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Sudan women face death for Christianity
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:After railing against other people for believing on the idea of a lawyer, an advocate, all of a sudden we agree unanimously that we also needs one! We discover these truths in our very own koran and the hadithis seem to agree. That's where your wrong! In Christianity intercession does not involve God's permission.. its a guarantee! In Christianity the intercessors are worshiped!  So unlike Muhammad who is nothing but a simple lawyer who can even be jailed by the judge, Christians have made Jesus and Mary into judges EQUAL to God! In Christianity God's throne looks like a supreme court bench Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Jus Blazin wrote:Wow, one can actually get a headache from all this bashing and counter-bashing or confusion in trying to understand Islam and Christianity. But it doesn't make sense. There are many striking similarities between these two religions, many beliefs. Many prophets of old are mentioned in the two books. Jesus is considered the greatest prophet by Muslims and the Messiah by Christians, there's belief in Adam, Moses, Abraham, Noah, the virgin birth...we could go on and on. So why do some followers of these two religions hate each other that much, when, in actual sense they believe in the same God!? When the Bible and the Quran are similar in many teachings? It's because of the human mind, and in extension 'society' works. These clashing ideas are social constructs in certain times, and as times change and human interactions increase, these ideas will tend to clash due to lack of an integrating idea.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:After railing against other people for believing on the idea of a lawyer, an advocate, all of a sudden we agree unanimously that we also needs one! We discover these truths in our very own koran and the hadithis seem to agree. That's where your wrong! In Christianity intercession does not involve God's permission.. its a guarantee! In Christianity the intercessors are worshiped! So unlike Muhammad who is nothing but a simple lawyer who can even be jailed by the judge, Christians have made Jesus and Mary into judges EQUAL to God! In Christianity God's throne looks like a supreme court bench There are certain to be theological differences even within religions. And in a case like this I'd wish we appreciate common grounds, and approach the difference as a community. All destined for heaven.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
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guru267 wrote:In Christianity the intercessors are worshiped! FALSESo unlike Muhammad who is nothing but a simple lawyer who can even be jailed by the judge, Christians have made Jesus and Mary into judges EQUAL to God! FALSEIf mary sinned like any other person,then judgement awaits her.mary was just a a vessel used to deliver the messiah,she wasn't the messiah. And Jesus did not worship her either.
The correct order is this.We worship GOD through JESUS by the power of the spirit.
The Spirit of God makes Intercessions for us. We do not worship the Spirit.
I am sorry but religion creates falsehoods.. In Christianity God's throne looks like a supreme court bench. Yes the throne of Grace doubles up as the throne of Judgement. We are not wild animals roaming the earth without laws.
But let no man deceive you.Religion is man's ways of trying to reach God.
Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/Hindu/African Traditions ALL of them are man's idea.
We conflict because there is no Godliness in religion.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:After railing against other people for believing on the idea of a lawyer, an advocate, all of a sudden we agree unanimously that we also needs one! We discover these truths in our very own koran and the hadithis seem to agree. That's where your wrong! In Christianity intercession does not involve God's permission.. its a guarantee! In Christianity the intercessors are worshiped! So unlike Muhammad who is nothing but a simple lawyer who can even be jailed by the judge, Christians have made Jesus and Mary into judges EQUAL to God! In Christianity God's throne looks like a supreme court bench Guru, Alphdoti, how do you spell intercessor? Is it I-N-T-E-R-C-E-S-S-O-R? Intercessor - a negotiator who acts as a link between parties, between you and allah. I know it is a bitter pill for you to swallow that the secret is out that you guys also have an intercessor and there goes into the drain your high ground and vilification of others' intercessor. From now on you can only look at how others' intercessor works and does his intercession and not why they have an intercessor in the first place when allah is there. Why are you guys belittling yourselves? Your facade is crumbling bit by bit. You guys need an intercessor! Yes, and thats about the best news I have had from you guys ever. Hard work indeed pays off.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
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guru267 wrote:nakujua wrote:guru267 wrote:nakujua wrote:guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:You can imagine having to die for refusing to convert to the worship of Muhammad. So who worships Muhammad?? Who even prays to Muhammad?? Why in God's name would anyone pray to a man who ate, slept, and took a dump just like themselves?? Muslims only worship the creator of the heavens and earth.. the creator of all that is seen and unseen! Did I get that right, ama is someone comparing Muhammad to themselves. Muhammad was flesh and bones like you and me... Not worthy of worship! Or is it that you think Jesus never used to take dumps after eating!? shida yako is bringing in Jesus in all your discussions - anyway, I might be wrong, I can't read your mind but I just thought your reference was a bit dis respectful especially directed towards such an important individual in history. When did it become disrespectful to take a dump?? Taking a dump is the one of the main human things to consider when choosing who to worship or not! God has never and will never take a dump! I am simply pointing out that I personally cannot worship anyone who has taken a dump before and that includes Muhammad or Jesus!  Sorry but this discussion is hilarious!!!!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:Anyway, back to Koran and in hadithi found in Bukhari, did not Mohammed say he himself does not know what allah will do to him? 46:8,9. Did not Mohammed himself say to akina Manaf, Safiya and Fatima that he, mohammed, cannot save them from Allah's punishment?
