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Devolution - It's Back to 1960's
washiku
#21 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 1:13:03 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
I wonder what kind of a law or formula we can put in place that can guide on the county that spent its previous allocation very well being considered for more allocation and any county that spent its money on unnecessary things like county fuel guzzlers getting no increase. Maybe that way people would be careful on how they elect their leader.

But seriously, beyond the noises, in five years, some counties will already have achieved their version of vision 2013 while others will still be crying how devolution is being threatened. One year is gone n thus we don't expect counties allocating money on things like cars, mansions n such that were already done in the 1st year. It should be more of health centres, water, farming n such.
InnovateGuy
#22 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 1:33:40 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
washiku wrote:
So @Innovateguy, if these allegations are not part of your innovations, and with devolution as the context, who is paying Midiwo and Muthama and their counterparts to kill devolution? Answer that then we can continue.


You seem convinced that the national government led by UK won't kill devolution. Why don't you support your point of view instead of resorting to sideshows?
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
washiku
#23 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 2:11:22 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
InnovateGuy wrote:
washiku wrote:
So @Innovateguy, if these allegations are not part of your innovations, and with devolution as the context, who is paying Midiwo and Muthama and their counterparts to kill devolution? Answer that then we can continue.


You seem convinced that the national government led by UK won't kill devolution. Why don't you support your point of view instead of resorting to sideshows?


Haiya...sideshows tena? My questions are purely based on your allegations. I already demonstrated why:

1. I don't believe the governors are sincere when they say govt is killing their job simply because people, largely from legislature arm of the govt, and many Wanjikus including here in Wazua have questioned how they have utilised the money already allocated to them. If they can't answer those questions exhaustively, then they are the ones killing devolution. Ref: Such for all threads on devolution here in Wazua n you will see the discussions. Or Wazuans too have been paid to kill devolution so as to complete the 1960-like script?

2. You wrote that the pipers payer dictates the tune. You specifically mentioned Duale n Murkomen(Selective according to me) so that you can push the agenda that Uhuruto are killers. On the same note I asked you of the guys above who has been as well vocal on the same issues. That has automatically added me to the sideshow brigade.

3. Talking of side shows, the thread is about killing county govts, you brought central govts scandals. I asked you to illustrate the connection, you ignored. Wasn't that a sideshow really?

4. According to your script, Uhuruto wants to kill devolution so that they remain relevant, whatever that means. I challenged you on who would benefit from devolution come 2017? If they succeed to kill devolution, do you understand how powerful a tool that would be in 2017 campaigns?

5. Central govt has clear issues that we shall measure it on. One of them is devolution, plus security, Railway, Mega Irrigation projects, education, power and such others as promised in their manifesto. If you both checking on my previous contributions, I have been clear on each. How I feel each is being handled. I don't intend to talk about them here coz the topic was specific. But on devolution, the bigger query IMO is how that local leader called governor has so far impacted on the mwananchi with what is already allocated. Since they were put in place to correct the errors that were there with central governance structure, they should not tell us that they are doing well simply because central govt is doing worse. We never put them there to do things like Uhuruto are doing, we put them there to do better.

6. Wage Bill issue. Its coming out clearly that mega wastage happens at procurement, travelling, and such other wastages. There is also the issue of sitting allowances. These issues MUST be sorted and thats why the discussion is crucial. On mtembezi "promising" the MCAs, we already raised questions about it.I even wonder whether he can implement it anyway. As per the law, its not his role. All in all, it does not qualify as a killer yet.


Where have I gone to side issues this far?
InnovateGuy
#24 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 2:21:57 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
washiku wrote:
InnovateGuy wrote:
washiku wrote:
So @Innovateguy, if these allegations are not part of your innovations, and with devolution as the context, who is paying Midiwo and Muthama and their counterparts to kill devolution? Answer that then we can continue.


You seem convinced that the national government led by UK won't kill devolution. Why don't you support your point of view instead of resorting to sideshows?


Haiya...sideshows tena? My questions are purely based on your allegations. I already demonstrated why:

1. I don't believe the governors are sincere when they say govt is killing their job simply because people, largely from legislature arm of the govt, and many Wanjikus including here in Wazua have questioned how they have utilised the money already allocated to them. If they can't answer those questions exhaustively, then they are the ones killing devolution. Ref: Such for all threads on devolution here in Wazua n you will see the discussions. Or Wazuans too have been paid to kill devolution so as to complete the 1960-like script?

2. You wrote that the pipers payer dictates the tune. You specifically mentioned Duale n Murkomen(Selective according to me) so that you can push the agenda that Uhuruto are killers. On the same note I asked you of the guys above who has been as well vocal on the same issues. That has automatically added me to the sideshow brigade.

3. Talking of side shows, the thread is about killing county govts, you brought central govts scandals. I asked you to illustrate the connection, you ignored. Wasn't that a sideshow really?

4. According to your script, Uhuruto wants to kill devolution so that they remain relevant, whatever that means. I challenged you on who would benefit from devolution come 2017? If they succeed to kill devolution, do you understand how powerful a tool that would be in 2017 campaigns?

5. Central govt has clear issues that we shall measure it on. One of them is devolution, plus security, Railway, Mega Irrigation projects, education, power and such others as promised in their manifesto. If you both checking on my previous contributions, I have been clear on each. How I feel each is being handled. I don't intend to talk about them here coz the topic was specific. But on devolution, the bigger query IMO is how that local leader called governor has so far impacted on the mwananchi with what is already allocated. Since they were put in place to correct the errors that were there with central governance structure, they should not tell us that they are doing well simply because central govt is doing worse. We never put them there to do things like Uhuruto are doing, we put them there to do better.

