Alphdoti,

Sometimes, like now, you have sparkles of sense but other times (most times) you are just so annoying.

Yes, how they have managed to shaft the christian world is incredible.

They were (and still are) looking forward to a temporal kingdom here on earth. The last instruction to the physical jews from Jesus was when they see the Roman army approaching Jerusalem they were to flee to the mountains. There is no mention of any return to that particular Jerusalem or those lands (in the middle east) thereafter up to the end.

You can, nay, you should have it. And all the surrounding lands. Its time passed and people are in a new dispensation.

Someone mentioned the Khazars somewhere.

yes i did! but here is a fact that we should all embrace - LAND IS A RESOURCE NOT PROPERTY!

Where did you get this from??
Tuwachage hullucinations saa zingine!

Talking about hypocrisy - in my considered opinion, that's your 2nd name.
Hata hivyo, mi sinaga ubaya.

Masukuma,

Now you see what you have done?

Now you see why I was asking what you are saying? Now you see the impact of careless statements?

You make the work of disputing Alphdoti harder - and agreeing with him easier.

I am with Israel, but open to new info.

Most sane people in the world, regardless of religion will agree with Israel – all considered. Unfortunately most Muslims by default support the Palestines as they see such matters in only one dimension!

If anybody here, can convince me with facts and logical reasoning as to why the Israelis are on the wrong and the Hamas are doing the right thing, I am ready to review my position.

I for one do not understand why Hamas turned down the cease fire proposal from Egypt!

Neither do I understand why Hamas or anybody would expect Israel not to seek to crash anybody firing missiles their way repeatedly!

Hiding among the general populace and launching the missiles from there is very reckless of Hamas. Its spurious for Hamas to then start crying wolf, when the inevitable happens.

Akin to Criminals hiding in a Church/Mosque after committing a crime and expecting the police to halt their pursuit!

Palestine has been controlled by numerous different peoples, including the:
Ancient Egyptians,
Canaanites,
Philistines,
Tjekker,
Ancient Israelites,
Assyrians,
Babylonians,
Persians,
Ancient Greeks,
Romans,
Byzantines,
the Muslims,
the Crusaders,
Ayyubids,
Mameluks,
Ottomans,
the British,
The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (1948–1967, on the "West Bank") and Egyptian Republic (in Gaza),
and modern Israelis and Palestinians.


Following World War 1, British administration were colonizing parts of the conquered Ottoman empire. The growing Jewish Question in Europe, characterized by refugee-like antisemitisim, brought about a need for resettlement or 'shipping them back home' from as early as 1917.

As was done in Africa and other parts of the world, a partition was proposed in Palestine, where 608,000 Jews lived (amidst 1.2m Arabs) with most of the wealth coming from the Jewish community. The land allocated to the Arab State consisted of all of the highlands, plus one-third of the coast line. The bulk of the proposed Jewish State's territory, however, consisted of the Negev Desert and sole access to the Red Sea.

The partition was mandated by the UN General Assembly in 1947. Then the wars began...

"The Egyptian ceasefire proposal of July 15 met Israel's needs but utterly failed to meet the needs of the people of Gaza. Israel was consulted before the proposal was announced; Hamas was not. Hamas found out about the one-sided proposal from the media, not through diplomatic channels."

From this article: http://m.aljazeera.com/story/20147191462612864

Then there is this article here that explains Israeli reasoning: http://m.aljazeera.com/story/2014717154428830848

Both articles might be a bit biased.

Fair insights @poundfoolish. To add further @Zanze's post casts Hamas in very negative light. Whose liberation are they fighting for through human shielding? Are they using their own children?

