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Thomas Sankara
famooz
#31 Posted : Friday, October 17, 2014 11:02:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,047
[quote=jaggernaut]
Yaani you people can support a guy who who took power via a coup, banned political parties and trade unions, and nationalized natural resources. That was another tin pot communist dictator in the making. Good that they took him out early enough. Reminds me of Le General Mobutu Sese Seko Kuku wa Nzambanga of Zaire. Sad.

[/quote

famooz
#32 Posted : Friday, October 17, 2014 11:13:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,047
jaggernaut wrote:
Yaani you people can support a guy who who took power via a coup, banned political parties and trade unions, and nationalized natural resources. That was another tin pot communist dictator in the making. Good that they took him out early enough. Reminds me of Le General Mobutu Sese Seko Kuku wa Nzambanga of Zaire. Sad.



So is capitalism better? What good have political parties brought us?As we all now know, it matters not which party is in power ,people will EAT. Those natural resources you mention are the cause of civil wars in bmany countries in Africa; benefiting the very people who breath democracy and human rights down our necks.Going by actions or inaction of powerful countries, we also know that they have no qualms supporting dictators as long it serves their interests...... and the lines of what constitutes good governance- policies ,democracy etc get blurred depending on interests

I can't demonize Sankara, he goes down in the annals of history as a man who believed ,took on challenge and had great successes.....
kaka2za
#33 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 12:31:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
butterflyke wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Alba wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Sankara was exceptional but is DEAD.
When you die it is all over.Nice guy poor politician.
Compaore ,bad guy ,alive and still ruling.


Are you suggesting that people should be forgotten once they are dead? People who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Based on your logic I suppose you think history is a useless subject?


No Sir. The crux of my argument is that being a good guy is useless if hastens your liquidation. Sankara was a good guy who trusted everybody and expected them to see things in black n white.
I love history because it teaches me never to trust my friends especially those who seem to be indispensable.
There is no gain in being exceptional but dead.


there are many who were 'ordinary' and are dead.....

Name a few dim wits who got into power and were dead within 4 years.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
masukuma
#34 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 7:15:20 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
people miss the point when it comes to parties, democracy e.t.c. they are means to an end. sisi hapa we are so focused on the means to care about the end.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#35 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 7:33:02 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
people miss the point when it comes to parties, democracy e.t.c. they are means to an end. sisi hapa we are so focused on the means to care about the end.


To what end are democracy, parties and the like? Means and ends are distortions of 'reality'.
tycho
#36 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:05:11 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
Alba wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Sankara was exceptional but is DEAD.
When you die it is all over.Nice guy poor politician.
Compaore ,bad guy ,alive and still ruling.


Are you suggesting that people should be forgotten once they are dead? People who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Based on your logic I suppose you think history is a useless subject?


No Sir. The crux of my argument is that being a good guy is useless if hastens your liquidation. Sankara was a good guy who trusted everybody and expected them to see things in black n white.
I love history because it teaches me never to trust my friends especially those who seem to be indispensable.
There is no gain in being exceptional but dead.


There's nothing like life, or death. History is a mask, the masks keep on changing. So there are no lessons to learn from history.
masukuma
#37 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:53:33 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
people miss the point when it comes to parties, democracy e.t.c. they are means to an end. sisi hapa we are so focused on the means to care about the end.


To what end are democracy, parties and the like? Means and ends are distortions of 'reality'.

they are all attempts at getting at a better life. better healthcare so that us as sentient beings can get the most out of our lives. better food security. freedom to be whomever you want to be amoungst other things. that is our aspiration.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Alba
#38 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 4:16:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
kaka2za wrote:
Alba wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Sankara was exceptional but is DEAD.
When you die it is all over.Nice guy poor politician.
Compaore ,bad guy ,alive and still ruling.


Are you suggesting that people should be forgotten once they are dead? People who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Based on your logic I suppose you think history is a useless subject?


No Sir. The crux of my argument is that being a good guy is useless if hastens your liquidation. Sankara was a good guy who trusted everybody and expected them to see things in black n white.
I love history because it teaches me never to trust my friends especially those who seem to be indispensable.
There is no gain in being exceptional but dead.


