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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
maka
#721 Posted : Sunday, May 04, 2014 1:05:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Gordon Gekko wrote:
@maka, has PORK been chartering or has he been using regular flights? What has he been chartering - Embraer? Why would he charter and there is the Fokker? He did Europe on regular flights, I know because he flew together with my fare paying friend Benjamin Ochieng (God is not dead).


Never take this guy @maka seriously. I think ni kukosa kuelewa maana ya maneno mengine.

@Murchr ...thank you.@ GG Nairobi,Kigali then Turkey,UK used a chartered E190 you can take that to the bank had like 28 people on board,his plane was being serviced or something...to Brito he used commercial KQ.The other dreamliner checking in the next 30 minutes....
possunt quia posse videntur
maka
#722 Posted : Sunday, May 04, 2014 6:22:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
maka wrote:
murchr wrote:
Gordon
Gekko wrote:
@maka, has PORK been chartering or has he been using regular
flights? What has he been chartering - Embraer? Why would he charter and
there is the Fokker? He did Europe on regular flights, I know because
he flew together with my fare paying friend Benjamin Ochieng (God is not
dead).


Never take this guy @maka seriously. I think ni kukosa kuelewa maana ya
maneno mengine.

@Murchr ...thank you.@ GG Nairobi,Kigali then Turkey,UK used a chartered
E190 you can take that to the bank had like 28 people on board,his
plane was being serviced or something...to Brito he used commercial
KQ.The other dreamliner checking in the next 30 minutes....

sorry new 777-300 ,carries 420,compared to the 777-200 which carries 100 less.
possunt quia posse videntur
Museveni
#723 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 8:54:54 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 660

Summary

~ Experts say the airline could pay up to Sh14 billion in VAT for the six Boeing 787 Dreamliners and a Boeing 777-300 ER expected to arrive before the end of the year.
~ VAT poses a new challenge to the airline’s operations at a time it is struggling with high fuel costs, a dip in passenger numbers on some routes due to Kenya’s security concerns and stiff competition in the market.
~ Parliament last month introduced VAT on aeroplanes weighing more than 2,000 kilogrammes.
Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
VituVingiSana
#724 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 7:47:00 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
Dang! KQ is screwed. Even if KQ gets an exemption, it means a lot of lobbying and that costs money. After all lobbying MPs [& Treasury folks] means free flights + retreats + favors.

Anyway, KQ's current CEO and CFO do not really care coz they significant have no ownership stake!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#725 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 8:15:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,497
Location: nairobi
KQ doesnt have such money and government knows!! Government is idiotic but not to the extent of forcin through the tax. musikonde.. tulia muone VAT ikifutiliwa mbali

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#726 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 9:17:31 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
KQ doesnt have such money and government knows!! Government is idiotic but not to the extent of forcin through the tax. musikonde.. tulia muone VAT ikifutiliwa mbali
Only after KQ chotas some freebies for the MPigs.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Gordon Gekko
#727 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 9:56:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
The tax can be recovered as input tax. The only problem is that it must be paid immediately but takes forever to recover so kq has to finance it. They can however argue that when the contract was signed the tax didn't exist, a weak argument but the commissioner-general can exercise latitude.
VituVingiSana
#728 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:09:42 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
Gordon Gekko wrote:
The tax can be recovered as input tax. The only problem is that it must be paid immediately but takes forever to recover so kq has to finance it. They can however argue that when the contract was signed the tax didn't exist, a weak argument but the commissioner-general can exercise latitude.
KRA could seize the plane or other assets as well as freeze bank accounts AND impose penalties. So KQ is screwed since the refund will take ages to recover.

When KQ pays VAT on such purchases, can it 'sell' the VAT rebate/refund to another entity e.g. Nakumatt which can offset the VAT paid with VAT payable?

Nakumatt probably remits VAT [collected from final users/buyers] to KRA since its Input VAT is lower than Output VAT. Or does poor KQ need to become a retailer just so it can 'collect' VAT (from consumers) to offset its huge Input VAT?

Doesn't a Treasury rep sit on KQ's board? What was KQ doing when this Bill was being drafted?

Of course, the CEO was busy lobbying for another year on his contract to make sure the 787 gets delivered so he can claim 'success' and get a huge payoff [gratuity, etc] as a sendoff package!

