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Complete and consistent Juche
tycho
#41 Posted : Saturday, June 07, 2014 3:56:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Jokes, the search for the African identity is very 'fragile'. In my search, I realized that while 'African' entails the 'black' race, the color of the race doesn't exhaust the definition of African. Now and then one gets the sense that 'African' entails a universal identity.

For example, consider Africa as the origin of Man, the center of the very first migrations. Something of the nucleus goes everywhere.

But what does the development of Man, and migration mean? Growth in knowledge and increase of pressure and problems to be resolved.

When, and why, does one group oppress another? It's something to do with the growth of knowledge and culture under diverse conditions and traditions, and in limited geographical areas.

That the black is the center of the African identity nowadays then becomes clear as you consider how through time the other races have 'returned' to Africa, and how they found Africa.

The Bible, being a historical compilation with a deliberate intention by a people not in Africa excludes the possibility of it being African. There are other things to consider here, but at least, we've started.


jokes
#42 Posted : Saturday, June 07, 2014 4:15:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 323
Tycho you are quoting an European definition of us.
That we are from Africa and they give us a sweetener that its the cradle of civilization.
Bull shit
we were the creators of civilization,
we occupied most of the known world
we lost to the barbarians,
we run,
read your history with an open mind and decipher for yourself.
our history was intentionally erased and the victors history was placed upon us.
do you still in believe in the definitions of cushites, bantus, nilotes, that is utter nonsense.
we are all black the only difference are our languages.
As for the bible go back and read ancient Egyptian history and religion you will be shocked.
the whole bibles basis is derived from Egypt even Jesus,
the people in Israel and Egypt were black my friend not the current whites who live there presently.
Start reading books by African researchers it will inform you better. start with senegalise writer chiekh anta diop
tycho
#43 Posted : Saturday, June 07, 2014 4:33:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
1. I haven't yet defined the African. So far, am building up a definition.

2. When you say, 'we are the creators of civilization' you mean 'origin' of Man. Because Man is 'civilization'.

3. I have read Diop, I have read about the Egyptian origins of the 'Bible'.

And all these don't contradict what am saying in any way.

For example; While the Egyptians may have had the narratives in the Bible, the intentions of the Old testament are about a chosen people building their identity. The new testament is again the building of a new identity. The Bible, despite it's Egyptian roots isn't about an ancient identity.

As for Nilotes, and Cushites, we can discuss later.

By the way, that not all people of the world aren't black should have sufficient reason. And the reason can't exclude that the African identity is universal. There's a picture from ancient Egypt showing different colors of people right?
tycho
#44 Posted : Saturday, June 07, 2014 7:10:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The hypothesis/theory that the creators of civilization were chased away by the 'uncivilized' in a way doesn't contradict my earlier post. It describes some of what I've said in different words. Why?

1. Where did the barbarians- read humans, come from?

2. How was it possible to chase the civilized? It must follow that the barbarians themselves were getting civilized. Meaning a growth in knowledge, language and culture.

3. The theory in itself doesn't provide sufficient ground for defining the African now. Defining the African needs 'space' that allows changes in civilization and culture.
tycho
#45 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 12:59:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The African is a historical, spiritual, and philosophical system that conduces the being of humanity, and its thriving through all time. From deep past, kitambo, to the deep future, kitambo.

The history of humanity is the process of the discovery of the African identity, and its extension in the Universe.

To see this, one needs to look at the historical past, as far as the 'origins' of the Universe to the end of the Universe - Wikipedia is a good source for such an exercise- and check for patterns across time, and turning points like rise and fall of Civilizations, paradigm shifts like the 'neolithic revolution', the Copernican revolution, changes in political systems, and most critically, globalization and it's trends and demands, and the requirements for the thriving of humanity into the future.

As recently as the late 19th century, a well educated, and capable man like H.M. Stanley, a spy, and explorer couldn't reconcile himself to the African savage. Bonaparte, Voltaire, Montesquieu all had disparaging remarks for the African.

