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Sudan women face death for Christianity
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:@Admin, close this thread.  The same people who started a thread to insult Islam now want it closed! Is it because you have just discovered Christ was a Prophet and servant of the one true God?? Hardly. It's because it is to no avail. That you enjoy this kind of discourse is no surprise. It is why where there is your kind of people, peace flys out the window. Some Christians here are always looking for a fight then cry foul when Muslims defend themselves! Was it a Muslim who started this thread? Was it a Muslim who started insulting another religion?? Just like the crusaders some Christians here are trying to start wars they can never win! We will always come to the defense of Islam no matter how long it takes! Your answer... muganda wrote:Morning warriors  I note my post was first. In the interest of learning, kindly point me to where I insulted Islam? This woman is 27yrs old, pregnant, and she faces death in 2014 for saying 'she is a Chrisitian'! The insult would be not to highlight her plight. It is a fallacy when human beings cheerfully do what is evil and shield themselves using religion, be they Sudanese militia, Israeli incursions, Medieval inquisitions, or Burma sacrifices. Even I stopped crying foul, when some Pastor's wayward ways are exposed. This was no attack, it was pointing out an abnormality!
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/20/2011 Posts: 161 Location: nairobi
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This two guys cannot reason logically. No. sane person would kill that lady. So logically speaking, this two are insane... and I doubt this has anything to do with Islam. IT IS PLAIN STUPIDITY.... They are just acting HOLY. Aldultry involves even looking or thinking of a woman or man that is not your spouse in a lustfull manner. @Alphodoti and @guru... Are you saying you have never done so? If Not, you are not human. If you have, may I be the first one to stone you? Or have you been stoned before and survived to stone others? Patience. You cannot have a baby in one month by impregnating nine women....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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bkismat wrote:@Alpha I asked you a question and you have completely ignored it so I will ask again. If a Muslim woman married a Christian man as in this case is she committing adultery and fornication? @bkismat a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man, is not a marriage. It is adultery. They are committing adultery. If they want to have a marriage, this man has to accept shahadah (say there is no one worthy of worship but Allah alone) and get re-married again.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:bkismat wrote:@Alpha I asked you a question and you have completely ignored it so I will ask again. If a Muslim woman married a Christian man as in this case is she committing adultery and fornication? @bkismat a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man, is not a marriage. It is adultery. They are committing adultery. If they want to have a marriage, this man has to accept shahadah (say there is no one worthy of worship but Allah alone) and get re-married again. Inconsistency again. The man should also be killed. Or is it discriminating? Or do you want to say that though the man has committed adultery he hasn't committed apostasy? It must follow. But can this be proven? Your laws are arbitrary and unjust.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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meme wrote:This two guys cannot reason logically.
No. sane person would kill that lady. So logically speaking, this two are insane... and I doubt this has anything to do with Islam.
IT IS PLAIN STUPIDITY.... They are just acting HOLY. Aldultry involves even looking or thinking of a woman or man that is not your spouse in a lustfull manner. @Alphodoti and @guru... Are you saying you have never done so? If Not, you are not human. If you have, may I be the first one to stone you? Or have you been stoned before and survived to stone others? @meme that is not in Islam, but in the Bible, yes I would be stoned. Exodus 20:14 " You shall not commit adultery." Deuteronomy 22:22 " If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." Leviticus 20:10 " If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." Since adultery causes death from the verses above, now see what Jesus (peace be upon him) said about adultery: Matthew 19:9 " I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." Wouldn't this cause the man to be put to death? Mark 10:11 " Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her." Again, wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have committed adultery? Mark 10:12 " And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." Same question about the women who are considered have committed adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:bkismat wrote:@Alpha I asked you a question and you have completely ignored it so I will ask again. If a Muslim woman married a Christian man as in this case is she committing adultery and fornication? @bkismat a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man, is not a marriage. It is adultery. They are committing adultery. If they want to have a marriage, this man has to accept shahadah (say there is no one worthy of worship but Allah alone) and get re-married again. Inconsistency again. The man should also be killed. Or is it discriminating? Or do you want to say that though the man has committed adultery he hasn't committed apostasy? It must follow. But can this be proven? Your laws are arbitrary and unjust. @tycho where did I say the man to be killed above?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:FOR YOU ALL
1. Just because somebody accusing somebody of fornication or spreading corruption does not mean automatic application of the law. No, not like that.
