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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:Swenani wrote:guru267 wrote:Swenani wrote:
Are you implying that the border is not currently manned?
Yes... People can walk in an out as they choose at very many points! Guru267, I think it is manned....What makes you think if we pull troops from Somalia will prevent people walking in ad out as they choose? Manned my black behind! After watching movies people here think borders are real things!! Barbed wire...Fence e.t.c. borders exist only on paper! Tafakari haya - Kenya has a 700km border with Somalia - that is longer than the distance from Mau Summit to Mombasa! Wakenya munaota ndoto! Masukuma by manned I mean frequent patrols are usually done along the border by air/foot/cars. And yes borders are real things identified by landmarks, beacons and coordinates If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:masukuma wrote:Swenani wrote:guru267 wrote:Swenani wrote:
Are you implying that the border is not currently manned?
Yes... People can walk in an out as they choose at very many points! Guru267, I think it is manned....What makes you think if we pull troops from Somalia will prevent people walking in ad out as they choose? Manned my black behind! After watching movies people here think borders are real things!! Barbed wire...Fence e.t.c. borders exist only on paper! Tafakari haya - Kenya has a 700km border with Somalia - that is longer than the distance from Mau Summit to Mombasa! Wakenya munaota ndoto! Masukuma by manned I mean frequent patrols are usually done along the border by air/foot/cars. And yes borders are real things identified by landmarks, beacons and coordinates haha.... the only real borders are natural like rivers and oceans or man made structures like the great wall of china or the north/south korea borders - the rest just exist on paper and are conceptual things in the heads of africans. i am not saying that the effects of borders are not real you can prove that a certain place belongs to A or B however the madness is expecting those imaginary things to stop people on foot or animals from crossing them. it's folly to think of 'manning' a 700km border regularly to stop refugees from coming in. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:what is the point of staying on somalia if your objectives have been met? in the flipside - who told you that if kdf was to leave somalia these people will stop bombing us? another thing - who says that it's somalis from somalia or refugees bombing us? some of those guys are happy to jificha huku kwanza do u know akina Rogo, makaburi e.t.c. are/were not somalis? just "defending" our borders without knowing from what or who you are defending from is ignorance. as i said on other forums borders are imaginary things!!! people come and go as they please unless you are a small country like israel. I was told that the terror attacks are not done by the Somalis of Somalia origin or somali of kenyan origin.its mostly Kenyans from mombasa and the recently converted Hussein bin Njoroge, Muhammed Otieno, Abdul Abdi Wekesa etc If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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muganda wrote:guru267 wrote:muganda wrote:Somalia must leave us alone or face the consequences. Would you thump your chest this hard if the UN suddenly stopped bankrolling the war in Somalia? @guru267 dear, I prefaced my statement with 'what is right must be done because it is right'. We did not begin this war, we were provoked, we've chosen to end it. Loyalty or national pride is a desirable quality. It demands wisdom but courage, even more. For what is the alternative, neocolonialism at the hand of adversarial terrorists! @muganda seriously I want to find out how serious you are about this war! Imagine we are 10 years into the war and the UN decides it has other battles to fight and abandons us. Will Kenyan taxpayers continue to bankroll the war?? Doesn't that leave the political class exposed to protest?? Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,908
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guru267 wrote:muganda wrote:guru267 wrote:muganda wrote:Somalia must leave us alone or face the consequences. Would you thump your chest this hard if the UN suddenly stopped bankrolling the war in Somalia? @guru267 dear, I prefaced my statement with 'what is right must be done because it is right'. We did not begin this war, we were provoked, we've chosen to end it. Loyalty or national pride is a desirable quality. It demands wisdom but courage, even more. For what is the alternative, neocolonialism at the hand of adversarial terrorists! @muganda seriously I want to find out how serious you are about this war! Imagine we are 10 years into the war and the UN decides it has other battles to fight and abandons us. Will Kenyan taxpayers continue to bankroll the war?? Doesn't that leave the political class exposed to protest?? @guru267 understood. But realize I'm not seeking a political post or collapse of Islam. Hence my support is for a just war, not an endless war. A right cause for the war, right conduct, to end as soon as our security is assured and fair reparations attained. To be realistic, I agree with @masukuma that we should not linger or waste time. Handover to a caretaker defence force capable and willing to enforce peace settlement. But not surrender to an aggressor using terrorism to sell a false peace.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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muganda wrote:
Hence my support is for a just war, not an endless war. A right cause for the war, right conduct, to end as soon as our security is assured and fair reparations attained.
