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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:simonkabz wrote:That county is now a warzone, just not official. Lets see if anything will change once construction of the three berths commences.
Na hii maneno ya machaba eish! Kwani how hard is it to sort out this mess? I thought it was just a matter of carving out a few more schemes and dividing them to the people? @Simonkabz Mashamba issue is hard because 1) Kenyatta family owns almost half of former coast provience 2) Kenyatta family and few influencial families in Central provience deplaced Kyuk in Central to create productive land for themselve then relocate them to Coast and othr parts of the country 3) Host communities feel. justly or unjustly that the government favored Kyuks and allocated land their forefathers owned before they themselve were displaced. 4) Intergration, it's 50yrs later, these communities should have blend by now, there should be some hybrid tribe, i.e a mix of Kyuk and kales in or Kyuk and coast people. So when they talk about Land, don't expect Uhuru to solve that, unless they return Kyuk's land in Central first which is not going to happen. [disclaimer - I am not speaking for Uhunye] What is our obsession with land? hii kitu ni kama mdomo wa nyoka... meno zimepoint ndani once imeuma hakuna reverse gear! since these things are rather difficult let's start with things that can be implemented. 1. how much land is unadjudicated? can people be given land they are living on? can title deeds be given to people who are living on land? can we start looking at land as a resource rather than property? 2. who says the migration that brought the Nilotes from the north using the nile and the Bantus east and from the south has ended? right now the speed of migration should be accelerated due to infrastructure e.t.c. What normally disappoints me with the people from the coast is that they believe that they can only make a living at the coast! check out wahindi they are everywhere and making money at that! wangejifanya kukaa india... hmmm! @Masukuma You're clearly articulating the problem we have in Kenya and the problem is we don't understand where each one of us is coming from. First, you and I might hold the same point of view in terms of the importance of land because you and I probably have other things more important than land, we have other means, the problem, however, is majority of rural Kenyans don't have anything but memories, illusions and Land they think they should have had. Yes, you and I can dismiss them but they're the one who pick up the pangas and fight so if we want peace we have to meet them where they're, we need to listen to them. Secondly, a large number of Kenyan do not have a fair shot because of how the Kenyan government has been run since independence, only the rich and the connected are elected to politcal offices, get good jobs, are able to achieve they potential, majority of Kenyans don't have a fair shot, give people an opportunity and they'll never think about land. Do you know that there are still people who die of hunger in a country where others fly in choppers? Do you know that in a country where first and second lady have a budget of over 200M, people die in hospital waiting rooms becuase there are no money for beds or drugs? This is how bad the poor are having it and how good the connected has....... I suspect you misunderstood me - my beef is not with @tycho's ilk (the poor people) but rather with Uhunye's ilk (the rich people) that hoard lots and lots of land that could have otherwise become the primary resource for many. However private property is private property... funny thing do you know that CNN's Ted Turner owns more than 2 million acres? I digress! Our solution should be based on reality - you cannot deprive something that they own legally unless it's for 'public good' e.g. roads, mines , schools e.t.c. but you can force them to sell if the land is not being meaningfully used. but since all these are things that are being expected from the political class (laws e.t.c.) we need to do what is in our control i.e. migrate! find yourself a better life elsewhere! Let me state forthrightly - I am not for equality of wealth but rather for equality of opportunity and that is why I advocate for free education at the cost of the tax payer coz and educated populace is good for the public (cc @tycho). So dangling poverty at my face and saying 'poor' people are sleeping hungry will not cut it - this is not a socialist state! Who says that you need to have your own in politics to make it? there is an ethnic group in Kenya that has never had one of it's own in Power, neither as a minister and very few MPs but does not have poor people.... it's not the Kikuyu... nor is it the Kalenjin... ni wahindi! First Ted Turner live in USA a country with an average of 2 cars per a household and average employement of over 93% and household income of apprx $53,000; No one farm for food in USA. Majority of people don't even want to own land because land is not important to their livelihood so let's not compare USA to Kenya. The problem with issue of Land in Kenya is, people with big track of Land did not buy it or atleast they used their influence to obtain it and people with big track of land are one who control decision making on issues of Land; so it's a complicated matter. believe me - we are on the same page on this one. but I am the only one articulating a solution! Our solution does not lie in peasant farming or presidency or politics. it lies in the prudent use of our resources! I am not sure if I have said this here but I will just the same 'Bangladesh supports 170 million people' on a piece of land smaller than Rift Valley. Other than Russia and Ukraine - No European country beats us on 'Land' so let's rethink our use of land and other resources. ps. The Ted Turner thing was not a justification for anything or a parallel to anything but one to just to show you how smart I am ;-) so don't get derailed. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:simonkabz wrote:That county is now a warzone, just not official. Lets see if anything will change once construction of the three berths commences.