2. Islamic law requires that there be four witnesses for the application of this law.
3. The witnesses must be reliable witnesses, not just anybody.
Just and righteous people. And without reliable four witnesses, the law cannot be applied.
4. That's why the number of cases of people executed, in the last 1400 years to today, they are very, very few. They can be counted.
5. The evidence can be: confession, or recordings, or video evidence, or a woman gets pregant and gives birth to a baby, she becomes pregnant while her husband is away or not married etc.
6. Where there is clear evidence, the law will apply.
#BringTheRuling This is a process and ritual, but it's not necessarily foolproof, especially when the idea that supports it is questionable. For example, take wazua's quote of the day, "How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg "- Abraham Lincoln @tycho what is questionable? Islamic law is Law of God. Only God knows what is right and beneficial for His creation, and alternatively what is wrong and harmful. The Quran clearly states the lawful and unlawful actions. All Humans must follow this Law of God which is known as the 'Shariah' or Islamic Law. Your problem is not the law, your problem is, you don't believe it is from God. So right there is the problem. Even if it were not about this woman, it would have been something else. The part that says "there is no compulsion" is also from God, is it not? I have not read anywhere that there was evidence she spoke against Islam. She claimed to never having been a muslim in the first place!Therefore this treason charge you have levied does not pass muster. In essence, it boils down to this: You are free to leave Islam, but if you do, we will kill you. And you are so convinced she is guilty, it is frightening. In your realm, there is no one to defend innocent people against those who wilfully misinterpret law and abuse it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:bkismat wrote:@Alpha I asked you a question and you have completely ignored it so I will ask again. If a Muslim woman married a Christian man as in this case is she committing adultery and fornication? @bkismat a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man, is not a marriage. It is adultery. They are committing adultery. If they want to have a marriage, this man has to accept shahadah (say there is no one worthy of worship but Allah alone) and get re-married again. Inconsistency again. The man should also be killed. Or is it discriminating? Or do you want to say that though the man has committed adultery he hasn't committed apostasy? It must follow. But can this be proven? Your laws are arbitrary and unjust. @tycho where did I say the man to be killed above? You didn't, and haven't mentioned the killing of the man. And that's why you and the laws in Sudan, or Islam are inconsistent. Because if the man has committed adultery, why not apostasy?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:You say that your laws are from God, and they must be upheld. But even this particular case you are still extending your inconsistency. Why? Laws must attain a certain standard or requirement to be laws. Otherwise anyone would call any pronouncement a law. And the standard to be met must be open to reason across humanity irregardless of race.
Or is this God against some races and peoples?
Besides, God is a social construct. And more often than not, geopolitically limited. Otherwise, why isn't Confucius one of your prophets? Even when Mohammed was meditating in the cave, there were other people in other places. It's not reasonable, at least to imagine that there was only one spiritual person on earth.
So 'questionable' is the idea of calling a tail a leg. @tycho God Almighty (I'm not talking your man-god stuff here), has drawn for us a way of life to attain success in this world (caring for universe, relating to each other, caring for animals and plants etc). Humans meddled with this way. They made changes (google about changes in the original scripture revealed by God). Messengers were sent to bring back mankind to the correct path. Prophets were chosen by God. It's not a matter of choice, or attained by devotion or worship or self-control. Messengers were sent to all nations, to relay God's message, teach them principles of virteous life. SO there was not only one single spiritual leader, but many including Jesus (pbuh). But at that particular time when prophet Muhammad (pbuh), there was no spiritual leader (if you know of one, let me know), people had deviated from the path.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:bkismat wrote:@Alpha I asked you a question and you have completely ignored it so I will ask again. If a Muslim woman married a Christian man as in this case is she committing adultery and fornication? @bkismat a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man, is not a marriage. It is adultery. They are committing adultery. If they want to have a marriage, this man has to accept shahadah (say there is no one worthy of worship but Allah alone) and get re-married again. Inconsistency again. The man should also be killed. Or is it discriminating? Or do you want to say that though the man has committed adultery he hasn't committed apostasy? It must follow. But can this be proven? Your laws are arbitrary and unjust. @tycho where did I say the man to be killed above? You didn't, and haven't mentioned the killing of the man. And that's why you and the laws in Sudan, or Islam are inconsistent. Because if the man has committed adultery, why not apostasy? Oh, I see now. My mistake. What did the man do? Where does the man comes in the treason committed by the woman? Was the man married? If yes, then he commits adultery according to Christianity, and Christians should tell us why they didn't kill the man according to Deuteronomy 22.
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