The 20th century has been about a Eurocentric political economy. But such a system must not only be violent and ineffective.
Muriel
#46 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 1:26:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
One, of some, things I know is the 'untouchables'. Caste. This is a negative contribution to and of the indegenous thought. Worse than Africans.


Show me how. Hahaha! And even show me if that caste system doesn't apply to the current pseudo-progressive thinking in the African mind.

Again, let me remind you that we are talking about indegnous cultivation and use of knowledge to resolve 'problems' and ensure the people involved have an opportunity to flourish, experience justice, exert responsibilities, and enjoy meaningful lives. By this, the caste system still qualifies.

What doesn't qualify is the African trying her best not to be African in dressing, in knowledge, manners, and tastes. That's one preposterous contradiction. It's condemning yourself to death. In the caste system, the untouchable can hope to be a Brahmin through reincarnation.

But poor African. What can he hope to be in the next life. Some say that in heaven 'we' shall be crowned differently. For some there will be golden crowns, others paper crowns, each according to merit. Now pause and ask, what crown can the African hope to wear? If his/her essence is so repugnant?

Some kinds of thinking offer the African no hope.



That is incomplete. Selective. Downgrading ought to be a possibility as well. Then also stagnation. Both, not advertised by the faithful, nevertheless logically must be. The African fares better with his paper crown.


Degradation isn't African. What's African?

I see we may not be talking about the same thing.


Perhaps.

Chocolate and makati ,,,,,
laugh
laugh
laugh

Makati bwaku bwaku?

lol. I need to stop laughing to dance.

I still don't see why not a free human cannot say what I have just said.

Proving negative and showing to be false is a high expression of freedom. Freedom to articulate and interrogate.

If there is an upgrading, is it not possible there can be a downgrading and a constant? Wikipedia? Why? It is not a good source.
tycho
#47 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 1:44:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Because of a eurocentric political economy, non European countries, and especially African countries have had to surrender her resources to the global powers. In fact, the Europeans have had to be compelled by the African to use the latter's resources. Look like how African human resources have had to thrust at the European in the form of immigration.

Now Europe and America are facing economic hardships mainly because markets aren't looking up to their products, and speculations. Even economic growth in Africa is too slow for the demands of the Capitalist drive.

This global situation is ripe ground for the loss of basic freedoms across the world, even in Europe itself this pressure is deeply felt, that now far right parties like UKIP and far far left parties like SYRIZA have grown in popularity and power.

All this pushing and shoving must not leave the African passive. For the solution to this deepening crisis is a turn around in African polity to a rise in global power. And all this is possible if the African identity is understood and put to action.



tycho
#48 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 1:57:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
One, of some, things I know is the 'untouchables'. Caste. This is a negative contribution to and of the indegenous thought. Worse than Africans.


Show me how. Hahaha! And even show me if that caste system doesn't apply to the current pseudo-progressive thinking in the African mind.

Again, let me remind you that we are talking about indegnous cultivation and use of knowledge to resolve 'problems' and ensure the people involved have an opportunity to flourish, experience justice, exert responsibilities, and enjoy meaningful lives. By this, the caste system still qualifies.

What doesn't qualify is the African trying her best not to be African in dressing, in knowledge, manners, and tastes. That's one preposterous contradiction. It's condemning yourself to death. In the caste system, the untouchable can hope to be a Brahmin through reincarnation.

But poor African. What can he hope to be in the next life. Some say that in heaven 'we' shall be crowned differently. For some there will be golden crowns, others paper crowns, each according to merit. Now pause and ask, what crown can the African hope to wear? If his/her essence is so repugnant?

Some kinds of thinking offer the African no hope.



That is incomplete. Selective. Downgrading ought to be a possibility as well. Then also stagnation. Both, not advertised by the faithful, nevertheless logically must be. The African fares better with his paper crown.


Degradation isn't African. What's African?

I see we may not be talking about the same thing.


Perhaps.

Chocolate and makati ,,,,,
laugh
laugh
laugh

Makati bwaku bwaku?

lol. I need to stop laughing to dance.

I still don't see why not a free human cannot say what I have just said.

Proving negative and showing to be false is a high expression of freedom. Freedom to articulate and interrogate.

