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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:How logical is it to call unto a created man like mohammed who called unto the creator allah god almighty?
I beg of you to contradict this that will prove to me then that Islam is indeed self contradictory.
The floor is yours. Your emotions and envy are either making you retarded or lose understanding of English!! By asking Allah (swt) to allow Muhammad (saw) to intercede for us I am PRAYING TO ALLAH not Muhammad! Meaning Allah can reject or accept your request for intercession but only HE is the final boss and has final say! Mushriks on the otherhand actually pray directly to the dead man or woman for a guaranteed intercession! eg "Holy Mary, mother of God pray for us sinners now and the hour of hour death" In Islam it is a great sin to pray to Muhammad! Mushirk, you were wondering how much I know about Islam? You tell me. You have taken great pains to avoid appearing like you are contradicting me (as I hoped) but I don't think you have agreed with me. You must seek help, including intercession, from no one but Allah — regardless of the status of the person through whom you are appealing. Allah has no partner. Not so? Even then in intercession. You say you are praying to allah - to include or allow mohammed. Isnt allah the only one you should put all your trust in? 67:29. What makes you think if you trust more in mohammed to intercede for you in dua allah will be amused. Kiama is coming, just wait. You will see! In hadithi mohammed himself refers you to allah. Allah is sufficient for you, 3:173. Yet here you are asking allah for mohammed help in intercession as if allah is not that sufficient. Do you think this is some kind of ping pong game? Allah-mohammed, Allah-mohammed ,,,,,, You must avoid any kind of shirk in praying for help including intercession. Clearly you are not avoiding, any kind of shirk, mushirk. Any kind! Remember kiama, dada. That one about Mary I do not subscribe to it. Muganda (who also told you some battles are worth loosing) or someone else can and should take it up. But in any case, why are you criticizing it when you both use beads?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:You can imagine having to die for refusing to convert to the worship of Muhammad. So who worships Muhammad?? Who even prays to Muhammad?? Why in God's name would anyone pray to a man who ate, slept, and took a dump just like themselves?? Muslims only worship the creator of the heavens and earth.. the creator of all that is seen and unseen! Did I get that right, ama is someone comparing Muhammad to themselves.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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So sad that she will have to die....she's a medical doctor. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:Allah has no partner. Not so? Even then in intercession.
In hadithi mohammed himself refers you to allah. Allah is sufficient for you, 3:173. Yet here you are asking allah for mohammed help in intercession as if allah is not that sufficient. Its really hillarious arguing with an ignorant person! Did you at least do form 4 business studies? Do you understand what a partnership means? If you and I are partners it means that anyone of us can transact on behalf of the business at any time without need for permission.. But If I can only transact after you give me permission then we are not partners but you are actually my boss! So if Muhammad can only intercede for us after Allah says so then Allah is his boss and they are not partners... GET IT! Muslims only trust the Almighty to give permission to intercede! If Allah is angry with you on Qiyamah would you plead for yourself or wouldn't you want him to allow someone who knows him better than you to argue your case or to plead for you! Like a lawyer... Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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nakujua wrote:guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:You can imagine having to die for refusing to convert to the worship of Muhammad. So who worships Muhammad?? Who even prays to Muhammad?? Why in God's name would anyone pray to a man who ate, slept, and took a dump just like themselves?? Muslims only worship the creator of the heavens and earth.. the creator of all that is seen and unseen! Did I get that right, ama is someone comparing Muhammad to themselves. Muhammad was flesh and bones like you and me... Not worthy of worship! Or is it that you think Jesus never used to take dumps after eating!? Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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jaggernaut wrote:So sad that she will have to die....she's a medical doctor. All law should be questionable, and justice be global and universal. We must work against such arbitrary and unjust rule.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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guru267 wrote:nakujua wrote:guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:You can imagine having to die for refusing to convert to the worship of Muhammad. So who worships Muhammad?? Who even prays to Muhammad?? Why in God's name would anyone pray to a man who ate, slept, and took a dump just like themselves?? Muslims only worship the creator of the heavens and earth.. the creator of all that is seen and unseen! Did I get that right, ama is someone comparing Muhammad to themselves. Muhammad was flesh and bones like you and me... Not worthy of worship! Or is it that you think Jesus never used to take dumps after eating!? shida yako is bringing in Jesus in all your discussions - anyway, I might be wrong, I can't read your mind but I just thought your reference was a bit dis respectful especially directed towards such an important individual in history.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:Allah has no partner. Not so? Even then in intercession.