@obiero - Pole sana. I am glad I stayed out. And I see little significant progress for KQ in the immediate future. Perhaps in 2015-16. The financing costs will kick in for KQ for both the planes and VAT. And the CEO's send-off package.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Akenyan2014
#729 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 2:51:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/6/2014
Posts: 268
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
Greetings, I have been a follower of wazua for a while, finally I have a membership ID. I agree with most arguments in the forum but on this one I think KQ is not paying the 14B in one lumpsum.They are getting 1 a/c every month and a new plane takes 2 to 3 months to go in service. That means by the time they acquire their 3rd aircraft they will already be generating revenues from the planes first bought(at lower fuel costs). Factoring this it is possible to fund VAT from those revenues without hurting the overall company financial position. Ndege zitajilipa, Kwani how do 'matatu' fleets come about? What I do not understand is how the share price will be in case the company comes out of loss making in June. Anybody?
Museveni
#730 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:14:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 660
Akenyan2014 wrote:
Greetings, I have been a follower of wazua for a while, finally I have a membership ID. I agree with most arguments in the forum but on this one I think KQ is not paying the 14B in one lumpsum.They are getting 1 a/c every month and a new plane takes 2 to 3 months to go in service. That means by the time they acquire their 3rd aircraft they will already be generating revenues from the planes first bought(at lower fuel costs). Factoring this it is possible to fund VAT from those revenues without hurting the overall company financial position. Ndege zitajilipa, Kwani how do 'matatu' fleets come about?

What I do not understand is how the share price will be in case the company comes out of loss making in June.


Anybody?


Karibu.
smile
How is the accounts office doing ama ni PR ? smile

Seriously though, that tax burden hawawezi..

See below

Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
ProverB
#731 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:03:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
Museveni wrote:

Summary

~
Experts say the airline could pay up to Sh14 billion in VAT for the six
Boeing 787 Dreamliners and a Boeing 777-300 ER expected to arrive
before the end of the year.
~ VAT poses a new challenge to the airline’s operations at a time it is
struggling with high fuel costs, a dip in passenger numbers on some
routes due to Kenya’s security concerns and stiff competition in the
market.
~ Parliament last month introduced VAT on aeroplanes weighing more than
2,000 kilogrammes.

As usual. Cries of "serikal saidia" to bail out a crapy management. Sad
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
Akenyan2014
#732 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:16:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/6/2014
Posts: 268
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
To expect an excellent 2013 is a tall order. But trust @Obiero especially if your target is 2015, a very high revenue target is being set, Several staff being trained on sales, Jambojet success, Greenfield, expected new ceo, etc. The expectation of poor numbers could drive price down slightly, but could spark a huge demand based on discount opportunity or when the dust settles, just like EABL (is it because they share a board member?).

@alykhansatchu doesn't refer to a stock as undervalued in vain. "Kenya Airways' commercial director steered FY earnings expectations higher and towards a FY profit and this is yet to be reflected in the price. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...ash.5C1Mldfv.dpuf"

Disclaimer: I own a few KQ shares @ 12.30
VituVingiSana
#733 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:28:50 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
Akenyan2014 wrote:
To expect an excellent 2013 is a tall order. But trust @Obiero especially if your target is 2015, a very high revenue target is being set, Several staff being trained on sales, Jambojet success, Greenfield, expected new ceo, etc. The expectation of poor numbers could drive price down slightly, but could spark a huge demand based on discount opportunity or when the dust settles, just like EABL (is it because they share a board member?).

@alykhansatchu doesn't refer to a stock as undervalued in vain. "Kenya Airways' commercial director steered FY earnings expectations higher and towards a FY profit and this is yet to be reflected in the price. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...ash.5C1Mldfv.dpuf"

Disclaimer: I own a few KQ shares @ 12.30

Ask yourself:
Does AKS have shares in KQ?
Does KQ provide him with a stream of income e.g. website ads?
Does the Finance Director have substantial shares in KQ?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#734 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:34:37 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
Akenyan2014 wrote:
Greetings, I have been a follower of wazua for a while, finally I have a membership ID. I agree with most arguments in the forum but on this one I think KQ is not paying the 14B in one lumpsum.They are getting 1 a/c every month and a new plane takes 2 to 3 months to go in service. That means by the time they acquire their 3rd aircraft they will already be generating revenues from the planes first bought(at lower fuel costs). Factoring this it is possible to fund VAT from those revenues without hurting the overall company financial position. Ndege zitajilipa, Kwani how do 'matatu' fleets come about? What I do not understand is how the share price will be in case the company comes out of loss making in June. Anybody?

A plane [787 & 777] costs $100-300mn and whose 'lives' can be 20 years.
16% of 100mn = 16mn so it is highly unlikely that a plane delivered 3 months ago has generated enough cash/profit to pay the VAT of a new plane. Furthermore, these planes have been bought with borrowed funds so KQ has to pay the monthly instalments and other fixed and variable expenses before having 'cash' to be used to make VAT payments for new planes.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Museveni
#735 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:37:06 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 660
VituVingiSana wrote:
Akenyan2014 wrote:
To expect an excellent 2013 is a tall order. But trust @Obiero especially if your target is 2015, a very high revenue target is being set, Several staff being trained on sales, Jambojet success, Greenfield, expected new ceo, etc. The expectation of poor numbers could drive price down slightly, but could spark a huge demand based on discount opportunity or when the dust settles, just like EABL (is it because they share a board member?).

