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Sudan women face death for Christianity
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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muganda wrote:AlphDoti wrote:muganda wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muganda, you said she's Christian, right? Please define "evil" and "sin" in terms of Christianity. Then tell me if you have the following in your Bible. And if I need holy Spirit to understand the English in the text, tell me also. Indeed she said 'she is a Christian'  Bwana @AlphDoti, not all truth is to be found in my Bible or the Quran. The Milky Way for example is not mentioned once, yet it exists with absolute certainty. Admonitions that advocate we live as barbarians in 2014 are "sublime to the ignorant, useful to rulers, and ridiculous to the wise". One wonders why God gave man reason, intellect, and will! Why skew our beliefs to profess what we despise, kill, hate; is this the purpose of religion? In Christianity, this is the greatest command: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” @muganda so you believe in the verse: Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. Hehehe  @AlphDoti , you obviously did not internalise my post. One last time... If my father told me to kill my brother because he became an atheist, I would not. And neither would you kill your son for the same reason - that I'm sure of. Whatever the verse in the Torah said, or whatever the government said, there is simply a better way. And it is wrong in 2014, that Mariam Yahya Ibrahim is not given the freedom to chose her faith. And as God is my witness, if her and her unborn child were put to death for being Christian in 2014, her prosecutors will face the Last Judgement, because they know in their hearts that it is wrong. Who is putting her unborn child to death? Isn't the Bible which says put them to death. So there is something else better than what your Bible says? So you don't really mean what you were trying to quote, you don't really mean to follow it. Quoting the Bible is just a show. Because why pretend to quote the Bible then you turn around say you will follow your own life anyway! You don't really believe that the Bible is the word of God. Everything is there for adornment for beautification.Things that Jesus (pbuh) said, or God said, no Christian is prepared to pay attention or follow or do that. And now you want the women to remove their clothes and commit adultery.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:...Besides that, this sentencing presents inconsistency to Islam itself.
I do not wish to trade insults, but I wish to put up a defense for this lady, and all humanity. Even if only in wazua. @tycho, let us do this. Please show me the inconsistency. @AlphDoti, perhaps you have not realized it, but our conversation so far has been focused on proving this. And so far I have done my duty. I have been waiting for you to respond. Kindly. Show me the inconsistency you referred to above. In terms of words not in sets. We will handle the sets later. If two systems can be distinguished, then by implication there must be a third system that holds the two systems, and as such, the two systems being distinguished must be subsystems of the third system. And hence neither of the contending systems can claim completeness and consistency. And if any of the contending systems is defined by truth, in terms of completeness and consistency, then it must be apparent to those who labor for truth. So again my brother @tycho I ask you, please show me, even one inconsistency in Islam as you allege above. Using what I have posted above. And taking your response. I will put a general observation and then a particular example. If Islam negates what can be logically proven, then it doesn't recognize reason. But it claims reason. Therefore it's inconsistent. Particularly you @AlphDoti, deliberately choose not to follow a reasonable method and chooses to either defend or assert. But you claim to be reasonable. Therefore you are inconsistent.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:muganda wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muganda, you said she's Christian, right? Please define "evil" and "sin" in terms of Christianity. Then tell me if you have the following in your Bible. And if I need holy Spirit to understand the English in the text, tell me also. Indeed she said 'she is a Christian' Bwana @AlphDoti, not all truth is to be found in my Bible or the Quran. The Milky Way for example is not mentioned once, yet it exists with absolute certainty. Admonitions that advocate we live as barbarians in 2014 are "sublime to the ignorant, useful to rulers, and ridiculous to the wise". One wonders why God gave man reason, intellect, and will! Why skew our beliefs to profess what we despise, kill, hate; is this the purpose of religion? In Christianity, this is the greatest command: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” @muganda so you believe in the verse: Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. Distance from this tragic situation is allowing us the luxury of winded discussions. So I will pose one question to you @AlphaDoti and insist that you answer directly and simply: If you were Sudanese and this woman was your sister, would you execute her on the charge of apostacy? (Now it is only fair that I answer as well. I would not, regardless of what quoted texts in the Bible say. I would rather wait to answer to God Himself rather than take 2 lives). Now I await your answer. You too @guru267, if you don't mind.