Na hii maneno ya machaba eish! Kwani how hard is it to sort out this mess? I thought it was just a matter of carving out a few more schemes and dividing them to the people? @Simonkabz Mashamba issue is hard because 1) Kenyatta family owns almost half of former coast provience 2) Kenyatta family and few influencial families in Central provience deplaced Kyuk in Central to create productive land for themselve then relocate them to Coast and othr parts of the country 3) Host communities feel. justly or unjustly that the government favored Kyuks and allocated land their forefathers owned before they themselve were displaced. 4) Intergration, it's 50yrs later, these communities should have blend by now, there should be some hybrid tribe, i.e a mix of Kyuk and kales in or Kyuk and coast people. So when they talk about Land, don't expect Uhuru to solve that, unless they return Kyuk's land in Central first which is not going to happen. [disclaimer - I am not speaking for Uhunye] What is our obsession with land? hii kitu ni kama mdomo wa nyoka... meno zimepoint ndani once imeuma hakuna reverse gear! since these things are rather difficult let's start with things that can be implemented. 1. how much land is unadjudicated? can people be given land they are living on? can title deeds be given to people who are living on land? can we start looking at land as a resource rather than property? 2. who says the migration that brought the Nilotes from the north using the nile and the Bantus east and from the south has ended? right now the speed of migration should be accelerated due to infrastructure e.t.c. What normally disappoints me with the people from the coast is that they believe that they can only make a living at the coast! check out wahindi they are everywhere and making money at that! wangejifanya kukaa india... hmmm! @Masukuma You're clearly articulating the problem we have in Kenya and the problem is we don't understand where each one of us is coming from. First, you and I might hold the same point of view in terms of the importance of land because you and I probably have other things more important than land, we have other means, the problem, however, is majority of rural Kenyans don't have anything but memories, illusions and Land they think they should have had. Yes, you and I can dismiss them but they're the one who pick up the pangas and fight so if we want peace we have to meet them where they're, we need to listen to them. Secondly, a large number of Kenyan do not have a fair shot because of how the Kenyan government has been run since independence, only the rich and the connected are elected to politcal offices, get good jobs, are able to achieve they potential, majority of Kenyans don't have a fair shot, give people an opportunity and they'll never think about land. Do you know that there are still people who die of hunger in a country where others fly in choppers? Do you know that in a country where first and second lady have a budget of over 200M, people die in hospital waiting rooms becuase there are no money for beds or drugs? This is how bad the poor are having it and how good the connected has....... I suspect you misunderstood me - my beef is not with @tycho's ilk (the poor people) but rather with Uhunye's ilk (the rich people) that hoard lots and lots of land that could have otherwise become the primary resource for many. However private property is private property... funny thing do you know that CNN's Ted Turner owns more than 2 million acres? I digress! Our solution should be based on reality - you cannot deprive something that they own legally unless it's for 'public good' e.g. roads, mines , schools e.t.c. but you can force them to sell if the land is not being meaningfully used. but since all these are things that are being expected from the political class (laws e.t.c.) we need to do what is in our control i.e. migrate! find yourself a better life elsewhere! Let me state forthrightly - I am not for equality of wealth but rather for equality of opportunity and that is why I advocate for free education at the cost of the tax payer coz and educated populace is good for the public (cc @tycho). So dangling poverty at my face and saying 'poor' people are sleeping hungry will not cut it - this is not a socialist state! Who says that you need to have your own in politics to make it? there is an ethnic group in Kenya that has never had one of it's own in Power, neither as a minister and very few MPs but does not have poor people.... it's not the Kikuyu... nor is it the Kalenjin... ni wahindi! First Ted Turner live in USA a country with an average of 2 cars per a household and average employement of over 93% and household income of apprx $53,000; No one farm for food in USA. Majority of people don't even want to own land because land is not important to their livelihood so let's not compare USA to Kenya. The problem with issue of Land in Kenya is, people with big track of Land did not buy it or atleast they used their influence to obtain it and people with big track of land are one who control decision making on issues of Land; so it's a complicated matter. believe me - we are on the same page on this one. but I am the only one articulating a solution! Our solution does not lie in peasant farming or presidency or politics. it lies in the prudent use of our resources! I am not sure if I have said this here but I will just the same 'Bangladesh supports 170 million people' on a piece of land smaller than Rift Valley. Other than Russia and Ukraine - No European country beats us on 'Land' so let's rethink our use of land and other resources. ps. The Ted Turner thing was not a justification for anything or a parallel to anything but one to just to show you how smart I am ;-) so don't get derailed. Unfortunately politics dictated Prudent resource allocation!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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 They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:simonkabz wrote:That county is now a warzone, just not official. Lets see if anything will change once construction of the three berths commences.