On the other side, living in Tel Aviv, you also have to become pretty great at rocket dodging

Then the wars began...
In 1947 the UN General Assembly approved for the partition of Palestine with 33 votes in favour versus 13 against (all 10 Arab states). Arab States vowed... "We will sweep them [the Jews] into the sea. We shall eradicate Zionism"

• So Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq invaded Israel on 15-May-1948
• Next round, Egypt triggered the Suez Crisis against Israel on 29-Oct-1956
• Egypt, Jorday, Syria, Iraq led the Six Day war of 05-Jun-1967 with a truly embarrasing outcome
• Aggrieved Egypt, Syria crossed the Suez canal for the Yom Kippur war from 6-Oct-1973 almost provoking a World War leading to Camp David Accords
• Palestinians began the First Intifada in Dec 1987, Second Intifada in Sep 2000 etc etc.

In short @poundfoolish, Arabs have frequently been the aggressors. Israel learnt to defend itself with deadly force. There are no saints in the equation.

Hamas tactics exact high toll in Israeli ground thrust - Reuters Article

"Using tunnels, mines, booby traps and snipers, Hamas fighters have inflicted record casualties on Israeli troops waging an offensive in the Gaza Strip, applying years of training in urban warfare with a new tactical acumen and suicidal resolve.

The Israelis say weapons and know-how supplied by Iran and its Lebanese ally Hezbollah make Hamas a more formidable foe.

Four days after Israel launched a withering ground assault on the Palestinian Islamist militants in their stronghold of Shejaia following intensive air strikes, the army still does not have complete control of the area.

Smoke from shelled homes and the buzz of Israeli drones clog the sky above the wrecked district on Gaza's eastern border.

The thud of a buried explosive aimed at a troop carrier is met with an hour-long rain of Israeli artillery fire that shakes the width of the coastal strip, sending the deafening sound bouncing off buildings as far as the shore.

Exploiting a vast network of secret tunnels to snipe at enemy troops and blast their vehicles even inside Israel, Hamas has killed 32 Israeli soldiers -- almost three times as many as in the last major ground clashes in a 2008-9 conflict.

"The al-Qassam brigades continue to give repeated surprises, and every day the holy warriors arise from where the (Israeli) occupation could not foresee," the group said last week.

"They fight... face to face with the enemy in retaliation for the blood of the martyrs that the occupier spills daily."

The action has lived up to the fierce rhetoric.

Hamas has far outstripped fellow militants in Islamic Jihad and other groups in sending drones, scuba commandos and tunnel raiders to take the fight into Israel.

In one such infiltration, Hamas fighters emerged wearing full Israeli uniform, but were let down by one key detail - they were carrying Kalashnikov rifles, not standard issue M16s or Tavor assault rifles.

In the most deadly incident for Israel yet, on the first day of its incursion to begin destroying the tunnels on Sunday, Hamas says its fighters watched as an enemy armored personnel carrier lurched into a web of booby traps they had laid.

"Our holy warriors detonated the minefield with such force that (the carrier) was destroyed. They advanced on it, opened its doors and finished off all left inside," the group said.

Israel offered a different account, saying the vehicle was part of a convoy and was hit my multiple anti-tank missiles.

Israel said six soldiers were killed, while another thought to have been in the vehicle is missing, believed dead. Hamas said it captured him but has not released his picture.

The Israeli military acknowledges Hamas' increased skill.

"They have undergone extensive training, they are well supplied, well motivated and disciplined. We have met a more formidable enemy on the battlefield," said Israeli military spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Peter Lerner. Israel says it has so far killed more than 200 Palestinian fighters.

"We are not surprised about it because we knew that they were preparing for this battle. They didn't just invest in the tunnels for the last two or three years," he added.

"UNDERGROUND GAZA"

Speaking off the record, another army official said: "They have thrown everything at us. Missiles, ambushes, even (bomb-laden) donkeys and dogs. It's proving a real challenge ... We have to break their motivation, show them it is not worth it.

"We hope that if we break Shejaia, then that will show them our determination. That is a real command center for them... What is remarkable is that in the past eight years they have basically built an underground Gaza. It's astonishing," he said.

Confined in the crowded sandy coast enclave of 1.8 million, where poverty and unemployment hover around 40 percent, weary Gazans say they hope the battle will break the blockade that Israel and Egypt impose on them. They have very little to lose.