In hadithi mohammed himself refers you to allah. Allah is sufficient for you, 3:173. Yet here you are asking allah for mohammed help in intercession as if allah is not that sufficient. Its really hillarious arguing with an ignorant person! Did you at least do form 4 business studies? Do you understand what a partnership means? If you and I are partners it means that anyone of us can transact on behalf of the business at any time without need for permission.. But If I can only transact after you give me permission then we are not partners but you are actually my boss! So if Muhammad can only intercede for us after Allah says so then Allah is his boss and they are not partners... GET IT! Muslims only trust the Almighty to give permission to intercede! If Allah is angry with you on Qiyamah would you plead for yourself or wouldn't you want him to allow someone who knows him better than you to argue your case or to plead for you! Like a lawyer... It indeed is hilarious to find out that after a lifetime of bashing the christians for claiming to have an advocate you find you have to do the same thing they have been doing - having an advocate! A lawyer!!! I will give you A for effort in attempting to reconcile these contradictions in Islam, but for content, well, F. Anyway, back to Koran and in hadithi found in Bukhari, did not Mohammed say he himself does not know what allah will do to him? 46:8,9. Did not Mohammed himself say to akina Manaf, Safiya and Fatima that he, mohammed, cannot save them from Allah's punishment? Over to you.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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@guru and @muriel, please allow me to interrupt.
I don't think there is any verse which says people to ask for intercession in the Quran. Or did you mean the prophet will intercede to Allah (God Almighty) on the day of Judgement?
Please tell @muriel that you are talking about the future. You are talking about the Qiyama (the Day of Judgement).
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:Allah has no partner. Not so? Even then in intercession.
In hadithi mohammed himself refers you to allah. Allah is sufficient for you, 3:173. Yet here you are asking allah for mohammed help in intercession as if allah is not that sufficient. Its really hillarious arguing with an ignorant person! Did you at least do form 4 business studies? Do you understand what a partnership means? If you and I are partners it means that anyone of us can transact on behalf of the business at any time without need for permission.. But If I can only transact after you give me permission then we are not partners but you are actually my boss! So if Muhammad can only intercede for us after Allah says so then Allah is his boss and they are not partners... GET IT! Muslims only trust the Almighty to give permission to intercede! If Allah is angry with you on Qiyamah would you plead for yourself or wouldn't you want him to allow someone who knows him better than you to argue your case or to plead for you! Like a lawyer... It indeed is hilarious to find out that after a lifetime of bashing the christians for claiming to have an advocate you find you have to do the same thing they have been doing - having an advocate! A lawyer!!! I will give you A for effort in attempting to reconcile these contradictions in Islam, but for content, well, F. Anyway, back to Koran and in hadithi found in Bukhari, did not Mohammed say he himself does not know what allah will do to him? 46:8,9. Did not Mohammed himself say to akina Manaf, Safiya and Fatima that he, mohammed, cannot save them from Allah's punishment? Over to you. @muriel you see if any person or any scholar tells you something, ask for proof. Allah says in sura Baqara chapter 2:111 Say: " Produce your proof if ye are truthful." Therefore, whatever any one else says does not matter, what God says carries weight. For example Allah says in sura Ma'idah chapter 5:90 says: " don't have alcohol". If a scholar says have alcohol, then his words have no value, he is wrong. What he says carries no weight if there is no evidence. Therefore, any scholar told you anything, you ask for proof. @guru please give us evidence.
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