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Oh Jubileeeee, When did you Give Up?
washiku
#11 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:18:09 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
This takes me back to 2003 after Kibaki had come onto power. Security situation deteriorated to high levels, somebody Abongo was looking clueless. I remember vividly Ruto asking a certain question all the time: Why cant we get a way of getting our army assist? Why should they just "sit" in barracks when thugs are all over killing us? Well, the army was not deployed, though Ali was called in as the police boss. Maybe the two were not related in any way.

Since then, I have always had this question in mind: WHY NOT THE ARMY?

1. There is heavy investment in that area.
2. We haven't been in a war as a country.
3. We continue to recruit more soldiers every year.
4. We have heavy machinery and military intelligence team well trained and admired regionally.

There could be legal restrictions. There could be training issues. Cant those be sorted legally? I always detest the idea that "you can not reason with an army guy" Why not? They are human. Training? We are not deploying the whole army on the streets. A one week discussion on explaining to the guys being deployed on what is expected on them is enough to send them to Wajir and sort out those thugs that sprinkles our police with bullets.

Okay, what about them reducing investment in the army and directing it to police? I know this will be rejected on the basis of you never know when the enemy can strike bla bla bla...Which I always find deficient reasoning because we already have enough guys(Well, I might not be accurate). The other day I was listening to Africa Dialogue and the former president of Botswana was arguing that what Africa needs currently is not the army because our major security problems currently are not external but internal. Why then should we continue pumping billions of shillings in an unit that does not have an immediate direct effect on our economy when thugs keeps shooting people around because of under-investment on the internal security? In fact the guy gave an example of a country that survived without an army and it was just fine.

Back to our question. Why not use the army? Personally I would not only want to see them deployed in critical sections, but also used on a day to day basis to sink boreholes, wells, build bridges, roads, etc on those rural areas where their machinery can be of great use.

We need to think beyond any imaginary boxes and utilise our resources effectively. Personally, I am so pained by the security issue that I dont care what legal means can be used to clear away the thugs. Why go fight alshabaab in Somalia and let their type within un-attended?

All in all, I am no expert on this security things. Maybe that is why I can think beyond coz am not restricted by those imaginary restrictions they put on each other. Thus I would need a genuine reasoning on why the army should not be touched. @Alma, make me understand, logically, why its so bad to touch the army. Please.
dossy7
#12 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:27:22 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,493
Location: Nairobi
One way of consolidating power is having a military state.
Jubilee is turning Kenya into a military state slowly. First it was NYS restructuring where youths will be trained to handle weapons and now the army will be patrolling the streets.
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
McReggae
#13 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:28:42 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
@Washiku I agree with you last points: The military should only be involved in civilian duties like road and bridge construction. Mixing them with people is invitation of trouble.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
washiku
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:33:00 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
McReggae wrote:
@Washiku I agree with you last points: The military should only be involved in civilian duties like road and bridge construction. Mixing them with people is invitation of trouble.


What is wrong with it? Maybe if I am made to understand I will get it. For starters, shouldn't they be patrolling every corner of Somalia border, both on Land and Air?
Mjasirii
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:35:30 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/8/2012
Posts: 257
It's a good move however after awhile they will become like the police,case in point in Northern part illegal arms and sugar still find it's way into the country yet they patrol the border point and the roads.
The difference between KDF and KP is the amount of charges you have to pay.
McReggae
#16 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:47:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
washiku wrote:
McReggae wrote:
@Washiku I agree with you last points: The military should only be involved in civilian duties like road and bridge construction. Mixing them with people is invitation of trouble.


What is wrong with it? Maybe if I am made to understand I will get it. For starters, shouldn't they be patrolling every corner of Somalia border, both on Land and Air?



Once you take these boys out of the barracks, it's difficult to convince them back. Does KDF teach counterterrorism, to my knowledge crime detection and prevention is only taught to the police forces......... it wont be long before we hear of a KDF soldier having shot a traffic policeman in the name 'friendly' fire, this is a blunder unless the aim is something else!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
alma
#17 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:48:21 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Washiku I can see your argument is coming from a point of desperation from the current security situation.

There is a reason why armies are not deployed anywhere even in China for security issues. That is not what they are trained to do. Its like killing a mosquito with a trailer.

When you are deploying the army on the streets, whichever streets be they Mandera, Wajir, Runda etc, you as the gov't are accepting that you have failed in your core mandate. Securing the country.

You are accepting that your police force is useless and cannot deal with security issues.

That is the beginning of accepting that you have a failed security system. I'm not sure that's the message any gov't wants to send to its populace.

The issue of using the army for community work is not an issue you are going to get a lot of arguments from in the whole world. In the US we have the Army Corps of Engineers which will help out in EMERGENCY situations.

But at the same time there has to be a balance between deploying the army for all community development issues. You don't want the army starting to fight for tenders to fly the president's speeches, do you?

It is not the army's work to patrol borders. That's the work of customs and the police.

Why create institutions then come back later to say they have failed so lets get the army. Then still keep the failed institutions.

Why not just have the army run things?

That Washiku is the part that will become a danger even to the army itself.

There is a constitutional dispensation in this country that tells us the exact roles for each agency.

This gov't has preached that they have performance metrics they follow. So if the police aren't doing their work, then you should fire them. Not promote them and get someone else to do their work.

Follow the constitution or just get into a military state and keep quiet.

The army is not equipped to stop cars on the highway and do an investigation. They are equipped to blow up the car and ask questions later. Training them to do otherwise is training policemen.

I am very very confident that there are army guys who are shaking their heads at this decree.

Only someone who has accepted failure can allow it. Obviously the Cabinet Secretaries in this case have accepted failure. So its time to move on.

Please remember the situation at Westgate. Now multiply those 200 soldiers in that building and add them to highways. You will get a clear answer as to why the rational world prefers the army to go out to kill other people. The work of soldiers is to kill and destroy. Not to pacify and send you to court.

Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Tebes
#18 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:48:28 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
smile smile smile

The flower girl in the Defence Ministry. Is there anything she can tell the Major Generals???

On matters security, why are we taking the burden of Ole Lenku and Kimaiyo's failures??? All these actions are diversionary to mitigate the failures of these two!
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
McReggae
#19 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:12:21 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
@Washiku further: The Army is usually deployed in units. The smallest, a squad comprises of about 14 men lead by a sergeant. The police on the hand can be deployed in pairs. How then can the army do the policing without virtually taking over?
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
KulaRaha
#20 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:13:29 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
I thought there is a law in the Constitution that requires Parliamentary approval before allowing our armed forces to be deployed in our own country?

Or is that just in civilised nations such at Russia, USA, China etc?
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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