You claim you like history. Clearly you have learned the wrong lessons from history. Your viewpoint is shallow and myopic.

Throughout history there have been people who fought for human rights. Their lives ended early but they left a legacy of making life better for the next generation: People like Martin Luther King, Biko, Che, Cabral, and Malcolm X who both died young, died for what they believed. But they made life better for the next generation.

In Kenya we have people like Muliro, Rubia, Matiba, Raila Odinga, Shikuku etc who sacrificed large portions of their lives to fight for democracy. They paid with detentions, severe beatings and sometimes death. But Kenyans today are benefiting from their actions. Some of you haven't the slightest clue how it was to live in a single party dictatorship where anyone who criticized the government was arrested and often never seen again. And of course there is the generation that fought for independence.

Sankara too left a legacy. He showed Burkinabes and west Africans the right way. For this reason he is revered especially in West Africa. Today West Africa is a much better place than it was in the 1980s in part because of Sankara's legacy. His life was not wasted as Kaka2 is claiming.

For this reason we should not be looking down our nose and people who sacrificed themselves for the benefit of others. Its amazing that Kaka2 is benefiting from the sacrifices of those who came before him and he yet he looks down on them.

And there is no evidence that he trusted everyone like you claim. Where did you get that from ?
kaka2za
#39 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 7:19:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
Alba wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Alba wrote:
[quote=kaka2za]Sankara was exceptional but is DEAD.
When you die it is all over.Nice guy poor politician.
Compaore ,bad guy ,alive and still ruling.


Are you suggesting that people should be forgotten once they are dead? People who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Based on your logic I suppose you think history is a useless subject?


No Sir. The crux of my argument is that being a good guy is useless if hastens your liquidation. Sankara was a good guy who trusted everybody and expected them to see things in black n white.
I love history because it teaches me never to trust my friends especially those who seem to be indispensable.
There is no gain in being exceptional but dead.


You claim you like history. Clearly you have learned the wrong lessons from history. Your viewpoint is shallow and myopic.

Throughout history there have been people who fought for human rights. Their lives ended early but they left a legacy of making life better for the next generation: People like Martin Luther King, Biko, Che, Cabral, and Malcolm X who both died young, died for what they believed. But they made life better for the next generation.

In Kenya we have people like Muliro, Rubia, Matiba, Raila Odinga, Shikuku etc who sacrificed large portions of their lives to fight for democracy. They paid with detentions, severe beatings and sometimes death. But Kenyans today are benefiting from their actions. Some of you haven't the slightest clue how it was to live in a single party dictatorship where anyone who criticized the government was arrested and often never seen again. And of course there is the generation that fought for independence.

Sankara too left a legacy. He showed Burkinabes and west Africans the right way. For this reason he is revered especially in West Africa. Today West Africa is a much better place than it was in the 1980s in part because of Sankara's legacy. His life was not wasted as Kaka2 is claiming.

For this reason we should not be looking down our nose and people who sacrificed themselves for the benefit of others. Its amazing that Kaka2 is benefiting from the sacrifices of those who came before him and he yet he looks down on them.

And there is no evidence that he trusted everyone like you claim. Where did you get that from ?
[/quote


He trusted Compaore. I respect activists,in fact I have been in the trenches myself
Sankara was not an activist, he was the President. With more objectivism he would have held longer and Burkinabes would be a happier lot.
None of the names you have mentioned had real power like Sankara.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
tycho
#40 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:50:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
people miss the point when it comes to parties, democracy e.t.c. they are means to an end. sisi hapa we are so focused on the means to care about the end.


To what end are democracy, parties and the like? Means and ends are distortions of 'reality'.

they are all attempts at getting at a better life. better healthcare so that us as sentient beings can get the most out of our lives. better food security. freedom to be whomever you want to be amoungst other things. that is our aspiration.


I think that's a difficult position to defend. Let's start here, how can we know that a social condition can actually get better?
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