Na hii maneno ya machaba eish! Kwani how hard is it to sort out this mess? I thought it was just a matter of carving out a few more schemes and dividing them to the people? @Simonkabz Mashamba issue is hard because 1) Kenyatta family owns almost half of former coast provience 2) Kenyatta family and few influencial families in Central provience deplaced Kyuk in Central to create productive land for themselve then relocate them to Coast and othr parts of the country 3) Host communities feel. justly or unjustly that the government favored Kyuks and allocated land their forefathers owned before they themselve were displaced. 4) Intergration, it's 50yrs later, these communities should have blend by now, there should be some hybrid tribe, i.e a mix of Kyuk and kales in or Kyuk and coast people. So when they talk about Land, don't expect Uhuru to solve that, unless they return Kyuk's land in Central first which is not going to happen. [disclaimer - I am not speaking for Uhunye] What is our obsession with land? hii kitu ni kama mdomo wa nyoka... meno zimepoint ndani once imeuma hakuna reverse gear! since these things are rather difficult let's start with things that can be implemented. 1. how much land is unadjudicated? can people be given land they are living on? can title deeds be given to people who are living on land? can we start looking at land as a resource rather than property? 2. who says the migration that brought the Nilotes from the north using the nile and the Bantus east and from the south has ended? right now the speed of migration should be accelerated due to infrastructure e.t.c. What normally disappoints me with the people from the coast is that they believe that they can only make a living at the coast! check out wahindi they are everywhere and making money at that! wangejifanya kukaa india... hmmm! @Masukuma You're clearly articulating the problem we have in Kenya and the problem is we don't understand where each one of us is coming from. First, you and I might hold the same point of view in terms of the importance of land because you and I probably have other things more important than land, we have other means, the problem, however, is majority of rural Kenyans don't have anything but memories, illusions and Land they think they should have had. Yes, you and I can dismiss them but they're the one who pick up the pangas and fight so if we want peace we have to meet them where they're, we need to listen to them. Secondly, a large number of Kenyan do not have a fair shot because of how the Kenyan government has been run since independence, only the rich and the connected are elected to politcal offices, get good jobs, are able to achieve they potential, majority of Kenyans don't have a fair shot, give people an opportunity and they'll never think about land. Do you know that there are still people who die of hunger in a country where others fly in choppers? Do you know that in a country where first and second lady have a budget of over 200M, people die in hospital waiting rooms becuase there are no money for beds or drugs? This is how bad the poor are having it and how good the connected has....... I suspect you misunderstood me - my beef is not with @tycho's ilk (the poor people) but rather with Uhunye's ilk (the rich people) that hoard lots and lots of land that could have otherwise become the primary resource for many. However private property is private property... funny thing do you know that CNN's Ted Turner owns more than 2 million acres? I digress! Our solution should be based on reality - you cannot deprive something that they own legally unless it's for 'public good' e.g. roads, mines , schools e.t.c. but you can force them to sell if the land is not being meaningfully used. but since all these are things that are being expected from the political class (laws e.t.c.) we need to do what is in our control i.e. migrate! find yourself a better life elsewhere! Let me state forthrightly - I am not for equality of wealth but rather for equality of opportunity and that is why I advocate for free education at the cost of the tax payer coz and educated populace is good for the public (cc @tycho). So dangling poverty at my face and saying 'poor' people are sleeping hungry will not cut it - this is not a