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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Gordon Gekko wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:obiero wrote:binadamu yawa. ptho. people forget KQ has been consistently making profit for more than 30 years. usione simba amenyeshewa ukadhani ni paka Where did you get your data from? KQ was 100% gov't owned until the early 90s [Speedwing Consulting brought in KLM] until it was restructured. Please provide us with the data for the past 30 years to enable us buy into your theory. Were these the days of VC10, Fokker 27 and Boeing 707  strong KQ profit history
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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sparkly wrote:murchr wrote:sparkly wrote:murchr wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:the first of five 737 800 is on its way to the motherland.. when the inevitable profit turnaround comes soon, most wazuans will be left wondering.. The airline business makes money for everyone else except the shareholder. Money for the plane manufacturers, financiers/lessors, oil companies, pilots and executives but nothing left for the shareholders. As optimistic as I am for KQ and its newer fleet, I Know that operating and financing costs will go up exponentially, offsetting increase in revenues and savings in maintenance. Avoid generalizations and blanket statements, there are airlines out there making money for its shareholders. You cant say that for airlines such as Singapore airlines Last year Delta Airlines paid quarterly dividends and did some share buy back, you know how that can affect the price. Tho they last did it in 2003. US Airlines has been profitable for some time and bought/merged with AA. Southwest has been giving its shareholders dividends every quarter but their plus has been their business strategy. Hedging. With Oil prices going down , KQ would get a loss if they locked down a high price. But i have no idea how that balances out with a strong Dollar. A List of Airlines that have crash landed! Comeon @Sparky i thought you're more intelligent than that. In every industry, all the companies that dont adapt and change with the environment DIE. It doesnt matter if its in banking or manufacturing. @murchr in the airline industry failure is the rule rather than the exception. lets talk facts, shall we... The airline industry is characterized by: 1. High barriers to entry because of capital costs and regulations. 2. Low profit margins. 3. High fixed costs for fuel, personnel, debt service and lease rentals. 4. Highly competitive, with constant price wars and ticket discounting. Most are highly subsidized national assets. Our beloved pride of Africa's (one of the best performing and managed airlines in the world) revenues for the last 3 yrs combined was KShs 311B but only KShs 1.6B reached the shareholders! Putting that money in T Bills would have earned you at least KShs 30B. IMO, compared with other investments, project mawingu is just creating a bigger giant with a softer under belly. Now @murchr which of the above do you dispute? Give reasons. Spot on... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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6th dreamliner lands tomorrow :) 53 aircraft and counting.. Ethiopian & SA are finally about to meet their match. No more marketing competition based on young fleet, onboard entertainment and flat beds
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:6th dreamliner lands tomorrow :) 53 aircraft and counting.. Ethiopian & SA are finally about to meet their match. No more marketing competition based on young fleet, onboard entertainment and flat beds Today landed at 1040.... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:obiero wrote:6th dreamliner lands tomorrow :) 53 aircraft and counting.. Ethiopian & SA are finally about to meet their match. No more marketing competition based on young fleet, onboard entertainment and flat beds Today landed at 1040.... New young fleet diminishing network... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/27/2008 Posts: 3,760
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@obiero, @maka something's happening at JKIA with a KQ plane, Kenya Red Cross rushing there, what's happening?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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Gordon Gekko wrote:@obiero, @maka something's happening at JKIA with a KQ plane, Kenya Red Cross rushing there, what's happening? @GG nothin wrong with any KQ plane at JKIA.. as far as I can gather
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,503 Location: Uganda
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sparkly wrote:newfarer wrote:
KQ plane makes emergency
landing at Mombasa airport
A KQ plane had to make an emergency
landing at Moi International Airport, Mombasa
after running out of fuel.