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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quicksand wrote:AlphDoti wrote:muganda wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muganda, you said she's Christian, right? Please define "evil" and "sin" in terms of Christianity. Then tell me if you have the following in your Bible. And if I need holy Spirit to understand the English in the text, tell me also. Indeed she said 'she is a Christian' Bwana @AlphDoti, not all truth is to be found in my Bible or the Quran. The Milky Way for example is not mentioned once, yet it exists with absolute certainty. Admonitions that advocate we live as barbarians in 2014 are "sublime to the ignorant, useful to rulers, and ridiculous to the wise". One wonders why God gave man reason, intellect, and will! Why skew our beliefs to profess what we despise, kill, hate; is this the purpose of religion? In Christianity, this is the greatest command: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” @muganda so you believe in the verse: Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. Distance from this tragic situation is allowing us the luxury of winded discussions. So I will pose one question to you @AlphaDoti and insist that you answer directly and simply: If you were Sudanese and this woman was your sister, would you execute her on the charge of apostacy? (Now it is only fair that I answer as well. I would not, regardless of what quoted texts in the Bible say. I would rather wait to answer to God Himself rather than take 2 lives). Now I await your answer. You too @guru267, if you don't mind My aswere is: Yes, I would! How does she get pregnant without a husband ( read not married)! If you're Christian, then I tell you even your God (my God too, but I emphasize the Bible here) Says that such crimes are punishable. But you preach water and drink wine. Let me give you a story to show you fairness and Justice in Islam. PLEASE READ THE STORY BELOWThe Messenger of God, Muhammad (pbuh) was just and fair in every aspect of his life and in the application of the religion. Hadith says: "One time, a woman from a rich family, with good connections was found guilty of theft. For the prestige of her tribe, some prominent people interceded to save her from punishment. The Prophet refused to condone the crime and expressed displeasure saying: "Many a community ruined itself in the past as they only punished the poor and ignored the offences of the exalted. By Allah, if Muhammad's (My) daughter Faatimah would have committed theft, her hand would have been severed." The Jews, in spite of their hostility to the Prophet were so impressed by his impartiality and sense of justice. They started bringing their cases to him and he decided them according to Jewish law. Evidence: That's why in Islamic countries:- crime rate is the lowest - poverty is the lowest (obligatory charity) - adultery is lowest - mipango wa kandos is lowest - cases of HIV is lowest - etc 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:...Besides that, this sentencing presents inconsistency to Islam itself.
I do not wish to trade insults, but I wish to put up a defense for this lady, and all humanity. Even if only in wazua. @tycho, let us do this. Please show me the inconsistency. @AlphDoti, perhaps you have not realized it, but our conversation so far has been focused on proving this. And so far I have done my duty. I have been waiting for you to respond. Kindly. Show me the inconsistency you referred to above. In terms of words not in sets. We will handle the sets later. If two systems can be distinguished, then by implication there must be a third system that holds the two systems, and as such, the two systems being distinguished must be subsystems of the third system. And hence neither of the contending systems can claim completeness and consistency. And if any of the contending systems is defined by truth, in terms of completeness and consistency, then it must be apparent to those who labor for truth. So again my brother @tycho I ask you, please show me, even one inconsistency in Islam as you allege above. Using what I have posted above. And taking your response. I will put a general observation and then a particular example. If Islam negates what can be logically proven, then it doesn't recognize reason. But it claims reason. Therefore it's inconsistent. Particularly you @AlphDoti, deliberately choose not to follow a reasonable method and chooses to either defend or assert. But you claim to be reasonable. Therefore you are inconsistent. @tycho, what has Islam negated? Who logically proved, when, where?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,908
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
So again my brother @tycho I ask you, please show me, even one inconsistency in Islam as you allege above.
Using what I have posted above. And taking your response. I will put a general observation and then a particular example. If Islam negates what can be logically proven, then it doesn't recognize reason. But it claims reason. Therefore it's inconsistent. Particularly you @AlphDoti, deliberately choose not to follow a reasonable method and chooses to either defend or assert. But you claim to be reasonable. Therefore you are inconsistent. @tycho, what has Islam negated? Who logically proved, when, where? Simple inconsistency really: Deuteronomy 13:6 • A Jew would put his neighbour to death for converting to Christianity, Saul did. • A Catholic would put a Protestant to death and vice-versa: St Thomas Moore, Cayetano Ripoll • A Muslim in Sudan would put a pregnant woman to death for converting to Christianity; or like Mahmoud Mohammed Taha for questioning Sharia Law All these religions would cheerfully go against Exodus 20 – the 3rd and 7th commandment – in the name of the same God while reciting the same Deuteronomy 13:6... And you call that truth! Logically.. I destroys C, C destroys I; I harms some I, C harms some C; while quoting the very same C1We need discernment.