@alykhansatchu doesn't refer to a stock as undervalued in vain. "Kenya Airways' commercial director steered FY earnings expectations higher and towards a FY profit and this is yet to be reflected in the price. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...ash.5C1Mldfv.dpuf"

Disclaimer: I own a few KQ shares @ 12.30

Ask yourself:
Does AKS have shares in KQ?
Does KQ provide him with a stream of income e.g. website ads?
Does the Finance Director have substantial shares in KQ?


+ trust no one +

Not even @Obiero..

Set yourself targets. Soft ones.

One step at a time. Do not lust after that carrot.. the distance to the mouth is almost always constant.
Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Gordon Gekko
#736 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 5:37:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Some of these planes are leased, which is a much better deal as they avoid vat issues and lease expenses are deductible. See last para

http://t.co/4WEFzKlLuc
Akenyan2014
#737 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 5:48:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/6/2014
Posts: 268
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
Museveni wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Akenyan2014 wrote:
To expect an excellent 2013 is a tall order. But trust @Obiero especially if your target is 2015, a very high revenue target is being set, Several staff being trained on sales, Jambojet success, Greenfield, expected new ceo, etc. The expectation of poor numbers could drive price down slightly, but could spark a huge demand based on discount opportunity or when the dust settles, just like EABL (is it because they share a board member?).

@alykhansatchu doesn't refer to a stock as undervalued in vain. "Kenya Airways' commercial director steered FY earnings expectations higher and towards a FY profit and this is yet to be reflected in the price. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...ash.5C1Mldfv.dpuf"

Disclaimer: I own a few KQ shares @ 12.30

Ask yourself:
Does AKS have shares in KQ?
Does KQ provide him with a stream of income e.g. website ads?
Does the Finance Director have substantial shares in KQ?


+ trust no one +

Not even @Obiero..

Set yourself targets. Soft ones.

One step at a time. Do not lust after that carrot.. the distance to the mouth is almost always constant.


@VituVingiSana, @Museveni, I have no idea of AKS's and FD's stake. All I remember is cheering guys to buy EABL at abt 220 recently and telling guys SCOM had a future when everybody was running away. Look at the two titans now !!!
My objective was to find out if there is any future in this stock to inform my exit or continued stay.
obiero
#738 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 9:00:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,497
Location: nairobi
huyo mtu amesema KRA itashika KQ planes for any eventual default, must be living in Utopia.. those who saw KCB on its knees in 2004 as a loss making firm know what I am talking about

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
obiero
#739 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2014 9:16:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,497
Location: nairobi
Akenyan2014 wrote:
Museveni wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Akenyan2014 wrote:
To expect an excellent 2013 is a tall order. But trust @Obiero especially if your target is 2015, a very high revenue target is being set, Several staff being trained on sales, Jambojet success, Greenfield, expected new ceo, etc. The expectation of poor numbers could drive price down slightly, but could spark a huge demand based on discount opportunity or when the dust settles, just like EABL (is it because they share a board member?).

@alykhansatchu doesn't refer to a stock as undervalued in vain. "Kenya Airways' commercial director steered FY earnings expectations higher and towards a FY profit and this is yet to be reflected in the price. - See more at: http://www.the-star.co.k...ash.5C1Mldfv.dpuf"

Disclaimer: I own a few KQ shares @ 12.30

Ask yourself:
Does AKS have shares in KQ?
Does KQ provide him with a stream of income e.g. website ads?
Does the Finance Director have substantial shares in KQ?


+ trust no one +

Not even @Obiero..

Set yourself targets. Soft ones.

One step at a time. Do not lust after that carrot.. the distance to the mouth is almost always constant.


@VituVingiSana, @Museveni, I have no idea of AKS's and FD's stake. All I remember is cheering guys to buy EABL at abt 220 recently and telling guys SCOM had a future when everybody was running away. Look at the two titans now !!!
My objective was to find out if there is any future in this stock to inform my exit or continued stay.

bro/sis.. kama unauza uza. usichanganyike

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#740 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2014 4:15:07 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
Gordon Gekko wrote:
Some of these planes are leased, which is a much better deal as they avoid vat issues and lease expenses are deductible. See last para

http://t.co/4WEFzKlLuc
I may be mistaken but I think Leases [long-term that are essentially like Hire-Purchase] attract VAT.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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