socialist state! Who says that you need to have your own in politics to make it? there is an ethnic group in Kenya that has never had one of it's own in Power, neither as a minister and very few MPs but does not have poor people.... it's not the Kikuyu... nor is it the Kalenjin... ni wahindi! First Ted Turner live in USA a country with an average of 2 cars per a household and average employement of over 93% and household income of apprx $53,000; No one farm for food in USA. Majority of people don't even want to own land because land is not important to their livelihood so let's not compare USA to Kenya. The problem with issue of Land in Kenya is, people with big track of Land did not buy it or atleast they used their influence to obtain it and people with big track of land are one who control decision making on issues of Land; so it's a complicated matter. believe me - we are on the same page on this one. but I am the only one articulating a solution! Our solution does not lie in peasant farming or presidency or politics. it lies in the prudent use of our resources! I am not sure if I have said this here but I will just the same 'Bangladesh supports 170 million people' on a piece of land smaller than Rift Valley. Other than Russia and Ukraine - No European country beats us on 'Land' so let's rethink our use of land and other resources. ps. The Ted Turner thing was not a justification for anything or a parallel to anything but one to just to show you how smart I am ;-) so don't get derailed. Unfortunately politics dictated Prudent resource allocation! define: resource! even your brain is a resource! actually your brain is the largest resource! We have many many excuses that 'limit' us from making it big but the truth of the matter is many many people are saying bye to poverty by simply looking around and looking inwardly. I can guarantee you that the only thing a gava can do to 'setup' people is making the environment conducive for business. Wahindi wako na acre ngapi za mashamba? wako na mikono yao kwa tax payers kitty? nope - they just looked around and saw needs and solved those needs. Do you hear wahindi running around saying 'oh our people are not represented in this gava?'.... tuwache ushenzi! politics has been hailed as a panacea to all our illnesses and it has failed to deliver. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:
Masukuma,
All is well and good then. If I may, can I be furnished with practical examples (local or elsewhere) where this approach of yours has "worked" to your satisfaction?
Ati "the person who is being attacked 'does not have it', the people attacking him/her 'have it', the person who 'has it' and is supposed to come to the rescue of the person who is being attacked is not there - suluhisho? give everyone theirs." Surely Masukuma.
How about ensuring the person supposed to come to the rescue of the person being attacked is
(a) well equipped
(b) has morale
(c) and so on?
How is that for suluhisho?
it's suluhisho because no sane person will risk his life for you! Boss your life is not a recital or a statistic for people to ponder in future! Those who say kenyans take the law into their own hands need to know that this happens since "the people who 'have it' and are supposed to protect those who don't 'have it' fail! " reasons - mumeweka ma D huko! Even at best response times are poor!  Every business is encouraged to have a fire extinguisher on the premesis because we know that the fire brigade will come 'when they will come' and the loss is yours not theirs. Kila mtu akipatiwa 'yake' even those people who are having 'law into their own hands' applied on them will THINK TWICE before committing crimes. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Users browsing this topic Guest (11), masukuma, mchawi, washiku Asi! Mbosi Wee! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/4/2011 Posts: 94 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Just a question, isnt it kinda weired that TZ, KE, UG are all attacked by some assailants on the same week? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:masukuma wrote:Rollout wrote:simonkabz wrote:That county is now a warzone, just not official. Lets see if anything will change once construction of the three berths commences.
