But that is the nature of corporate warfare. I hope they have some counter they can pull to keep the old men quiet re Kiereini and Njonjo.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Kausha
#50 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 8:58:08 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
@sparkly why are you assuming they are being punished for ambition and business acumen. There is a case in court. May be we listen to the case first. The accusations are quite huge to constitute a casual witch hunt i think.

Lets see whether CMA or IRA will show up if they dont and judge listens and rules against Britam we can conclude it was witch hunting.
premio
#51 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 8:59:09 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/31/2009
Posts: 226
Sm1 make me understand i guess the 4 ex-employees are being accussed of transferring the Money that was in BAAM control to funds accounts in Acorn control without consent from BAAM not criminally stealing the funds for own use is that right. Britam is just hitting back here for the loss of the Acorn deal u want to tell me BAAM can loose 3.9b in july and only notice in november i see a wounded lion here.
We know very well with restraining orders and the courts issued and possibility of case dragging in 4 years investors will not want to loose out and will go to baam begging them to withdrawal the case and of course with a promise that they sign up with baam
maka
#52 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 9:55:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
premio wrote:
Sm1 make me understand i guess the 4 ex-employees are being accussed of transferring the Money that was in BAAM control to funds accounts in Acorn control without consent from BAAM not criminally stealing the funds for own use is that right. Britam is just hitting back here for the loss of the Acorn deal u want to tell me BAAM can loose 3.9b in july and only notice in november i see a wounded lion here.
We know very well with restraining orders and the courts issued and possibility of case dragging in 4 years investors will not want to loose out and will go to baam begging them to withdrawal the case and of course with a promise that they sign up with baam

key word "without consent"...If it's that way that's totally wrong and actually a criminal offence.Cases get wrapped up pretty fast this days can't last the 4 years you are talking about...
possunt quia posse videntur
mawinder
#53 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 11:15:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
premio wrote:
Sm1 make me understand i guess the 4 ex-employees are being accussed of transferring the Money that was in BAAM control to funds accounts in Acorn control without consent from BAAM not criminally stealing the funds for own use is that right. Britam is just hitting back here for the loss of the Acorn deal u want to tell me BAAM can loose 3.9b in july and only notice in november i see a wounded lion here.
We know very well with restraining orders and the courts issued and possibility of case dragging in 4 years investors will not want to loose out and will go to baam begging them to withdrawal the case and of course with a promise that they sign up with baam

I hope the share drops so that I can accumulate some as we wait for any good announcement from Britam!!!!!!!!!!
kryptonite
#54 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 12:07:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/1/2010
Posts: 272
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Dande-Kiraithe need some powerful godfathers. The Mwangi-Wairegi-Mbaru axis will not rest until these interlopers are punished. Dande should not have bitten the hand that fed him.


Sad that these young guys are being punished for being ambitious and entrepreneural. But that is the nature of corporate warfare. I hope they have some counter they can pull to keep the old men quiet re Kiereini and Njonjo.


@sparkly
Surely you don't believe the young guys are completely innocent on this? Let us see how the case goes, however, prima facie it does look like they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. The details coming through sound pretty damning.

In the CMC saga, the young axis (Kibe and co) was pretty powerful by itself and had the government of the day on their side. What about Dande-Kiraithe?
The harder you work, the luckier you get
VituVingiSana
#55 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 6:47:10 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,039
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Dande-Kiraithe need some powerful godfathers. The Mwangi-Wairegi-Mbaru axis will not rest until these interlopers are punished. Dande should not have bitten the hand that fed him.


Sad that these young guys are being punished for being ambitious and entrepreneural. But that is the nature of corporate warfare. I hope they have some counter they can pull to keep the old men quiet re Kiereini and Njonjo.
I disagree. I think what Dande & Company did was run their own firm on Britam's time. They should have walked away with a Rolodex + Reputation. Instead they walked away with funds gathered/solicited (not stolen) on Britam's dime. Fundraising requires time, money, reputation and patience. Even worse, they found the bride, negotiated the brideprice and then they eloped with Britam's bride. And the brideprice. And then rubbed it in Britam's face.

