Charley,
I wish more people in Kenya would be able to read your commentary,and reflect on your comments,classic material. The arguments i have seen from others are also of a very high standard,there are strong minds here.

Njung'e and Fundaah,
Comparing the rich and poor countries on a basis of population density and proceeding to justify unchecked birth amongst the poor is extremely defective reasoning. This is like comparing a rich family living on a one acre plot in Nairobi with seven children to a poor farmer on two acres in Turkana with five children.

The question is whether the poor in some cases such as this need to act more responsibly. There are several cases of people rising out of poverty,out of slums,i will bet that individual responsible life choices with issues such as education,child bearing,ethics e.t.c have a more significant outcome on poverty especially in urban areas than serekali doing i don't know what.

ODM

@fundah - Poor use of stats. As I said,Kenya does NOT have as much arable land. Italy has far more arable land (& longer coastline) than Kenya. And Kenyans are NOT as smart as Jews... ___* Face it... the Jews are brilliant. So many Nobel Prize winners including Einstein. They can squeeze water from a stone. I admire them for their smarts.

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB

Italy's economy is far more diversified... You can't compare the rich & poor using population densities. _____* Natural Selection & normal 'cycles' will kill off excess populations in famine stricken (but densely populated) areas. By 'kill off' I mean deaths as well as migration. _____** The Irish in hama'd due to lack of warus from Ireland to the USA... The population of Ireland DROPPED due to deaths & massive emigration.

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB

@fundah - Blaming colonials is a load of BS. Big time BS. I can bet that NO african country can do in the next 100 years what Israel has done in the past 50 years. Kenya is a prime example.
____* Blaming 'colonialists' is easy but just goes to hide our deficiencies. The Israelis left a thriving farm in Ukambani,in 5 years... kenyans ran it down. There was a news story on this. An Israeli researcher was in tears when he saw what kenyans had done to the farm. Yaani... from an INCOME-GENERATING farm to ZERO... Ngai!

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB

@ Manythings,

Either you misunderstood me or you were referring to someone else.

My intention was to challenge anyone who has heard of famine or Kenyan style (recurrent) style of hunger in Italy. And the usual trick is for people to say that even if it occurred,the media wouldn't report it. That's why I said I been there. If you had understood this and still went ahead to ask,then I need to do another thesis on the question.

But in laywoman’s terms,Italy does not experience hunger. The last hungers talked of in Italy (Roman Empire) were in the Q1 of 17th century and all coincided with wars.

In Africa,projection by the Ghana based Institute for Natural Resources,indicate that by 2025,this continent will be able to feed only 25% of it's population if the current trends (natural resource,destruction,population growth,corruption,mismanagement of food resources e.t.c) persist. Put Kenya there. Doesn't it seem like that projection is true?



The location of WFP and FAO HQs in Roma says a lot about the country’s food. Don't draw parallels with UNEP and UN-HABITAT in Nairobi,T.I.A!





We tenda wema kisha wende zako. Usinipe macho ya kutarajia shukrani!!!

The debate has taken a commendable turn with introspection taking root and acceptance that we have performed way below par. Pointless blaming colonialists most of us never saw. And anyway,their sin was simply gathering resources for their motherland and people,their own national self interest and wealth. Our forefathers never went out to colonise and gather for their people and their country - were they unable or unwilling? I commend those colonialists for they made their lands great using the resources of 'outsiders'. Here we make ourselves (the person ourselves rather than the nation ourselves) wealthy at the expense of our own people and Nation!!

On population - I have alarmingly noticed that even elites are having more children than in the recent past. I have no clue why this new phenomenon - the era of two is gone and now three seems the minimum. Cannot hazard a guess as to why. A truance is that no Nation on earth ever developed on the back of an exponentially growing populace; and definitely not one stratified with a huge dependent population at the base - that begs the question - does the government spend on essential services needed by this dependent bloated population or does it spend on development ? There is an opportunity cost.

Finally resources in Africa (except in exceptional cases) are a curse; productive land,oil,minerals,tropical rain forests. They are a source of vicious conflict - mismanaged by those in government for personal gain - generating National poverty. In other parts of the world they are an asset reponsibly managed by the government for the entire populace - generatinbg National wealth.

I must have misunderstood... As in media in Europe not reporting famines... I do NOT believe Western Europe has seen famine/hunger like we see every 2-3 years in Africa... since the 2nd World War...

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB