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Is PM still a reformer?
Nandwa
#11 Posted : Monday, December 14, 2009 7:32:24 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049
@Mbalatya

Welcome

This thread must have irked you.

I have never promised anybody, least of all the public that I will be championing reforms.
Those we put in office on such promise owe it to us.
Infact RAO suprised me on the renegade ministers issue.

He asked them, more than once to leave as government would run as usual.
Later while in Mombasa he seemed undecided over the matter!
Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
Mbalatya
#12 Posted : Monday, December 14, 2009 9:32:42 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/13/2009
Posts: 33
Location: Nairobi
Thank you, Thank you ladies and gentlemen

Aemathenge and the Nandwas of this world...I do not hold brief for any politician, I do hav my ambitions as well, u see we must admit that one problem of this nation among many more is extremism, we have Railamanias on one side (u just fell shot of calling me one), and Railaphobics on the other side...its one of the reasons why we had such personalised heated and hatred-filled campaigns in the runup to 2007. Any defender of RAO,whether on principle or not is classified by kenyans like you as a RAOmania, and any critic as the opposite. Cud we just be honest enough to acknowledge the fact that independent minded kenyans, (I think I am one of them, I believe you r too) can also voice their views concerning some issues without ostensibly falling in either category.
I do like your definition of a reformer, especially the part of urging reform, that definition runs in tandem with the traits exhibited by the PM lately..tell me of a politician who has put his own political career, risked losing the bedrock of his support, all in the name of saving a nations livelihood!!, tell me just one. Taking back what was stolen, attempting to reverse the losses caused by poor and tribalistic governance. He certainly isnt an angel, he isnt perfect, bt he is trying given the circumstances
A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What one can be, one must be, and same goes for a fool.
VituVingiSana
#13 Posted : Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:57:54 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,371
Location: Nairobi
RAO has regained my respect with his stand on Mau Forest. Even if he loses the election coz of Mau, I salute him.

Make this non-partisan... have Michuki in charge of Mau 100%... Between RAO & Michuki... we can clear out the mbuta!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
aemathenge
#14 Posted : Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:01:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
@Mbalatya, you actually worship RAO.

Nay. You are inclined to Railamania as you well put it. You are even willing to be nasty to the Mahegoats and the Nandwas of this world.

I do not take offense however. You bring vital passion to Wazua and I love that. Keep it up and we are going to have such fun together.

So. Is PM still a reformer?
Ngalaka
#15 Posted : Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:06:45 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
@Vitu vingi

Sure?

For him to regain your confidence he must have had lost it. when and for what reason did he lose it.

Those reasons for which he lost your support,- have they ceased to be valid or has he undone, or done what you thought he he ought to do?

I support RAO on Mau, just as i support all the other Govt officers acting in concert with him - Michuki, Wekesa and Kibaki the ultimate force - commander in chief of forces whose arrival in Mau caused the squaters to start packing, fully aware of the events of 2005 when Kimunya focefully ejected them.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Nandwa
#16 Posted : Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:15:06 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049
@Mbalatya

You shift the issues I raise initially!

I enumerated a few in the main thread.
For your benefit, I put some here below:

-What is RAO’s current position on punishing PEV criminals?
-Didn’t he renege on his promise to support Imanyara motion which would have seen PEV culprits face the law?
-What was his role in the recent maize scandal?
-What became of the poor man’s Unga that he promised and now conveniently quiet about?
-What is he doing to check current and past corruption in Govt.
-Isn't he always in defence of Kibaki whenever an issue arises?
-Is it true as we learnt from the media that he was bonded not to talk ill of Govt as a precondition for his requests to be considered? This came after the Carpets saga in Mombasa.

The list is long, and that’s why I am left to wonder if PM is still a reformer.

Now, your introducing of such issues as Mau in an attempt to absolve him from any other blame doesn’t really wash.
By commuting ten wrongs and doing one right cannot make us give one a clean bill of health.
In any case I doubt RAO had any inkling that the Mau issue was going to turn out the way it did with respect to the Kalenjin support.
If he knew, I bet he would have re-thought his stance on it.