Others like David Owino [formerly of Centum] is doing his own thing but not with a Centum project.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#56 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 6:50:37 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,039
Location: Nairobi
maka wrote:
premio wrote:
Sm1 make me understand i guess the 4 ex-employees are being accussed of transferring the Money that was in BAAM control to funds accounts in Acorn control without consent from BAAM not criminally stealing the funds for own use is that right. Britam is just hitting back here for the loss of the Acorn deal u want to tell me BAAM can loose 3.9b in july and only notice in november i see a wounded lion here.
We know very well with restraining orders and the courts issued and possibility of case dragging in 4 years investors will not want to loose out and will go to baam begging them to withdrawal the case and of course with a promise that they sign up with baam

key word "without consent"...If it's that way that's totally wrong and actually a criminal offence.Cases get wrapped up pretty fast this days can't last the 4 years you are talking about...
What are you smoking? Cases are still taking ages to get resolved. The enthusiasm in the judiciary is gone. Now it is all about in-fighting and delays. Cases are getting postponed, the courts start late, dates are being given 2 months from application. And that's not to hear the case but just to get a hearing date!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#57 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 6:56:04 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,039
Location: Nairobi
maka wrote:
premio wrote:
Sm1 make me understand i guess the 4 ex-employees are being accussed of transferring the Money that was in BAAM control to funds accounts in Acorn control without consent from BAAM not criminally stealing the funds for own use is that right. Britam is just hitting back here for the loss of the Acorn deal u want to tell me BAAM can loose 3.9b in july and only notice in november i see a wounded lion here.
We know very well with restraining orders and the courts issued and possibility of case dragging in 4 years investors will not want to loose out and will go to baam begging them to withdrawal the case and of course with a promise that they sign up with baam

key word "without consent"...If it's that way that's totally wrong and actually a criminal offence.Cases get wrapped up pretty fast this days can't last the 4 years you are talking about...
What are you smoking? Cases are still taking ages to get resolved. The enthusiasm in the judiciary is gone. Now it is all about in-fighting and delays. Cases are getting postponed, the courts start late, dates are being given 2 months from application. And that's not to hear the case but just to get a hearing date!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
newfarer
#58 Posted : Saturday, November 01, 2014 7:32:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,503
Location: Uganda
cyton was trying to build on another persons foundation. it back fired
punda amecheka
Realtreaty
#59 Posted : Sunday, November 02, 2014 12:28:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,260
VituVingiSana wrote:
maka wrote:
premio wrote:
Sm1 make me understand i guess the 4 ex-employees are being accussed of transferring the Money that was in BAAM control to funds accounts in Acorn control without consent from BAAM not criminally stealing the funds for own use is that right. Britam is just hitting back here for the loss of the Acorn deal u want to tell me BAAM can loose 3.9b in july and only notice in november i see a wounded lion here.
We know very well with restraining orders and the courts issued and possibility of case dragging in 4 years investors will not want to loose out and will go to baam begging them to withdrawal the case and of course with a promise that they sign up with baam

key word "without consent"...If it's that way that's totally wrong and actually a criminal offence.Cases get wrapped up pretty fast this days can't last the 4 years you are talking about...
What are you smoking? Cases are still taking ages to get resolved. The enthusiasm in the judiciary is gone. Now it is all about in-fighting and delays. Cases are getting postponed, the courts start late, dates are being given 2 months from application. And that's not to hear the case but just to get a hearing date!

d'oh! d'oh! That in financial parlance is called Fraud and should be taken seriously by financial organisations and other affiliated groups like ACCK, Central Bank, NSE, CMA(to protect shareholders equity)
The penalty should be to repay the money with interest and loose certificate to operate Cytonn for a period not lower than 2 years plus pay a fine as a detterent.
Realtreaty
#60 Posted : Sunday, November 02, 2014 12:40:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,260
Realtreaty wrote:
Britam runs after cytton to get what was taken from it. The best thing is that it will now punish Cytton like a mother caning a naughty son
This is what we call thieving or fraud. This is a case that would teach Cytton a lesson as CBK, CMA, Anti- corruption commission will get involved to solve and punish corporate fraud.Fraud because shareholders equity was endangered and lack corporate ethics Sad

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