If there is an upgrading, is it not possible there can be a downgrading and a constant? Wikipedia? Why? It is not a good source.


Wikipedia is a good source because because;

1. It's interactive and decentralized hence with an even bias.

2. Changes in knowledge per page are not significant enough to distort patterns across time.

3. It's easy for one who is 'pressed for time' to go through it.

Otherwise am disinclined to dance to your silly humor @Muriel.
simonkabz
#49 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 2:16:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Tycho, today I tried reding your posts!

Dathie toro!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
tycho
#50 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 2:27:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
simonkabz wrote:
Tycho, today I tried reding your posts!

Dathie toro!


I can understand your situation. The sleepless nights, and days I've had while examining myself must surely translate in another's sleep.
Muriel
#51 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 2:37:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
One, of some, things I know is the 'untouchables'. Caste. This is a negative contribution to and of the indegenous thought. Worse than Africans.


Show me how. Hahaha! And even show me if that caste system doesn't apply to the current pseudo-progressive thinking in the African mind.

Again, let me remind you that we are talking about indegnous cultivation and use of knowledge to resolve 'problems' and ensure the people involved have an opportunity to flourish, experience justice, exert responsibilities, and enjoy meaningful lives. By this, the caste system still qualifies.

What doesn't qualify is the African trying her best not to be African in dressing, in knowledge, manners, and tastes. That's one preposterous contradiction. It's condemning yourself to death. In the caste system, the untouchable can hope to be a Brahmin through reincarnation.

But poor African. What can he hope to be in the next life. Some say that in heaven 'we' shall be crowned differently. For some there will be golden crowns, others paper crowns, each according to merit. Now pause and ask, what crown can the African hope to wear? If his/her essence is so repugnant?

Some kinds of thinking offer the African no hope.



That is incomplete. Selective. Downgrading ought to be a possibility as well. Then also stagnation. Both, not advertised by the faithful, nevertheless logically must be. The African fares better with his paper crown.


Degradation isn't African. What's African?

I see we may not be talking about the same thing.


Perhaps.

Chocolate and makati ,,,,,
laugh
laugh
laugh

Makati bwaku bwaku?

lol. I need to stop laughing to dance.

I still don't see why not a free human cannot say what I have just said.

Proving negative and showing to be false is a high expression of freedom. Freedom to articulate and interrogate.

If there is an upgrading, is it not possible there can be a downgrading and a constant? Wikipedia? Why? It is not a good source.


Wikipedia is a good source because because;

1. It's interactive and decentralized hence with an even bias.

2. Changes in knowledge per page are not significant enough to distort patterns across time.

3. It's easy for one who is 'pressed for time' to go through it.

Otherwise am disinclined to dance to your silly humor @Muriel.


Ok, I am sorry. I will be serious henceforth.

I do not think wikipedia is a good source because of that single reason you have acknowledged. Bias. Changing a little here and a little there reminds me of Messrs B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort. Ease of read hence provides little comfort to the inquiring mind in deep study.

simonkabz
#52 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 2:41:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
tycho wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Tycho, today I tried reding your posts!

Dathie toro!


I can understand your situation. The sleepless nights, and days I've had while examining myself must surely translate in another's sleep.


TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
tycho
#53 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 2:47:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Thank you @Muriel, I always appreciate your serious engagement, and dancing.

While one can make changes here and there, the changes can't upset the patterns we are talking about here, and moreover the odds that one will write about an event that never happened, or events across time are few. Dates, names, details can vary but not to such wide variation especially if the page is of wide interest.

But one should also apply due diligence.
Muriel
#54 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 3:04:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142

Thank you too, brother.

But I beg to differ with you about the overall effect a few changes here and there make to a given narrative.

For just an example, I have departed with others on account of the different mental pictures both of us respectively had as a result of referring to same but different literature - same as both referred to same event but different due to the little changes here and there one literature underwent.

Part of due diligence is to raise an alert to the wayfarer of the pitfalls of the 'little' changes.
nesta
#55 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 3:08:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
To what extent have 'foreign' religions like Christianity, and Islam, or Buddhism, or any other non indegnous philosophical and spiritual system promoted the African and his identity?

