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Is Taking a Mortgage the WORST Decision Ever??
MaichBlack
#21 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:30:18 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,910
Angelica _ann wrote:
Balance both. Make money and then buy an asset 'house/land' and re-cycle that over and over. It works wonders at least for me! Over a period of 16 years now!

@Angelica _ann - I will definitely build or buy me a [dream?] house. But it will definitely not be on mortgage - not at 15% levels. And it is not high up in the list of things to do [though emotions say it should].

And finally - and most importantly - it will NOT be an investment [in my mind]! It will be just like the way I buy myself a nice pair of shoes or a watch. Nothing to do with investments!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
kiwaru
#22 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:50:57 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2011
Posts: 125
Is taking a mortgage the best decision ever?

Apology first to the opposite discussion @maichblack:

Am in my early 30's and have a portfolio of stocks (10%), real estate - undeveloped plots (70%), policies and insurance policies (15%). This is an amount that runs into 8 figures. I also run a restaurant business on the side with net income of 120k per month (for the last 18 months) and little debt. Household income after loans and subsistence is 200K - from professional employment, so little risk of unemployment. Have recently gotten some 3 mirrion. current

I have two options:
1. take a mortgage for an apartment in Kileleshwa
Cost - 16M
Deposit - 3 mirrion
Repayments for 13 mirrion @ 13.9% (stanchart) = 160K for 25 years. Interest initially consumes 95% of this
Direct lumpsomes to reduce principle: target 3-5m within 12 months

Adv:
Nyumba ya kuishi (decent, great environment from Ngumo!!! ach ach)
Build equity for future projects - through equity release

Disadv: obvious - high interest

2. Build a 12 unit block of apartments in Kisii. Ready market
Estimated income 300k (worst case scenario)
Budget 30 mirrion.
Since 3 m is available, means the rest would have to come from financing...

Adv:
Can start ground floor and ???? possibly start earning 75k with initial amount. will have to top up
Great foundation for future projects

Disadv: - kuendelea kuishi ngumo (apology to those who have aspired to Ngumo - where I stay is not very nice... but thats not the discussion)
Murang'a
#23 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 12:00:25 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/3/2014
Posts: 131
kiwaru wrote:
I have two options:
1. take a mortgage for an apartment in Kileleshwa
Cost - 16M
Deposit - 3 mirrion
Repayments for 13 mirrion @ 13.9% (stanchart) = 160K for 25 years. Interest initially consumes 95% of this
Direct lumpsomes to reduce principle: target 3-5m within 12 months

Adv:
Nyumba ya kuishi (decent, great environment from Ngumo!!! ach ach)
Build equity for future projects - through equity release

Disadv: obvious - high interest

2. Build a 12 unit block of apartments in Kisii. Ready market
Estimated income 300k (worst case scenario)
Budget 30 mirrion.
Since 3 m is available, means the rest would have to come from financing...

Adv:
Can start ground floor and ???? possibly start earning 75k with initial amount. will have to top up
Great foundation for future projects

Disadv: - kuendelea kuishi ngumo (apology to those who have aspired to Ngumo - where I stay is not very nice... but thats not the discussion)

Option 1 is "25 years a slave".

If you read Robert Kiyosaki's books you will see a common phrase in all of them, Seeing your home as an asset is one of the most common blunders that people make. We always aim at acquiring assets and reducing liabilities, but you should ask yourself whether taking a mortgage would do so.


Mortgage is for salaried guys who only think of short term gains and dont like investing and instead spend all the salary on paying bills and loans.
IMITATION IS LIMITATION
knight026
#24 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 12:09:36 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 32
Pardon me, but are the numbers realistic for Kenya? Ksh 1 to grow to Ksh 6,859 in 20 years? Maybe you can give exact figures for NSE between 1993-2013, what has been the average rate of return? Then use the number.
knight026
#25 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 12:16:33 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 32
Top yielding investments 2013-

Nse-16%
Govt Securities-8.2%
Fixed deposit-6.6%
Real estate-6%
kiwaru
#26 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 12:28:12 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2011
Posts: 125
I met a guy who told me that he bought half an acre in Kile at 1m in 1981.

Recently it was valued at 100m
kiwaru
#27 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 12:33:18 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2011
Posts: 125
d'oh! I met a guy who told me that he bought half an acre in Kile at 1m in 1981.

Recently it was valued at 100m

#dothemath
MaichBlack
#28 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 12:35:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,910
knight026 wrote:
Pardon me, but are the numbers realistic for Kenya? Ksh 1 to grow to Ksh 6,859 in 20 years? Maybe you can give exact figures for NSE between 1993-2013, what has been the average rate of return? Then use the number.

Hell yeah! See post# 9 and post# 14.

As a matter of fact, wazuans like @stocksmaster will tell you I am being extremely conservative! Visit the links provided in post# 9.

Forget the rate of return at the NSE in general. You are not buying each and every stock. You should cherry pick. And if you don't know how [and you don't want to do the work yourself], listen to some very generous wazuans (One being @stocksmaster - among others) who will give you the information absolutely free of charge. Also follow discussions in this forum. You will outperform the market every time!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
McReggae
#29 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 12:36:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
I agree with @Maichmweusi aboslutely, at the current rates a mortgage does not make sense. A friend working at Safcom took a mortgage through their company (about 6%) and the repayment per month was coming to around 54K. The other day he got another opportunity with another company and wanted to resign from Safcom, that is when he reazlized that to service the mortgage outside the company scheme he needed a further 44K net from the prospective employer before he could count any extra coin in his pocket......long story short, he did not resign!!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
kiwaru
#30 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 12:38:39 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2011
Posts: 125
MaichBlack wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Balance both. Make money and then buy an asset 'house/land' and re-cycle that over and over. It works wonders at least for me! Over a period of 16 years now!

@Angelica _ann - I will definitely build or buy me a [dream?] house. But it will definitely not be on mortgage - not at 15% levels. And it is not high up in the list of things to do [though emotions say it should].

And finally - and most importantly - it will NOT be an investment [in my mind]! It will be just like the way I buy myself a nice pair of shoes or a watch. Nothing to do with investments!!!


@Maichblack, I like your reasoning. But i do not agree with it: sometimes a house becomes an investment simply because it is a significant portion of your portfolio: if you have a 3 mirrion shilling house and nothing else (as most Kenyans start...)you have to make it count.
If you have a 100mirrion portfolio, you can buy a house like you are selecting a pair of shoes... right?
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