Na hii maneno ya machaba eish! Kwani how hard is it to sort out this mess? I thought it was just a matter of carving out a few more schemes and dividing them to the people? @Simonkabz Mashamba issue is hard because 1) Kenyatta family owns almost half of former coast provience 2) Kenyatta family and few influencial families in Central provience deplaced Kyuk in Central to create productive land for themselve then relocate them to Coast and othr parts of the country 3) Host communities feel. justly or unjustly that the government favored Kyuks and allocated land their forefathers owned before they themselve were displaced. 4) Intergration, it's 50yrs later, these communities should have blend by now, there should be some hybrid tribe, i.e a mix of Kyuk and kales in or Kyuk and coast people. So when they talk about Land, don't expect Uhuru to solve that, unless they return Kyuk's land in Central first which is not going to happen. [disclaimer - I am not speaking for Uhunye] What is our obsession with land? hii kitu ni kama mdomo wa nyoka... meno zimepoint ndani once imeuma hakuna reverse gear! since these things are rather difficult let's start with things that can be implemented. 1. how much land is unadjudicated? can people be given land they are living on? can title deeds be given to people who are living on land? can we start looking at land as a resource rather than property? 2. who says the migration that brought the Nilotes from the north using the nile and the Bantus east and from the south has ended? right now the speed of migration should be accelerated due to infrastructure e.t.c. What normally disappoints me with the people from the coast is that they believe that they can only make a living at the coast! check out wahindi they are everywhere and making money at that! wangejifanya kukaa india... hmmm! @Masukuma You're clearly articulating the problem we have in Kenya and the problem is we don't understand where each one of us is coming from. First, you and I might hold the same point of view in terms of the importance of land because you and I probably have other things more important than land, we have other means, the problem, however, is majority of rural Kenyans don't have anything but memories, illusions and Land they think they should have had. Yes, you and I can dismiss them but they're the one who pick up the pangas and fight so if we want peace we have to meet them where they're, we need to listen to them. Secondly, a large number of Kenyan do not have a fair shot because of how the Kenyan government has been run since independence, only the rich and the connected are elected to politcal offices, get good jobs, are able to achieve they potential, majority of Kenyans don't have a fair shot, give people an opportunity and they'll never think about land. Do you know that there are still people who die of hunger in a country where others fly in choppers? Do you know that in a country where first and second lady have a budget of over 200M, people die in hospital waiting rooms becuase there are no money for beds or drugs? This is how bad the poor are having it and how good the connected has....... I suspect you misunderstood me - my beef is not with @tycho's ilk (the poor people) but rather with Uhunye's ilk (the rich people) that hoard lots and lots of land that could have otherwise become the primary resource for many. However private property is private property... funny thing do you know that CNN's Ted Turner owns more than 2 million acres? I digress! Our solution should be based on reality - you cannot deprive something that they own legally unless it's for 'public good' e.g. roads, mines , schools e.t.c. but you can force them to sell if the land is not being meaningfully used. but since all these are things that are being expected from the political class (laws e.t.c.) we need to do what is in our control i.e. migrate! find yourself a better life elsewhere! Let me state forthrightly - I am not for equality of wealth but rather for equality of opportunity and that is why I advocate for free education at the cost of the tax payer coz and educated populace is good for the public (cc @tycho). So dangling poverty at my face and saying 'poor' people are sleeping hungry will not cut it - this is not a socialist state! Who says that you need to have your own in politics to make it? there is an ethnic group in Kenya that has never had one of it's own in Power, neither as a minister and very few MPs but does not have poor people.... it's not the Kikuyu... nor is it the Kalenjin... ni wahindi! First Ted Turner live in USA a country with an average of 2 cars per a household and average employement of over 93% and household income of apprx $53,000; No one farm for food in USA. Majority of people don't even want to own land because land is not important to their livelihood so let's not compare USA to Kenya. The problem with issue of Land in Kenya is, people with big track of Land did not buy it or atleast they used their influence to obtain it and people with big track of land are one who control decision making on issues of Land; so it's a complicated matter. believe me - we are on the same page on this one. but I am the only one articulating a solution! Our solution does not lie in peasant farming or presidency or politics. it lies in the prudent use of our resources! I am not sure if I have said this here but I will just the same 'Bangladesh supports 170 million people' on a piece of land smaller than Rift Valley. Other than Russia and Ukraine - No European country beats us on 'Land' so let's rethink our use of land and other resources. ps. The Ted Turner thing was not a justification for anything or a parallel to anything but one to just to show you how smart I am ;-) so don't get derailed. Unfortunately politics dictated Prudent resource allocation! define: resource! even your brain is a resource! actually your brain is the largest resource! We have many many excuses that 'limit' us from making it big but the truth of the matter is many many people are saying bye to poverty by simply looking around and looking inwardly. I can guarantee you that the only thing a gava can do to 'setup' people is making the environment conducive for business. Wahindi wako na acre ngapi za mashamba? wako na mikono yao kwa tax payers kitty? nope - they just looked around and saw needs and solved those needs. Do you hear wahindi running around saying 'oh our people are not represented in this gava?'.... tuwache ushenzi! politics has been hailed as a panacea to all our illnesses and it has failed to deliver. Again, I get what you say but unfortunately, you're out of touch with the reality....... the reality is ordinary Kenyans are looking up to their government to solve issue!
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