Early conversion to Christianity of Ethiopians hasn't spared the country from operating below its nobility. Sudan and southern Sudan are still facing pangs whose end can't be foreseen. The great Songhai empire's decline was vastly a result of tension between a new culture contending with an African culture that seems to have prevented Askia the great from modernizing his army.

The Christianity that was brought by the Colonialists was not the same Christianity of old Ethiopia or Makuria. It's a kind of Christianity that ensured the African would stay as an inferior species.

Why then should such thinking be supported now?

Again, what does history show about the religions of Man, even across continents? Religious growth must come from within. Spirituality can't be exported or imported and retain its power. In America and Europe ancient religions like 'Celtism' and Wicca are rising why?

We must not take these things for granted.


You are talking nonsense. A whole bunch of it. (This is simply a statement of fact and not an insult.)

What makes an ideology foreign?

Isn't Christianity also foreign to the British? Jews? and ALL? Doesn't religion start with ONE person? Isn't such religion foreign to ALL others?

If i were to start my own religion today, would it be indigenous to Kenyans? Will it be foreign to you? Will it be an African religion?

Stop smoking that thing. Juche is Rubbish. Juche is madness. Juche is a religion that teaches that ALL north Koreans, when they die, will be united with their "eternal president" Kim Ill-Sung.
On Christ Alone
tycho
#56 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 3:15:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@nesta, what makes something foreign is easy to show. A language can be foreign.

And a language carries with it a belief system. So if there's a foreign language then there's a foreign belief. Hence 'acculturation'.

For example, in Colonial Africa there was talk of 'assimilation' and a stunting of native and indigenous languages.

True, the North Korean understanding of Juche has much to be criticized, but so does it have its merits. You have done well to mention some of what you may think are demerits.
tycho
#57 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2014 3:23:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Allow me @nesta, to respond to what you think is wrong about Juche.

You say it's wrong for North Koreans to meet with their leader after death. Isn't this a common belief across cultures. Meeting the dead in the afterlife is even in Christianity. Or are the names the contestable factor?
tycho
#58 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:31:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:

Thank you too, brother.

But I beg to differ with you about the overall effect a few changes here and there make to a given narrative.

For just an example, I have departed with others on account of the different mental pictures both of us respectively had as a result of referring to same but different literature - same as both referred to same event but different due to the little changes here and there one literature underwent.

Part of due diligence is to raise an alert to the wayfarer of the pitfalls of the 'little' changes.


It seems that the Westcott and Hort 'case' provides us with a good point of reference for our conversation @Muriel.

1. For the argument that Wikipedia would serve well for the study of humanity's timeline. Once again in 'countless' times, within the range of recorded history from past to now, the page, especially regarding times in history is reliable in giving a picture that can form the pattern(s) I have mentioned above. For example, there was a time there was no KJV.

Again just to remind you something, the usefulness of Wikipedia on this experiment extends to pages about the future.

2. A complete and consistent African system like the one I'm proposing is not contradicted, or challenged in any way by the case of Westcott and Hort. In fact, the case brings out the goodness, and greatness of the African identity.

I realize that our thinking isn't as clear as should be, @Muriel. We are talking about the results of a practical activity whose relevance I have already shown as the practical wisdom that humans should have in order to excel in all ways.

That is, what is, and can be learned from studying such a timeline.


tycho
#59 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 12:00:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The 'complete and consistent Juche' is a Meta language. The world can now speak one language.
Muriel
#60 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 12:13:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142


What is 'reliable'? You definitely have heard of the phrase 'lost in translation'. Accuracy cannot be overemphasised hence the question - What is 'reliable'?

A complete and consisten African system like the one you are proposing is absolutely not contradicted, challenged, mitigated by the Wescott and Hort 'case'. The Wescott and Hort case is a lesson from the past for the future. From kitambo to kitambo. It is a practical lesson that humans should have in order to excel. But like all lessons, is it ever learned?

The 'complete and consistent Juche', a language, will need to learn from the Wescott and Hort case. It is 'doomed' if it doesn't.
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