Rink? http://mobile.nation.co.ke/
obiero wrote:Gordon Gekko wrote:@obiero, @maka something's happening at JKIA with a KQ plane, Kenya Red Cross rushing there, what's happening? @GG nothin wrong with any KQ plane at JKIA.. as far as I can gather punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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maka wrote:sparkly wrote:murchr wrote:sparkly wrote:murchr wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:the first of five 737 800 is on its way to the motherland.. when the inevitable profit turnaround comes soon, most wazuans will be left wondering.. The airline business makes money for everyone else except the shareholder. Money for the plane manufacturers, financiers/lessors, oil companies, pilots and executives but nothing left for the shareholders. As optimistic as I am for KQ and its newer fleet, I Know that operating and financing costs will go up exponentially, offsetting increase in revenues and savings in maintenance. Avoid generalizations and blanket statements, there are airlines out there making money for its shareholders. You cant say that for airlines such as Singapore airlines Last year Delta Airlines paid quarterly dividends and did some share buy back, you know how that can affect the price. Tho they last did it in 2003. US Airlines has been profitable for some time and bought/merged with AA. Southwest has been giving its shareholders dividends every quarter but their plus has been their business strategy. Hedging. With Oil prices going down , KQ would get a loss if they locked down a high price. But i have no idea how that balances out with a strong Dollar. A List of Airlines that have crash landed! Comeon @Sparky i thought you're more intelligent than that. In every industry, all the companies that dont adapt and change with the environment DIE. It doesnt matter if its in banking or manufacturing. @murchr in the airline industry failure is the rule rather than the exception. lets talk facts, shall we... The airline industry is characterized by: 1. High barriers to entry because of capital costs and regulations. Good discourages competition2. Low profit margins. Depends on business strategy3. High fixed costs for fuel, personnel, debt service and lease rentals. Depends on business strategy, you can use financial strategies to mitigate this4. Highly competitive, with constant price wars and ticket discounting. Most are highly subsidized national assets. That is only true in airspaces that are crowded. And like every industry gov plays a roleOur beloved pride of Africa's (one of the best performing and managed airlines in the world) revenues for the last 3 yrs combined was KShs 311B but only KShs 1.6B reached the shareholders! Well the airline has been acquiring planes so increasing the assets of the business thus giving itself some competitive edge, or how else would they compete?Putting that money in T Bills would have earned you at least KShs 30B. IMO, compared with other investments, project mawingu is just creating a bigger giant with a softer under belly. There was no way KQ would have faced competition with while using planes that were guzzlers, they had to acquire planes that give then value for moneyNow @murchr which of the above do you dispute? Give reasons. Spot on... Done "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:Gordon Gekko wrote:@obiero, @maka something's happening at JKIA with a KQ plane, Kenya Red Cross rushing there, what's happening? @GG nothin wrong with any KQ plane at JKIA.. as far as I can gather There was a plane from Delhi which had an issue, media (Citizen) is all over the place claiming it kwishad mafuta far from the truth...something about a fuel cross feed valve popping...How many pax did the plane have again...38...A plane meant to carry 116. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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maka wrote:obiero wrote:Gordon Gekko wrote:@obiero, @maka something's happening at JKIA with a KQ plane, Kenya Red Cross rushing there, what's happening? @GG nothin wrong with any KQ plane at JKIA.. as far as I can gather There was a plane from Delhi which had an issue, media (Citizen) is all over the place claiming it kwishad mafuta far from the truth...something about a fuel cross feed valve popping...How many pax did the plane have again...38...A plane meant to carry 116. True. At mombasa. Not JKIA
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,053 Location: Nairobi
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sparkly wrote:murchr wrote:sparkly wrote:murchr wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:the first of five 737 800 is on its way to the motherland.. when the inevitable profit turnaround comes soon, most wazuans will be left wondering.. The airline business makes money for everyone else except the shareholder. Money for the plane manufacturers, financiers/lessors, oil companies, pilots and executives but nothing left for the shareholders. As optimistic as I am for KQ and its newer fleet, I Know that operating and financing costs will go up exponentially, offsetting increase in revenues and savings in maintenance. Avoid generalizations and blanket statements, there are airlines out there making money for its shareholders. You cant say that for airlines such as Singapore airlines Last year Delta Airlines paid quarterly dividends and did some share buy back, you know how that can affect the price. Tho they last did it in 2003. US Airlines has been profitable for some time and bought/merged with AA. Southwest has been giving its shareholders dividends every quarter but their plus has been their business strategy. Hedging. With Oil prices going down , KQ would get a loss if they locked down a high price. But i have no idea how that balances out with a strong Dollar. A List of Airlines that have crash landed! Comeon @Sparky i thought you're more intelligent than that. In every industry, all the companies that dont adapt and change with the environment DIE. It doesnt matter if its in banking or manufacturing. @murchr in the airline industry failure is the rule rather than the exception. lets talk facts, shall we... The airline industry is characterized by: 1. High barriers to entry because of capital costs and regulations. 