Hamas leaders hope to achieve that goal through the prowess of their men at the front, trained to inflict casualties and grab soldiers to gain political leverage.

Morale was high and Hamas fighters were preparing for a fight during a visit by Reuters in April to a training camp of its military wing on a vast sandy expanse in northern Gaza.

Kitted up in full Israeli battle gear, young cadets sat in classrooms taking notes on lessons in combat tactics.

They showed off maneuvers where they simulated raining down mortars on mock-up tanks, on which two groups of fighters then pounced from nearby tunnels, with one combatant hoisting over his shoulder a limp volunteer posing as an Israeli soldier.

NOT A HUGE LOSS

In addition to increasing the range and payload of more than 1,000 mostly homemade rockets it has hurled at Israel in two weeks, Hamas has stepped up its weapons procurement.

"Hamas leaders have tried to say through their statements that everything Israel's been hit with so far was completely and purely Gaza-made. (But) Hamas did not deny benefiting from foreign imports," said Gaza analyst Adnan Abu Amer.

The Islamist movement is unlikely to be deterred by the losses its has suffered at the hands of a stronger enemy.

"There are conflicting reports about Hamas's losses in terms of fighters. Since Israel has claimed Hamas's armed wing numbers 20,000 men, the martyrdom of 60 or 70 can not be described as a huge loss," Abu Amer said.

Videos distributed by al-Qassam's media arm appear to show the strength of the group's arsenal.

"The demonstrated use of anti-tank guided missiles against small IDF units on foot, rather than against armored vehicles, shows a clear intent to simply inflict casualties and a recognition of the (Israeli army's) superior armor defense," said Charles Lister, a visiting fellow at the Brookings Center in Doha told Reuters.

A senior Israeli intelligence official briefing foreign reporters on Wednesday said "radical axis" countries - Iran, Syria or Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon - had provided Hamas with a new generation of ground weapons.

He cited the Russian-made cornet and the shoulder-fired RPG-29 which is "more of a rocket than a missile. You can use it in an urban area when you have to fight against very close forces. This is something you don't make by yourself."

CEASEFIRE?

In 22-days of fighting during a 2008-9 conflict, Hamas and other militant groups largely melted away, allowing Israeli tanks to approach the outskirts of Gaza City.

The militants killed just six soldiers then, and two more in an eight-day round of battle in 2012, which did not escalate into an Israeli ground incursion.

Israel's Lerner cited outside aid for their new strength.

"(They were trained) by Iran. Mostly Iran. It is the school of Iran. It is the thought process of Iran. It is Iran with Hezbollah. It is the same type of tactics that we have seen."

Israel's loss of 12 soldiers on Sunday was the largest single-day toll since its forces pushed into South Lebanon in an attempt to dislodge Hezbollah militants there in 2006.

The Israeli intelligence officer said Syria, Iran and Hezbollah could have taught Hamas new tactics over the Internet.

Nobody from the Israeli side expected an easy push into Gaza, Israeli military affairs analyst Ehud Yaari told Reuters, but its stated aim of destroying the tunnels remains difficult.

"It's very painful, but I don't think anybody assumed that it could be a 'no casualties' operation ... It seems they've been able to systematically uncover more and more tunnels, with the caveat that I'm not sure the Israelis are prepared to sustain the damage to uncover many more," he said.

Subterranean warfare may be Hamas's most potent innovation. After spending years and possibly hundreds of millions of dollars on building the network, Hamas may be keen to preserve some of its tunnels by stopping the fighting soon.

"They're popping up more and more from underground to try and hit something in hopes that a ceasefire will be established as soon as possible," Yaari said.

Abu Amer, the Gaza analyst, believes both sides are smarting and the military gains may encourage Hamas toward a ceasefire.

"Hamas realizes that the time factor is painful for both sides. Hamas has made achievements and my guess that neither Hamas nor Israel are willing today to prolong the confrontation," he said. "