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Cashless matatu fare system.
mpobiz
#41 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:21:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,264
Cash less doesn't mean money less society? You still have to work for your money.
unless you are a criminal why should you fear to register on order to buy or sell?
I long time ago , governments realised they could control the economy and acquire taxes and discouraged barter trade and introduced money.
cash money now has become a liability to governments and individuals and it's time for it to go.
Yes cyber or electronic crime is on the rise but it's not as life threatening as physical robbery.
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
alma
#42 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:28:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
mpobiz wrote:
Cash less doesn't mean money less society? You still have to work for your money.
unless you are a criminal why should you fear to register on order to buy or sell?
I long time ago , governments realised they could control the economy and acquire taxes and discouraged barter trade and introduced money.
cash money now has become a liability to governments and individuals and it's time for it to go.
Yes cyber or electronic crime is on the rise but it's not as life threatening as physical robbery.


You sound like the same fellow who said cash is not used in US buses.

What makes you think electronic crime is better than physical crime? So your argument is that the gov't will be saving my 20 bob cash for using Equity banks beba pay?

smh

I will say it again. The gov't has no business in the business of matatus. Their work is to license and come up with road safety laws. Then IMPLEMENT the laws.

Not deciding the cash someone should carry in a matatu and what mode of dispensing this money is used. Next they will tell me never to wear jeans in a matatu since its too tight.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Tebes
#43 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 2:00:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
Quote:
Just about everything that we do in life involves money. So yes, a government can track electronic payments to make sure taxes are being paid and money laundering is not happening, but it would also enable a government to do so much more.

If a government can track all of your transactions, it will essentially be able to monitor everywhere you go and pretty much keep track of virtually everything that you do.

If you doubt this, just try to live without any money some time.

You won’t get very far without putting some gas in your vehicle.

And without being able to buy food, you will get hungry pretty quickly.

Are you starting to understand?

This is why governments love the idea of moving toward a cashless society. It would give them an immensely powerful surveillance tool.


http://endoftheamericand...s-first-cashless-society
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
King G
#44 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 2:04:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,855
Location: Othumo
1 st of July 2014 is less than 33 days away. Wacha tuone! We shall revist this then!
Thieves
Muriel
#45 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:49:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
[quote=Tebes]
Quote:
Just about everything that we do in life involves money. So yes, a government can track electronic payments to make sure taxes are being paid and money laundering is not happening, but it would also enable a government to do so much more.

If a government can track all of your transactions, it will essentially be able to monitor everywhere you go and pretty much keep track of virtually everything that you do.

If you doubt this, just try to live without any money some time.

You won’t get very far without putting some gas in your vehicle.

And without being able to buy food, you will get hungry pretty quickly.

Are you starting to understand?

This is why governments love the idea of moving toward a cashless society. It would give them an immensely powerful surveillance tool.


http://endoftheamericand...-first-cashless-society[/quote]

My heart is strangely warm at this thought. Exciting! Lets get it over and done with!!!!!!
mkeiy
#46 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 5:11:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
nakujua wrote:

I can imagine some jamas have already imported those gadgets and some have already brought in the cards - I agree with you, the government has no business in this set up, let the matatu owners who want to implement it do it, and let those who do not want to be.

tuona which system will prevail, though I think a hybrid would work better, either a card or cash.


Bangi imelala kwa mtungi ya petrol acha.

Debit/credit cards have been around for ages, have "jamaas" imported them?

The system works and once its fine tuned, it will be very beneficial to the passengers.

Cash must be allowed but through a machine, just like a vending machine without the choice of what to pay.

All public buses/mats within the city have minimum fare set. What currently have is BOARDING point-of-sale, what we are lacking is the EXIT POS.

This is how the system works;
When boarding, you tap/swipe, being charged the minimum allowed fare let say 20 bob for our case. If you exit before you reach the destination where 20bob would have taken you, when alighting you swipe/tap and only 20bob is charged from your card.

If you destination is further than where 20bob in our case would have taken you, there is a surcharge and you get charged when alighting.

The benefit comes in when connecting routes/mats. If you board the next mat within the stipulated connection time, say 10 mins, on the second route/mat, you pay a percentage of the usual stipulated fare. On the third route/mat, the pay is virtually zero. The thinking is, the third route will be the first route in reverse.