2. Low profit margins. 3. High fixed costs for fuel, personnel, debt service and lease rentals. 4. Highly competitive, with constant price wars and ticket discounting. Most are highly subsidized national assets. Our beloved pride of Africa's (one of the best performing and managed airlines in the world) revenues for the last 3 yrs combined was KShs 311B but only KShs 1.6B reached the shareholders! Putting that money in T Bills would have earned you at least KShs 30B. IMO, compared with other investments, project mawingu is just creating a bigger giant with a softer under belly. Now @murchr which of the above do you dispute? Give reasons. I am no fan of Airline Stocks [I learnt the hard way and I should have listened to Warren Buffett]... BTW, Revenues are NOT assets. So when you say put the money in T-Bills to earn 30bn over 3 years... that is inaccurate. Unless, there is something I missed. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,053 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:maka wrote:obiero wrote:6th dreamliner lands tomorrow :) 53 aircraft and counting.. Ethiopian & SA are finally about to meet their match. No more marketing competition based on young fleet, onboard entertainment and flat beds Today landed at 1040.... New young fleet diminishing network... And diminishing returns for shareholders if these planes are flying empty! Did you read that the plane that landed at Mombasa Airport [short of fuel] which had only 38 passengers? The plane (please check the facts) could accommodate 116 pax but had only 38. That's about 35% full. And chances are most of the pax were economy pax. Go figure. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,053 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:Gordon Gekko wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:obiero wrote:binadamu yawa. ptho. people forget KQ has been consistently making profit for more than 30 years. usione simba amenyeshewa ukadhani ni paka Where did you get your data from? KQ was 100% gov't owned until the early 90s [Speedwing Consulting brought in KLM] until it was restructured. Please provide us with the data for the past 30 years to enable us buy into your theory. Were these the days of VC10, Fokker 27 and Boeing 707 strong KQ profit history And there's no information about profitability for the last 30 years. @Obiero please back up your assertions with facts. 2014 - 30 = 1984. So where are the profit numbers [you said " people forget KQ has been consistently making profit for more than 30 years"] since 1984? From the wikipedia article @obiero posted " In the fiscal year 1993 to 1994, the airline produced its first profit since the start of commercialization." So again I ask @obiero to back up his assertions with facts. @obiero said " people forget KQ has been consistently making profit for more than 30 years" ... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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maka wrote:obiero wrote:Gordon Gekko wrote:@obiero, @maka something's happening at JKIA with a KQ plane, Kenya Red Cross rushing there, what's happening? @GG nothin wrong with any KQ plane at JKIA.. as far as I can gather There was a plane from Delhi which had an issue, media (Citizen) is all over the place claiming it kwishad mafuta far from the truth...something about a fuel cross feed valve popping...How many pax did the plane have again...38...A plane meant to carry 116. In most cases, the flight to destination usually is full but from destination...the passangers are fewer depending on variables. You may find that this plane made more from the cargo that it had in the underbelly. Ndege si matatu ati lazima ijae stage. You should see the planes from China, the cargo in the plane covers for the seats that are empty. Those who've flown BA from LHR to several states in the US will attest to this. That said, its not wise for anyone to invest in a stock where they have no clue on how the business makes money. You will live you life cursing or praying 24/7/365 "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,053 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:maka wrote:obiero wrote:Gordon Gekko wrote:@obiero, @maka something's happening at JKIA with a KQ plane, Kenya Red Cross rushing there, what's happening? @GG nothin wrong with any KQ plane at JKIA.. as far as I can gather There was a plane from Delhi which had an issue, media (Citizen) is all over the place claiming it kwishad mafuta far from the truth...something about a fuel cross feed valve popping...How many pax did the plane have again...38...A plane meant to carry 116. In most cases, the flight to destination usually is full but from destination...the passangers are fewer depending on variables. You may find that this plane made more from the cargo that it had in the underbelly. Ndege si matatu ati lazima ijae stage. You should see the planes from China, the cargo in the plane covers for the seats that are empty. Those who've flown BA from LHR to several states in the US will attest to this. That said, its not wise for anyone to invest in a stock where they have no clue on how the business makes money. You will live you life cursing or praying 24/7/365 Cargo from the East is big business and one of the reasons why Wide-bodies are used on those flights. Let's hope there was plenty of cargo in the hold! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,053 Location: Nairobi