Kenya's security will never be assured by fighting in Somalia. You think America is safer from terrorists now that USA is leaving Afghanistan ? The way to fight insurgents is not all out war. You can never defeat insurgents with all out war. What Kenya can do now is focus on securing its own land and engage in targeted hits when needed. You see USA is now fighting in Yemen with drones not all out war. USA learned the same lesson that the Soviets learned in the 1980s which is that : You can never win a conventional war against muslim insurgents. No matter how many casualties you inflict, they keep coming back
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,908
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Alba wrote:muganda wrote:
Hence my support is for a just war, not an endless war. A right cause for the war, right conduct, to end as soon as our security is assured and fair reparations attained.
Kenya's security will never be assured by fighting in Somalia. You think America is safer from terrorists now that USA is leaving Afghanistan ? The way to fight insurgents is not all out war. You can never defeat insurgents with all out war. What Kenya can do now is focus on securing its own land and engage in targeted hits when needed. You see USA is now fighting in Yemen with drones not all out war. USA learned the same lesson that the Soviets learned in the 1980s which is that : You can never win a conventional war against muslim insurgents. No matter how many casualties you inflict, they keep coming back @Alba you make a fair point as regards approach or tactics. On ground phase of the war was successful including a transition to combined AU force. Your suggestions call for new thinking for AMISOM which is currently made up over 22,000 troops from say 10 countries; supporting transitional government structures in a failed Somalia state. No army or force in this world is insurmountable - we are not Americans chasing Somalis in a battle for Mogadishu. Kenya can win and will win a peace from this war.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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Tokyo wrote:A time has come when Kenyans should standup and demand our troops who are in harms way in hostile terrains of Somalia back. They have performed their duties with dedication and patriotism .every Kenyan is proud of them. Reasons are;
- this is ideological war which fanatics already think religion as the reasons. We know you can never win against such propaganda .
-the economical effects in a country like kenya is massive
-our leaders invaded a failed country without a clear plan on how to end the war
- we share a common border meaning very vulnerable to the fanatics obsessed and having a zeal to inflict destruction to life and property.
- due to hardships and less opportunities our people can easily be recruited complicating already severe situation .
- harmony of Kenyans is weak. That means in case another PEV 2013,(God forbid) the consequences and alshabab terrorists within, it will be a serious security problem.
- many of our officers are highly corrupt. Meaning easier for terrorism to operate.ethiopians despite being in Somalia for long have very few if any random attacks. Reasons their people are individually highly patriotic and love for their country.
etc...
I suggest:
- pull the troops out immediately
-create a buffer zone in the border . Like 50 km and deploy the army currently in Somalia .
- close all refugees camp in kenya. Daadab etc. build refugees camp in the southern Somalia . Let it be secured by international community and others involved .
- have a physical address of all properties and people in kenya.
- land plots and buildings in kenya owned by foreigners should be scrutinized again.
-all banks operating within Kenyans border must be vigilant especially because there might be evidence that terrorists are operating and transacting.read HSBC issues in US
-Somalia should be divided.kenya can start by recognizing the peaceful
Somali land . Use Her diplomacy to campaign for dividing Somalia .
-as a long term measure, kenya should introduce an IC identity card to curb forgery. work to prosper
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2008 Posts: 323
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AlphDoti wrote:jokes wrote:Remember just before the creation of new South Sudan, a consignment of military arms left the port of Mombasa for South Sudan?
First the government lied that the consignment belonged to Kenya army. Next thing we saw was Kenyan government escorting the same to South Sudan. Why were they arming South Sudan? Who had the interest? Kenya? Thank God those people agreed on the boundary and split!
Apha this is how you make friends,
we help south sudan they help us with their oil.
It was busniness
and unless i am mistaken the interim agreements allowed south Sudan to have a military.
we assited @jokes you're such a joker. You mean allowed the "rebels" have arms in readiness for civil war, fight the govt, exactly what they are doing now. So we are country that supports rebels when it suits us (read benefit = oil). NB: just in case you miss the joke, note that there was no " South Sudan" you are not making sense,
how are we supporting the rebels??at least in Sudan they are fighting about OIL,what have Somalis in Somalia been fighting for? for the last 20 years?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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The rhetoric on twitter is now leaning towards bringing our boys home  #EndGameSomalia Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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