Over to you. Now who has said Muhammad will save us from anything?? Everyone will be pleading to be saved from the Hellfire on judgement day! Muhammad will prostrate in front of God begging him to save his followers but the choice to actually save remains with Allah! How then is he equal to Allah?? No partnership there... no saving there... All I see Muhammad doing is a whole lot of begging like a proper servant should! But then again I'm talking to someone who believes that a man who said he was a servant to the father is actually equal to the father! @muriel, the above is correct. On that DAY, all the prophets will be there, including Jesus Christ (pbuh). They will be like witness in front of Allah. And surely, the prophet will cry saying "Ya! Allah! Ya! Ummat! My followers!". And who are his followers? All of us who were born after his message until the end of world. You included. Whatever it is, a lawyer is needed when the time for reckoning comes. That is the bottom line. The only line. Yaani, do I have to work this hard to bring out these concessions? I will if I must. Its my bounden duty. After railing against other people for believing on the idea of a lawyer, an advocate, all of a sudden we agree unanimously that we also needs one! We discover these truths in our very own koran and the hadithis seem to agree. But, despite the egg still on our face we are still twisting and turning as I can see. While at it, bear in mind you have not reconciled other contradictions. If you guys were christians, I would tell you now is the time for bible and bible only, but for you I would tell you koran and hadiths only. No personal conjencture. Oh, I appreciate the extinguished grandiose. Mulianza na mioto ,,,,,,,,, @muriel, please we don't agree in the sense that you have in Christianity. Read my post properly. You see the Quran insists in many, many places that 'wasila' is haram. One place it says: "...to whom Allah will give permission on the day of judgement."Therefore, we make dua asking Allah to make the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to intercede on the day of Judgement. In this world, if you have to ask for help, ask to Allah directly, ultimate help. Allah says in sura Fatiha chapter 1:5: " Thee alone do we worship, and Thine alone aid we seek." Sura chapter 40:60: " And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer)" This is direct! Why do you require someone intermediary? Why? For example, supposed your mother has a heart problem (God save us from earthly problems). And you know number one heart specialist is in India. And this specialist says anyone who comes to me directly I'll give free treatment. Will you go to second best? Answer is no. Number is there why do you go for second best? So Allah is there, he can here a thousand people speaking at the same time, a million people. It seems muslims are spoilt for choice. Or is it contradictions. Not only here but in other themes as well. 1. One will righteously proclaim "Peace" while the other also righteously proclaim "Jihad". 2. One will righteously proclaim "no intercessor" while the other also righteously proclaim "intercessor" 3. Another will righteously proclaim "No compulsion" while the other also righteously proclaim "murtid". Contradictions. Choice.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:It seems muslims are spoilt for choice. Or is it contradictions. Not only here but in other themes as well.
1. One will righteously proclaim "Peace" while the other also righteously proclaim "Jihad".
2. One will righteously proclaim "no intercessor" while the other also righteously proclaim "intercessor"
3. Another will righteously proclaim "No compulsion" while the other also righteously proclaim "murtid".
Contradictions. Choice. Stop trying to twist. Don't yearn to having final say. MUSLIMS DON'T PRAY THROUGH SOMEONE TO REACH ALLAH.If you have evidence to the contrary let me know. @guru is talking about Judgement Day. Is that clear? I'M SAYING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT JUDGEMENT DAY.That day, the prophet will pray to God for His mercy on us. Right now, the prophet is dead. He does not pray for anybody. MUSLIMS PRAY DIRECTLY TO ALLAH WITHOUT INTERCESSOR.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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@AlphDoti, @guru, @Muriel, @Lolest, @et al, if Muslims, Christians and Jews believe in the same God, if they are all classified as Abrahamic religions, if all major prophets who passed the message are found in these religions, then the question of which religion is the truth becomes void. They are all the truth. The difference is human nature in interpretation and understanding, leading to differences in beliefs. My point is, this back and forth we are having here will only create protagonists and antagonists where there's actually supposed to be none. Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,908
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Jus Blazin wrote:@AlphDoti, @guru, @Muriel, @Lolest, @et al, if Muslims, Christians and Jews believe in the same God, if they are all classified as Abrahamic religions, if all major prophets who passed the message are found in these religions, then the question of which religion is the truth becomes void. They are all the truth. The difference is human nature in interpretation and understanding, leading to differences in beliefs.
My point is, this back and forth we are having here will only create protagonists and antagonists where there's actually supposed to be none. Quite profound @Jus Blazin. Over 4,200 religions in the world classified into 4 major + 10 medium groups, and we can't find harmony.  Religion is very divisive. Who can blame the 1.1bn irreligious/non-affiliated. If Abrahmic adherents fight so bitterly, what would they say to a Hindu or Budhhist? Human nature: seems it would be a bare knuckles fight between the 11 main branches of Christianity or 4 main sects in Islam.
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