The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)
Surely the worst of beasts in God's sight are those that are deaf and dumb and do not reason. (Surat 8:22)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:quicksand wrote:AlphDoti wrote:muganda wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muganda, you said she's Christian, right? Please define "evil" and "sin" in terms of Christianity. Then tell me if you have the following in your Bible. And if I need holy Spirit to understand the English in the text, tell me also. Indeed she said 'she is a Christian' Bwana @AlphDoti, not all truth is to be found in my Bible or the Quran. The Milky Way for example is not mentioned once, yet it exists with absolute certainty. Admonitions that advocate we live as barbarians in 2014 are "sublime to the ignorant, useful to rulers, and ridiculous to the wise". One wonders why God gave man reason, intellect, and will! Why skew our beliefs to profess what we despise, kill, hate; is this the purpose of religion? In Christianity, this is the greatest command: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” @muganda so you believe in the verse: Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. Distance from this tragic situation is allowing us the luxury of winded discussions. So I will pose one question to you @AlphaDoti and insist that you answer directly and simply: If you were Sudanese and this woman was your sister, would you execute her on the charge of apostacy? (Now it is only fair that I answer as well. I would not, regardless of what quoted texts in the Bible say. I would rather wait to answer to God Himself rather than take 2 lives). Now I await your answer. You too @guru267, if you don't mind My aswere is: Yes, I would! How does she get pregnant without a husband (read not married)!If you're Christian, then I tell you even your God (my God too, but I emphasize the Bible here) Says that such crimes are punishable. But you preach water and drink wine. Let me give you a story to show you fairness and Justice in Islam. PLEASE READ THE STORY BELOWThe Messenger of God, Muhammad (pbuh) was just and fair in every aspect of his life and in the application of the religion. Hadith says: "One time, a woman from a rich family, with good connections was found guilty of theft. For the prestige of her tribe, some prominent people interceded to save her from punishment. The Prophet refused to condone the crime and expressed displeasure saying: "Many a community ruined itself in the past as they only punished the poor and ignored the offences of the exalted. By Allah, if Muhammad's (My) daughter Faatimah would have committed theft, her hand would have been severed." The Jews, in spite of their hostility to the Prophet were so impressed by his impartiality and sense of justice. They started bringing their cases to him and he decided them according to Jewish law. Evidence: That's why in Islamic countries:- crime rate is the lowest - poverty is the lowest (obligatory charity) - adultery is lowest - mipango wa kandos is lowest - cases of HIV is lowest - etc I have your answer. The rest about fairness or lack of it in Islam I am not that interested in. I wanted to determine if you @AlphDoti, are a man of compassion, and whether your assertions of "there is no compulsion" hold conviction or are hollow. And indeed they are hollow, cause if you had conviction in them, you would acknowledge that she had left jurisdiction of Islam and therefore have no basis to say her marriage was void. And by analysing your singular response, I can say there is a systemic lack of compassion among adherents, tendency to be quickly offended, and to swiftly reach for violent retributions to harm others, women and children not spared - You are an enlightened man, and there is a way of mercy and. forgiveness (as Mohammed let the Bedouin go unharmed - no compulsion, remember?), yet you DO NOT CHOOSE IT. You made the same appalling choice as the dude in backwater Sudan did. Your peace message therefore rings hollow, because you do not live it. Peace is not just for Muslims, it should be for all inhabitants of Earth. Without compassion, you have no humanity; Without humanity, religion is irrelevant.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:
@muganda so you believe in the verse:
Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
I leave for a few minutes and Alphdoti cannot help but go back to square one? If Deuteronomy 13 should be implemented, as I discussed with guru, then verse 5 should also be implemented and the first casualty will be mohammed a dreamer of dreams who taught people they cannot and should not have a God who redeems. Dig him up and do the needful, for symbolic purposes. Then we can see how to do verse 6. Fair?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:John 14: 13-14 shows us who we pray to and through. You can pray to Christ the prophet in peace just as long as you please leave Islam and Muhammad out of your inferiority complexes and envy! here ypu go again into ad hominem arguments when you don't like what scriptures state I don't contribute to these threads before you guys start dragging Christianity into every ill facing Islam!! So for now you can Worship Christ the prophet in peace until the next Christian starts a thread insulting Islam. The Christ vs a dead prophet! I will grant you peace too!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:...Besides that, this sentencing presents inconsistency to Islam itself.
I do not wish to trade insults, but I wish to put up a defense for this lady, and all humanity. Even if only in wazua. @tycho, let us do this. Please show me the inconsistency. @AlphDoti, perhaps you have not realized it, but our conversation so far has been focused on proving this. And so far I have done my duty. I have been waiting for you to respond. Kindly. Show me the inconsistency you referred to above. In terms of words not in sets. We will handle the sets later. If it must be repeated ,,,,,, Alphdoti "That is the day when no soul can help another soul, and all decisions, on that day, will belong to God alone." 82:19 "You (Muhammad) have no say in the matter; He may either redeem them, or He may punish them; for they are transgressors." 3:128 "You have come to Us each on his own, just as We created you the first time, and you have left behind what We had provided for you. We do not see with you your intercessors whom you claimed were 'shurakaa' (partners) among you. All your means have been cut off and that which you have claimed has deserted you." 6:94 "O you who believe, you shall give to charity from the provisions we have given to you, before a day comes where there is no trade, no nepotism, and no intercession. The disbelievers are the unjust." 2:254 There is no shortage of quotes that denounces intercession. 1. But apparently, mohammed will intercede only for alphdoti and guru on this day of kiama when its expressly stated there will be no intercession. 2. Oh, that is on that day. Before that day, intercession continues. 3. But Alphdoti says there is no intercession ,,,,,,, To believe that anyone, other than God, can intercede on our behalf to have our sins forgiven or our wishes fulfilled, is to set up partners with God. This is an act of 'shirk'. Allah will forgive all sins except shirk. Our two local mushirks, Alphdoti and guru will have it hot on that day when Mohammed first of all denounces them then they are tossed in to drink the hot water.
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