For it to work smoothly, the issuers of those cards need to not more than two, and strictly monitored by local authorities for fairness. The bus/mat companies must not be many for ease of accountability and transparency.

The system works smoothly elsewhere.

The thing is , waafrika, , , , , , , , , , , , "will the unyeuthi in us allow it?"
mkenyan
#47 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:05:06 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,883
mkeiy wrote:
nakujua wrote:

I can imagine some jamas have already imported those gadgets and some have already brought in the cards - I agree with you, the government has no business in this set up, let the matatu owners who want to implement it do it, and let those who do not want to be.

tuona which system will prevail, though I think a hybrid would work better, either a card or cash.


Bangi imelala kwa mtungi ya petrol acha.

Debit/credit cards have been around for ages, have "jamaas" imported them?

The system works and once its fine tuned, it will be very beneficial to the passengers.

Cash must be allowed but through a machine, just like a vending machine without the choice of what to pay.

All public buses/mats within the city have minimum fare set. What currently have is BOARDING point-of-sale, what we are lacking is the EXIT POS.

This is how the system works;
When boarding, you tap/swipe, being charged the minimum allowed fare let say 20 bob for our case. If you exit before you reach the destination where 20bob would have taken you, when alighting you swipe/tap and only 20bob is charged from your card.

If you destination is further than where 20bob in our case would have taken you, there is a surcharge and you get charged when alighting.

The benefit comes in when connecting routes/mats. If you board the next mat within the stipulated connection time, say 10 mins, on the second route/mat, you pay a percentage of the usual stipulated fare. On the third route/mat, the pay is virtually zero. The thinking is, the third route will be the first route in reverse.

For it to work smoothly, the issuers of those cards need to not more than two, and strictly monitored by local authorities for fairness. The bus/mat companies must not be many for ease of accountability and transparency.

The system works smoothly elsewhere.

The thing is , waafrika, , , , , , , , , , , , "will the unyeuthi in us allow it?"

so you swipe and board. when you reach the 20/- stage you swipe for exit. 20/- is deducted from your card. you give the manamba 30/- in cash and alight later at a 70/- stage without swiping.
mkenyan
#48 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:09:25 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,883
someone enlighten me on how this would stop corruption. the reason why the police are bribed is to stop the matatu drivers and owners (we currently see the latter giving more bribe money if the vehicle is impounded). cashless sytem for passengers would not remove this reason. so all the matatu owners would have to do is give the drivers money for bribes to cover anything from worn out tires - overlapping- to dinded fiekos.
alma
#49 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:27:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
mkeiy I love that system. If it comes with the option to pay cash.

As Mkenyan has just enlightened you, this is Keinia laws are made to be broken and for the police to take more bribes. And the tenderprenuers to make a killing.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Pedes
#50 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:25:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/30/2013
Posts: 659
Sasa, wathi wa squadi wata ji sort ki-vipi?Sad Sad
If you stay ready, no need to get ready.
murchr
#51 Posted : Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:17:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
@alma Kelele miiiiingi ya nini? Watu kama wewe are expected, people who are always resistant to change, dont worry you'll get used to it better still dont use them matatus. Wenye gari ndio wataamua who told you that you are in control?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Muriel
#52 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:27:15 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
mkeiy wrote:
nakujua wrote:

I can imagine some jamas have already imported those gadgets and some have already brought in the cards - I agree with you, the government has no business in this set up, let the matatu owners who want to implement it do it, and let those who do not want to be.

tuona which system will prevail, though I think a hybrid would work better, either a card or cash.


Bangi imelala kwa mtungi ya petrol acha.

Debit/credit cards have been around for ages, have "jamaas" imported them?

The system works and once its fine tuned, it will be very beneficial to the passengers.

Cash must be allowed but through a machine, just like a vending machine without the choice of what to pay.

All public buses/mats within the city have minimum fare set. What currently have is BOARDING point-of-sale, what we are lacking is the EXIT POS.

This is how the system works;
When boarding, you tap/swipe, being charged the minimum allowed fare let say 20 bob for our case. If you exit before you reach the destination where 20bob would have taken you, when alighting you swipe/tap and only 20bob is charged from your card.