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Michael ... Is this you? http://www.theafricarepo...east-african-skies.html Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/12/2014 Posts: 36
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VituVingiSana wrote:murchr wrote:maka wrote:obiero wrote:Gordon Gekko wrote:@obiero, @maka something's happening at JKIA with a KQ plane, Kenya Red Cross rushing there, what's happening? @GG nothin wrong with any KQ plane at JKIA.. as far as I can gather There was a plane from Delhi which had an issue, media (Citizen) is all over the place claiming it kwishad mafuta far from the truth...something about a fuel cross feed valve popping...How many pax did the plane have again...38...A plane meant to carry 116. In most cases, the flight to destination usually is full but from destination...the passangers are fewer depending on variables. You may find that this plane made more from the cargo that it had in the underbelly. Ndege si matatu ati lazima ijae stage. You should see the planes from China, the cargo in the plane covers for the seats that are empty. Those who've flown BA from LHR to several states in the US will attest to this. That said, its not wise for anyone to invest in a stock where they have no clue on how the business makes money. You will live you life cursing or praying 24/7/365 Cargo from the East is big business and one of the reasons why Wide-bodies are used on those flights. Let's hope there was plenty of cargo in the hold! Whichever way you spin it, this was a bad flight. 35% load is not good. This is a narrow body aircraft, with max 4 ton hold capacity, minus the bags it is kidogo sana, unless they were ferrying diamonds, again there is nothing in Dehli to import. This is on the back of a Diwali festivity, so fight shd be choka blocked. On top of this it is diverted, so crew rotation, passenger compensation ( for misconnection and inconvenience), aircraft repairs, down time coz it cannot be used for the next leg, embarrassment, parking costs, leaking fuel en route etc. Even if you say it went full, the return leg definitely cleaned out any gains The great positive side is that lives were saved. It’s what you learn after you think you know it all that counts.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:sparkly wrote:murchr wrote:sparkly wrote:murchr wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:the first of five 737 800 is on its way to the motherland.. when the inevitable profit turnaround comes soon, most wazuans will be left wondering.. The airline business makes money for everyone else except the shareholder. Money for the plane manufacturers, financiers/lessors, oil companies, pilots and executives but nothing left for the shareholders. As optimistic as I am for KQ and its newer fleet, I Know that operating and financing costs will go up exponentially, offsetting increase in revenues and savings in maintenance. Avoid generalizations and blanket statements, there are airlines out there making money for its shareholders. You cant say that for airlines such as Singapore airlines Last year Delta Airlines paid quarterly dividends and did some share buy back, you know how that can affect the price. Tho they last did it in 2003. US Airlines has been profitable for some time and bought/merged with AA. Southwest has been giving its shareholders dividends every quarter but their plus has been their business strategy. Hedging. With Oil prices going down , KQ would get a loss if they locked down a high price. But i have no idea how that balances out with a strong Dollar. A List of Airlines that have crash landed! Comeon @Sparky i thought you're more intelligent than that. In every industry, all the companies that dont adapt and change with the environment DIE. It doesnt matter if its in banking or manufacturing. @murchr in the airline industry failure is the rule rather than the exception. lets talk facts, shall we... The airline industry is characterized by: 1. High barriers to entry because of capital costs and regulations. 2. Low profit margins. 3. High fixed costs for fuel, personnel, debt service and lease rentals. 4. Highly competitive, with constant price wars and ticket discounting. Most are highly subsidized national assets. Our beloved pride of Africa's (one of the best performing and managed airlines in the world) revenues for the last 3 yrs combined was KShs 311B but only KShs 1.6B reached the shareholders! Putting that money in T Bills would have earned you at least KShs 30B. IMO, compared with other investments, project mawingu is just creating a bigger giant with a softer under belly. Now @murchr which of the above do you dispute? Give reasons. I am no fan of Airline Stocks [I learnt the hard way and I should have listened to Warren Buffett]... BTW, Revenues are NOT assets. So when you say put the money in T-Bills to earn 30bn over 3 years... that is inaccurate. Unless, there is something I missed. @VVS I stand corrected. The average shareholders equity was KShs 28B so for three years you would expect around KShs 8.4B return on govt paper. Add the massive gearing of 90% on average, that should give at least a 10B return. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,475 Location: nairobi
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this is sweet music to KQ shareholders tax refund
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
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