6. Wage Bill issue. Its coming out clearly that mega wastage happens at procurement, travelling, and such other wastages. There is also the issue of sitting allowances. These issues MUST be sorted and thats why the discussion is crucial. On mtembezi "promising" the MCAs, we already raised questions about it.I even wonder whether he can implement it anyway. As per the law, its not his role. All in all, it does not qualify as a killer yet.


Where have I gone to side issues this far?


Let's agree to disagree. Meanwhile, take off your red goggles and stroll around to enjoy the sunshine. It's a sunny day.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
Toxicity
#25 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 2:31:33 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 458
Both @innovateGuy and @washiku have some points this being a topic of interest i have started some research on the same and this the first resource I have got on the same

someone killing devolution

I will research moře and make personal conclusions at a later time.
update president set president = speaker where president is null
washiku
#26 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 2:33:07 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
InnovateGuy wrote:
washiku wrote:
InnovateGuy wrote:
washiku wrote:
So @Innovateguy, if these allegations are not part of your innovations, and with devolution as the context, who is paying Midiwo and Muthama and their counterparts to kill devolution? Answer that then we can continue.


You seem convinced that the national government led by UK won't kill devolution. Why don't you support your point of view instead of resorting to sideshows?


Haiya...sideshows tena? My questions are purely based on your allegations. I already demonstrated why:

1. I don't believe the governors are sincere when they say govt is killing their job simply because people, largely from legislature arm of the govt, and many Wanjikus including here in Wazua have questioned how they have utilised the money already allocated to them. If they can't answer those questions exhaustively, then they are the ones killing devolution. Ref: Such for all threads on devolution here in Wazua n you will see the discussions. Or Wazuans too have been paid to kill devolution so as to complete the 1960-like script?

2. You wrote that the pipers payer dictates the tune. You specifically mentioned Duale n Murkomen(Selective according to me) so that you can push the agenda that Uhuruto are killers. On the same note I asked you of the guys above who has been as well vocal on the same issues. That has automatically added me to the sideshow brigade.

3. Talking of side shows, the thread is about killing county govts, you brought central govts scandals. I asked you to illustrate the connection, you ignored. Wasn't that a sideshow really?

4. According to your script, Uhuruto wants to kill devolution so that they remain relevant, whatever that means. I challenged you on who would benefit from devolution come 2017? If they succeed to kill devolution, do you understand how powerful a tool that would be in 2017 campaigns?

5. Central govt has clear issues that we shall measure it on. One of them is devolution, plus security, Railway, Mega Irrigation projects, education, power and such others as promised in their manifesto. If you both checking on my previous contributions, I have been clear on each. How I feel each is being handled. I don't intend to talk about them here coz the topic was specific. But on devolution, the bigger query IMO is how that local leader called governor has so far impacted on the mwananchi with what is already allocated. Since they were put in place to correct the errors that were there with central governance structure, they should not tell us that they are doing well simply because central govt is doing worse. We never put them there to do things like Uhuruto are doing, we put them there to do better.

6. Wage Bill issue. Its coming out clearly that mega wastage happens at procurement, travelling, and such other wastages. There is also the issue of sitting allowances. These issues MUST be sorted and thats why the discussion is crucial. On mtembezi "promising" the MCAs, we already raised questions about it.I even wonder whether he can implement it anyway. As per the law, its not his role. All in all, it does not qualify as a killer yet.


Where have I gone to side issues this far?


Let's agree to disagree. Meanwhile, take off your red goggles and stroll around to enjoy the sunshine. It's a sunny day.


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Just because you are unable to answers questions I am red-goggled. You are special. OK. Let me go for a jog in my goggles. You may join me with your own "Uhuruto are devolution killers" goggles and "Rao should come save it goggles". Have a blessed afternoon man.
tycho
#27 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 2:51:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
I believe the best measure of how devolution is working is how vibrant and influential the village committees are. Do they raise incomes and revenues? Do they rely on the governors or central government?

So far, everyone seems to be looking at the central government for funds and support. This is the strongest force against devolution and not even 'baba' seems to be countering it.
innairobi
#28 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 5:38:23 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 845
Devolution is going nowhere. We can meet here in 10 years to confirm. All this noise on 'threatening devolution' is politicians being politicians i.e. protecting their personal interests. There can be no material changes without a referendum. Devolution is popular even in Jubilee strongholds. In any case, wanjiku who is the supposed beneficiary akikubali, shida iko wapi? Hakuna haaaja ya wasiwasi. Hakunaaaaaaa!
All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
Lolest!
#29 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 6:37:52 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Another alarmist. Devolution is going nowhere. If devolution is 'killed' I will eat my old pair of shoes.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
InnovateGuy
#30 Posted : Monday, April 07, 2014 10:18:40 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
tycho wrote:
I believe the best measure of how devolution is working is how vibrant and influential the village committees are. Do they raise incomes and revenues? Do they rely on the governors or central government?

So far, everyone seems to be looking at the central government for funds and support. This is the strongest force against devolution and not even 'baba' seems to be countering it.


Our counties are not at the level where they can generate enough incomes to sustain themselves. We at the level where an injection of funds is needed to improve infrastructure and establish structures where none existed. Without the funds to initiate development, devolution will exist only in paper.

***
Why devolve all the functions and fail to devolve funds? Agriculture is a devolved function. The national government will only assist in policy. This year, agriculture will be given 40 B. Why does the government need 40 B to do policy? Give that money to counties!
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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