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Complete and consistent Juche
tycho
#61 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 12:53:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:


What is 'reliable'? You definitely have heard of the phrase 'lost in translation'. Accuracy cannot be overemphasised hence the question - What is 'reliable'?

A complete and consisten African system like the one you are proposing is absolutely not contradicted, challenged, mitigated by the Wescott and Hort 'case'. The Wescott and Hort case is a lesson from the past for the future. From kitambo to kitambo. It is a practical lesson that humans should have in order to excel. But like all lessons, is it ever learned?

The 'complete and consistent Juche', a language, will need to learn from the Wescott and Hort case. It is 'doomed' if it doesn't.


In this case 'reliable' is the presence of a pattern on the timeline.

'Doomed'? What exactly, is to be doomed?



symbols
#62 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:02:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
How will Juche approach individual and collective choice?
Wakanyugi
#63 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:14:30 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
tycho wrote:
If one considers the history of Man, and even the history of the Universe, and his subjectivity, several things become clear. Among them;


Tycho, I was going to respond to your post when I saw the above non sequitur. Surely, the Universe by its very nature and definition (as all that is) can not have a history or a future. It simply is.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#64 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:28:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
symbols wrote:
How will Juche approach individual and collective choice?


Subtly, you're asking what comes first. The collective or the individual. Chicken-egg.

The chicken and the egg; the chicken can 'decide' to take a walk, eat. The egg? Will it hatch?

When the egg hatches and becomes a chick, is the chick independent from the Chicken?

The same way for the individual and the 'collective'. Independent and co-dependent. The egg and the Chicken are one and the same thing. Identity.

Muriel
#65 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:32:40 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:


In this case 'reliable' is the presence of a pattern on the timeline.

'Doomed'? What exactly, is to be doomed?




'Doomed' is to be plagued with many conflicting interpretations that are backed up by their respective changes that should not have been.
Muriel
#66 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:34:23 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
If one considers the history of Man, and even the history of the Universe, and his subjectivity, several things become clear. Among them;


Tycho, I was going to respond to your post when I saw the above non sequitur. Surely, the Universe by its very nature and definition (as all that is) can not have a history or a future. It simply is.



Hello there Wakanyugi?

I am glad to see you here with us.
tycho
#67 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:41:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
If one considers the history of Man, and even the history of the Universe, and his subjectivity, several things become clear. Among them;


Tycho, I was going to respond to your post when I saw the above non sequitur. Surely, the Universe by its very nature and definition (as all that is) can not have a history or a future. It simply is.


True. 'Beginning' and 'end', are instances of self consciousness. Self consciousness results in a timeline, and language.

Then, for your assertion to be true, something else must be true. Everything there is, is the Universe. The individual is the Universe. And the cat.

It is. But there's language, differentiation of Identity. I am. And order alas!
tycho
#68 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:48:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:


In this case 'reliable' is the presence of a pattern on the timeline.

'Doomed'? What exactly, is to be doomed?




'Doomed' is to be plagued with many conflicting interpretations that are backed up by their respective changes that should not have been.


There's nothing like 'changes that shouldn't have been'. The timeline doesn't care for personal tastes. In the history of Man, change has come without their consent, or control.

Change always is, conflict, even of interpretation always is. Doomed, isn't as bad or fearful as you wish it to be. It is.
symbols
#69 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 2:11:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
tycho wrote:
symbols wrote:
How will Juche approach individual and collective choice?


Subtly, you're asking what comes first. The collective or the individual. Chicken-egg.

The chicken and the egg; the chicken can 'decide' to take a walk, eat. The egg? Will it hatch?

When the egg hatches and becomes a chick, is the chick independent from the Chicken?

The same way for the individual and the 'collective'. Independent and co-dependent.The egg and the Chicken are one and the same thing. Identity.



I was asking about choice.An individual or collective can choose to act or think in a myriad of ways based on diverse influences and motives.Are you saying shared identity will change that?
Wakanyugi
#70 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 2:14:01 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
If one considers the history of Man, and even the history of the Universe, and his subjectivity, several things become clear. Among them;


Tycho, I was going to respond to your post when I saw the above non sequitur. Surely, the Universe by its very nature and definition (as all that is) can not have a history or a future. It simply is.


True. 'Beginning' and 'end', are instances of self consciousness. Self consciousness results in a timeline, and language.

Then, for your assertion to be true, something else must be true. Everything there is, is the Universe. The individual is the Universe. And the cat.

It is. But there's language, differentiation of Identity. I am. And order alas!


Differentiation is a human invention, a useful tool for navigating in our self created 3D reality etc, but only up to a point. The truth is that we are not different, although we play the differentiation game very well. I believe it was Marianne Williamson who said:

"Every problem emerges from the false belief that we are separate from one another, and every answer emerges from the realization we are not."

She has a point.

But, back to the Universe. How can it have a past or future when it contains all these qualities and many more within it? Quantum theory posits that everything that could exist already does.

Another way of putting it is, nothing can exist outside of the Universe and to describe it as having a history means you are assuming a position 'outside' of it - an impossibility. Therein lies the non sequitur I referred to.


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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