If you destination is further than where 20bob in our case would have taken you, there is a surcharge and you get charged when alighting.

The benefit comes in when connecting routes/mats. If you board the next mat within the stipulated connection time, say 10 mins, on the second route/mat, you pay a percentage of the usual stipulated fare. On the third route/mat, the pay is virtually zero. The thinking is, the third route will be the first route in reverse.

For it to work smoothly, the issuers of those cards need to not more than two, and strictly monitored by local authorities for fairness. The bus/mat companies must not be many for ease of accountability and transparency.

The system works smoothly elsewhere.

The thing is , waafrika, , , , , , , , , , , , "will the unyeuthi in us allow it?"



Too much regulation and consolidation of this line of business into the hands of a few.
mkeiy
#53 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:41:37 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:



Too much regulation and consolidation of this line of business into the hands of a few.



How would you expect it to run with everyone? having a matatu on the road.

Systems are there for a reason.

Those who use brains embrace them, those who use hearts reject them.

All the same, unyeuthi!
alma
#54 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:49:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
murchr wrote:
@alma Kelele miiiiingi ya nini? Watu kama wewe are expected, people who are always resistant to change, dont worry you'll get used to it better still dont use them matatus. Wenye gari ndio wataamua who told you that you are in control?


aii my friend. I can assure you, I am more digital than you will ever be. And mine is not an empty laptop campaign promise. I was digital before you knew the meaning of the word. Hata ukiskia sina simu, nilipitia hiyo stage a long long time ago. Ati resistant to change. Ha!

I'm resistant to gov't control of things that are none of their business. Wenye magari have every right to change how they do business.

The gov't on the other hand has things like finding out who is sending leaflets in Tinderet it should be doing, or just finding terrorists. If they wish to, they can search for dinded fiekos. Not making laws on how or what mode of payment a human being should be using.

I do hope in your search for the digital life you never forgot English comprehension and understand what I'm saying.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
mkeiy
#55 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:59:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
mkenyan wrote:

so you swipe and board. when you reach the 20/- stage you swipe for exit. 20/- is deducted from your card. you give the manamba 30/- in cash and alight later at a 70/- stage without swiping.


Essentially, the buses should be big to have two doors. The front one for boarding and the rear one for alighting. The doors are controlled by the driver [opening and closing].

For single door like our mats, the owners need to start automating the doors asap and do away with makangas [ of course that will take some time and a lot of resistance]. The machine [POS] will then be mounted somewhere near the door, you swipe/tap while boarding and tap/swipe while alighting. The cash point also go next to the card system. Fares are preset and the crew don't get to handle a single penny.

They also need to start fitting all buses/matatus with Cctv cameras all linked to the bus/matatu company head office and the local authority office. If the crew cuts corners, the owners/local authorities get to know.

For ease of getting smaller denominations for fares, there will also need to be sort of change-dispensing machines. You insert your thao, you get lower denominations or even coins.

The issue of makangas will go [their pay catering for the new needed ICT hardware] and in the long run, very beneficial to the whole economy.

A lil' use of common sense would make the system work by all involved showing utmost cooperation.

Let us all support the above than just being negative.
Pessimism pays no one!
Muriel
#56 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:16:46 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
mkeiy wrote:
Muriel wrote:



Too much regulation and consolidation of this line of business into the hands of a few.



How would you expect it to run with everyone? having a matatu on the road.

Systems are there for a reason.

Those who use brains embrace them, those who use hearts reject them.

All the same, unyeuthi!


Give nyeuthis some credit if they use their brains to think, unless you believe nyeuthis cannot and should not think, theirs is to accept and adopt. Only.

That is the point, it is not expected to run with everyone having a matatu on the road and that would mean either:
(a) 'retrenchment' of the 'small holder' matatus or
(b) conglomeration / cartels / monopolies

Point (b) will be the most viable option and that will leave the individual commuter at a most disadvantaged position in so far as his bargaining power goes.

By the way, what is the primary problem is this that this new system is expected to solve? It is not a rhetorical question. Is it too much liquidity on the roads? Is there anything fundamentally wrong with cash on the roads?