So tell me is PM still a reformer?

Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
Mbalatya
#17 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 7:51:05 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/13/2009
Posts: 33
Location: Nairobi
Mahegoat....I had no intentions of being nasty, am surprised you construed it as so. Most sincere apologies. I do understand as part of the larger kenya, no wonder that very common and vague understanding and interpretation of Kenyan politics..

Nandwa,

-His position regarding a local tribunal was eclipsed by parliaments failure to adopt the same
-Is it documented that he had promised to support the bill - In any case, previous attempts had failed miserably, a suave politician will read the political mood and evaluate his next move based on that.
-What was his role in the recent maize scandal? Any evidence Nandwa? table it
-What became of the poor man’s Unga that he promised and now conveniently quiet about - Ask the government, not the individual.
-What is he doing to check current and past corruption in Govt. Past corruption includes grabbing of forest land at the MAU, what he is doing, u can see for urself (we must be careful not to see just what we want to see, we must see across the board)
-Isn't he always in defence of Kibaki whenever an issue arises? This is a coalition government, RAO is one of the principals, for it to work there must be cohesion. U could just tell us your expectation concerning this issue
-Is it true as we learnt from the media that he was bonded not to talk ill of Govt as a precondition for his requests to be considered? This came after the Carpets saga in Mombasa. Refer to my reply above.

You seem to be keen on attacking personality, rather than issues.

“Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform.” Mark Twain

"It is the reformer who is anxious for the reform, and not society, from which he should expect nothing better than opposition, abhorrence and mortal persecution” - Mahtma Gandhi
A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What one can be, one must be, and same goes for a fool.
Prof.J.T.Ouma
#18 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:32:05 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2009
Posts: 31
When you speak of reform in terms politico, it would be prudent to consider the most significant qualifier of reform is in simple terms change. This is a managed, sensible, well paced, agreed and above all beneficial change.

A reformer can not claim to be one by making a single grand change even though beneficial (A revolution), or, a few changes, which is ordinary every day reform, e.g. prison reform.

A reformer makes (or attempts to make) several positive changes, meaning a reformer is also one (and will only be one) who finds oneself in an atrocious political/organizational environment. Pursuit of reform and not the outcome, is the true indicator of a reformer, this is because a reformer, who finds himself in an enormously atrocious environment, is bound to fail despite his efforts. It is a step by step effort.

Any genuine Kenyan, if the author’s question “Is PM still a reformer?” is valid, should reflect on the following: - Is Kenya’s political situation degenerate or atrocious? Is therefore room for a reformer available? And most important, is there need for a reformer in Kenya or are we just fine? If yes, who?

So to answer the author’s question, I will ask, what is failing reform in Kenya? Who is blocking reform? Let’s engage in an argumentum a contrario and inquire, if not Raila:-

Who Then Is The Reformer In Kenya?

Is it Imperator Cowardice Kibaki, or is it Divi Filius Peter Kenneth, is it Kalanzo and the triple K? Please tell me who else is clearly engaging in reform? Remember the question of whether a reformer succeeds or fails (as with poor mans maize or shacks to Canaan) is not solely within ones power, the question is: - who is pursuing reform? If you need change, that is your reformer.
Brewer
#19 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:20:20 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
My opinion is that making RAO's issues emotive and personal is wrong. He is a politician (who shaffles his political cards rather well and rapidly) and the PM of the Republic of Kenya and as such a PM is in government that took the responsibility to restore the MAU (in my view a good thing) and equally provide Unga at two different prices (in my view a laughable idea). I have never thought of him as a reformer.
aemathenge
#20 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:52:18 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Alright. The Jury is out on whether PM is still a reformer.

Can I add a twist to the tale?

Hon John Njoroge Michuki has some very prominent changes to the better under his watch. As such I shall term him a successful reformer.

Is PM a successful reformer?
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