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Sudan women face death for Christianity
Muriel
#51 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 2:34:16 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
Danger of being bogged down here.

So the bible says kill. Somehow, someway, christians don't kill their 'deserters'. Some others, 'pious' ones decide to kill their deserters deriving authenticity from the christian bible.

Somehow, someway, they have not seen the missing link.

Talk of failing to achieve lift off at the end of the runway. Or going on in a straight line when the road has beaten a corner!

Thats Islam for you! Thought ended with Khadija.



For a moment I thought you were talking of kdf deserters.



Ah, brother. No. smile Theirs belongs to Caesar.
Muriel
#52 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 2:55:53 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
In a hadithi, someone visited mohammed's grave to ask for forgiveness from allah. Mohammed appeared to the narrator in a dream and told him to tell the iniquirer allah had forgiven him. Dreams, right.

All would be fine and well until one reads in the koran that mohammed cannot make the dead to hear! Even Aisha states so in al bukhari. Bear in mind also that at times mohammed insists he is only mortal like any other. Even allah tells him off he is a sinner.

Yet his followers today insist he cannot save anyone from his sins yet he is still also capable of mediating the forgiveness of sins.

Monotheism - the greatest farce contradictory Islam has pulled on the simple folk.
muganda
#53 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 3:03:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,908
Aaah @tycho, true seeker, you have stumbled on the truth.

So the Torah teaches an eye for an eye 1280 BC
In 30 AD we learn it was not this way in the beginning
To others in 630 AD they reaffirm and call it a way of peace.

There is but one Judge.

In 2014, it is false to knowingly kill a brother who disagrees with the religion that you preach, and the way you preach it. In modern times, many Islamic scholars oppose death for apostasy citing Quran, hadith etc.

tycho wrote:
guru267 wrote:
tycho wrote:

Your argument runs like this; if Christians follow the 'Torah' like the Muslims do, then they should kill the girl for committing apostacy against Christian faith by converting to Christianity


Use your brain if you have one!

It simply means the Law of Moses allows Christians to kill anyone who leaves the religion!

Jesus and Muhammad basically showed another way!

But since they both accepted the laws of Moses then no one is going to hell for killing apostates!


That is, there's such a law, among the laws of Moses which gives equal outcomes whether obeyed or disobeyed. If this isn't arbitrary what is?

By the way, why is it that you have now resulted to dehumanizing others? Am on to this conversation with noble and just intention. Even a loving one. Or have I offended you?

Lolest!
#54 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 3:04:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
guru267 wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
For how else can someone believe what that fella came up with? Even die for it? Ati while in Mecca, he was somehow transported to Jerusalem, then to heaven, spoke to God and led Jesus, Moses, Abraham and other prophets in prayer. And for this, Muslims claim Jerusalem? ORAIT


Its easier than believing some random Christian murderer who claims he has the right to change all of Jesus teachings because he thought he saw Jesus on his way to Damascus to kill more Christians!

At least Muhammad's companions saw Angel Gabriel!


Reminds me of apparitions-those things Catholics claim to see in different places

Naskia Maria ameonekana by many people in Murang'a
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#55 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 3:07:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
guru267 wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
very tricky for people who hold that Jesus a mere prophet. He said he had come to fulfill the law. Fulfill..fulfill...fulfill...ponder that. And consider reading Romans 8 first few verses. And third chapter of John...fulfill...fulfill


Jesus is the Messiah and the Christ. The Holy Spirit of God.

And he did not abolish or change the law of Moses according to Matt 5:17

Fulfilling does not mean changing..

He probably said it was better not to kill apostates but he did not say anyone is going to Hell for killing apostates!

he did not abolish, he FULFILLED it
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#56 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 3:09:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
guru267 wrote:
Christians better start believing in the Torah otherwise they should be straight and detest the Old Testament and even rebuke it the same way they do the Qur'an!

Otherwise leave the Qur'an and Islam alone...

There is nothing you can quote here from the Qur'an that is not in your Bible... So.. Endelea!!