Bribery is a second tier problem tertiary to this point. What will be the solution to bribery?
nakujua
#57 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:48:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
mkeiy wrote:
nakujua wrote:

I can imagine some jamas have already imported those gadgets and some have already brought in the cards - I agree with you, the government has no business in this set up, let the matatu owners who want to implement it do it, and let those who do not want to be.

tuona which system will prevail, though I think a hybrid would work better, either a card or cash.


Bangi imelala kwa mtungi ya petrol acha.

Debit/credit cards have been around for ages, have "jamaas" imported them?


yes, jamaas import them - they are not manufactured locally, ama I am missing something ?
nakujua
#58 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:55:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
mkeiy wrote:
mkenyan wrote:

so you swipe and board. when you reach the 20/- stage you swipe for exit. 20/- is deducted from your card. you give the manamba 30/- in cash and alight later at a 70/- stage without swiping.


Essentially, the buses should be big to have two doors. The front one for boarding and the rear one for alighting. The doors are controlled by the driver [opening and closing].

For single door like our mats, the owners need to start automating the doors asap and do away with makangas [ of course that will take some time and a lot of resistance]. The machine [POS] will then be mounted somewhere near the door, you swipe/tap while boarding and tap/swipe while alighting. The cash point also go next to the card system. Fares are preset and the crew don't get to handle a single penny.

They also need to start fitting all buses/matatus with Cctv cameras all linked to the bus/matatu company head office and the local authority office. If the crew cuts corners, the owners/local authorities get to know.

For ease of getting smaller denominations for fares, there will also need to be sort of change-dispensing machines. You insert your thao, you get lower denominations or even coins.

The issue of makangas will go [their pay catering for the new needed ICT hardware] and in the long run, very beneficial to the whole economy.

A lil' use of common sense would make the system work by all involved showing utmost cooperation.

Let us all support the above than just being negative.
Pessimism pays no one!

you have excellent ideas, and I am in full support of the same, from the;
automating of the doors, getting rid of makangas, installing cctv connected to the head office, buying bigger busses with 2 doors, presetting fares, installing pos at the matatu door, change dispensing machines, breaking up a thao into coins, using the 300 bob paid to makanga to buy and maintain the ICT Hardware, and last but not least all of us supporting the grand ideas.smile
Money Whisperer
#59 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:50:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
alma wrote:
@washiku there's a basic principle that I never shift from. Gov't interference in my private life. I don't care how moral a gov't feels it is.

It is ok for owners to want to go cashless. That's their business.

But it is very very wrong for the gov't to be telling me how to pay for a particular service or product. And put a law.

Next they will tell us to use beba pay in all butcheries.

For the saved guys out there, this is the 666 the letters of the devil that we were told about.

Washiku, see how easy it would be for me to start tearing it down?

hahaha! @alma, that's how the "civilized world" works no wonder the adage the law is an ass. in some copuntries the law forbids cash transactions beyond a certain figure meaning you have to swipe cards or use checks. anza kuzoea
"Money never sleeps"
murchr
#60 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:38:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
alma wrote:
murchr wrote:
@alma Kelele miiiiingi ya nini? Watu kama wewe are expected, people who are always resistant to change, dont worry you'll get used to it better still dont use them matatus. Wenye gari ndio wataamua who told you that you are in control?


aii my friend. I can assure you, I am more digital than you will ever be. And mine is not an empty laptop campaign promise. I was digital before you knew the meaning of the word. Hata ukiskia sina simu, nilipitia hiyo stage a long long time ago. Ati resistant to change. Ha!

I'm resistant to gov't control of things that are none of their business. Wenye magari have every right to change how they do business.

The gov't on the other hand has things like finding out who is sending leaflets in Tinderet it should be doing, or just finding terrorists. If they wish to, they can search for dinded fiekos. Not making laws on how or what mode of payment a human being should be using.

I do hope in your search for the digital life you never forgot English comprehension and understand what I'm saying.


The govts biggest interest is revenue collection, lazima ushuru ilipwe thats why cash elimination is key. Another thing its becoming very expensive to print and kuthondeka those coins you call money thats why almost all govts are looking at minimizing the use of cash/coins.

So start looking at it from that angle, owners want to get the maximum returns from their investments, and the GOK wants to collect as much revenue as they can. Wewe kama abiria hauna say, you get that gadget or you walk/drive yourself to wherever.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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