You guys are always defending those who misuse your book

When fellows do that on our side, we rebuke them
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
guru267
#57 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 6:14:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
He then makes himself a mediator, making himself as important as approaching him is synonymous with invoking Allah. Yes. He has made himself Allah's partner sharing Allah's prerogatives such as forgiveness of sins which is explicitly a divine function.

I say put Mohammed to death, posthumously.


You continue to prove how much of NOTHING you know about Islam! Laughing out loudly

Unlike Christians, Muslims first have to ask God for permission to allow Jesus/Muhammad to intercede for us.

The problem is that Christians think that calling on a man or woman without God's permission will be of any use to them!

How logical is it to call unto a created man like Jesus who called unto the creator God Almighty??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
guru267
#58 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 6:15:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
very tricky for people who hold that Jesus a mere prophet. He said he had come to fulfill the law. Fulfill..fulfill...fulfill...ponder that. And consider reading Romans 8 first few verses. And third chapter of John...fulfill...fulfill


Jesus is the Messiah and the Christ. The Holy Spirit of God.

And he did not abolish or change the law of Moses according to Matt 5:17

Fulfilling does not mean changing..

He probably said it was better not to kill apostates but he did not say anyone is going to Hell for killing apostates!

he did not abolish, he FULFILLED it


If he did not change the law or he did not abolish it then kindly explain to me what "fulfilling" it means??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
guru267
#59 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 6:20:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
For how else can someone believe what that fella came up with? Even die for it? Ati while in Mecca, he was somehow transported to Jerusalem, then to heaven, spoke to God and led Jesus, Moses, Abraham and other prophets in prayer. And for this, Muslims claim Jerusalem? ORAIT


Its easier than believing some random Christian murderer who claims he has the right to change all of Jesus teachings because he thought he saw Jesus on his way to Damascus to kill more Christians!

At least Muhammad's companions saw Angel Gabriel!


Reminds me of apparitions-those things Catholics claim to see in different places

Naskia Maria ameonekana by many people in Murang'a


Lucky for us Muslims the apparition of Angel Gabriel did not involve light!

The light that blinded Paul was Lucifer masquerading as Jesus Sad

Lucifer came into the church and altered Jesus teaching and foundation through Paul and dispersed the church into 30,000 denominations... A divided house thanks to the biggest deceiver of them all Christian slayer Sad

The united house of Islam will always continue to grow!

Thank God Muhammad came to fix Paul's mess otherwise we would all be doomed to worshiping men, women, statues and crosses Sad
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
AlphDoti
#60 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 6:31:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
@loless let me say mine. Basically.

The question to many of you is what if someone wants to come out of Islam?

First, the Quran clearly mentions in sura Baqarah chapter 2 verse 256:
"There is no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out from error"

So when someone wants to convert from Islam to any other religion. It is fine, in the hereafter, he will be among the losers.

Now as far as death penalty is concerned, only if that person after converting if he propagates new faith and speaks against Islam, then the penalty is there. This is the same law, similar law in most countries including Kenya. There is something called apostasy in Kenya. Also in America.

For example in Kenya, if supposed someone sells the secrets of the country to an enemy, even if what he is selling may be the truth, he may have blue prints, then some country will give death penalty, some country will give life in prison, even though the is speaking the truth. So every country has its law.

So in Islam, if someone changes from a Muslim after accepting to any other religion and propagates it, and preaches it, and speaks against it, only if it is Islamic country, if someone does that in Kenya, no one will kill him, if he is in another country which follows Islamic law, what is he doing He is causing corruption. He is spreading things which are not peaceful. So for this if he is in Islamic country. (By the way the so called Muslims countries don't follow Islamic law. Some follow this and others follow that...)

So what you have to realize, in an Islamic country following Islamic law, and in that country such execution takes place, like in America if someone sells secrets of the country, he will be put to death. Similarly, this is the law of the country, when the country is based on the law of religion.

So read about "TREASON".
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