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Russia Going to War with US over Ukraine?
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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innairobi wrote:My good friend, keep your panties on tafadhali. I did not say superpower - I said world power. Kukusaidia, France and Germany are world powers. They are not superpowers.
Look, there isnt enough space here to school you on the complexities of geopolitics but due to my commitment to selfless public service, wacha nijaribu. First, I am not in an argument on whether Russia is stronger than the US/EU or has a better quality of life. I suspect some of the emotional knee-jerk reactions here are because people are taking statements assessing Russia capability on anything and projecting it on US/EU capability. The reasons for this conflation are perplexing.
POINT 1 - The US/EU are far stronger than Russia in numerous respects GDP included. But EU/US capability is not mutually exclusive with Russia's capability. Nikikusaidia kidogo tena, if I say France has nuclear weapons, it does not mean I am saying India has no nuclear weapons. If I say South Korea has a large GDP, it does not mean I am saying Japan has a smaller GDP. If I say Russia's military is number 2 worldwide, it does not mean I am saying the US is number 50. Tunaelewana papi?
POINT 2 - Being a world power is a combination of military strength, economic strength and geopolitical global/regional influence. The mistake you are making is assuming the whole world is defined by one equation: GDP strength = Geopolitical strength or Quality of life = Geopolitical strength
- Qatar, Singapore and Switzerland have stratospheric per capita GDPs but no one in the world really cares for their opinion when making serious global decisions
- China's per capita GDP may be far lower than Mauritius but you can be sure the US does not give a f*ck what Mauritius thinks on the conflict in Syria
POINT 3 - Capital flight does not necessarily negate geopolitical capability. More Chinese (than Russians) are investing and/or buying citizenship in the US, Canada and UK. Such departure has zero impact on China's growing geopolitical influence.
CONCLUSIONS
- Russia is a world power for several reasons including military strength (number 2 in the world), essential natural resources (gas/oil) and a $2T economy. It could be a basket case in many other respects including quality of life or capital flight. But much as even I hate to admit, it is a world power today nevertheless. It could be declining but that is another debate.
- Russia's profile means decisions to punish it are difficult. Your point on EU/Russia trade actually affirm its status as a world power. Economic sanctions though effective could have unintended consequences on the global economy - sanctions on any $1T+ economy will have significant consequences on the world economy. President Obama and Chancellor Merkel have admitted as much so it is amusing to see mwafrikas in distant lands chest thumping otherwise.
- If Kenya invades and annexes Burundi, there will be too many easy options on the table. Just like has happened for CAR, Mali and Libya, UK/US/France/NATO/UN will not think twice about military action or unleashing crippling economic sanctions. In fact, 1000 special ops and a dozen bomb drops would be sufficient to crush our tiny armies this side of the world. Interestingly, our only respite in such a situation would be a UNSC veto by a world power (US/UK/France/China/Russia) or military support from a world power (as Russia is doing in Syria).
Couldn't have put it better. I hope these people have their notebooks and pens out and take this opportunity to learn "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Just admit you posted some serious ufala above instead of twisting and turning. You said that Russia is a world power because they invaded a country and the EU is doing nothing. Now you are retract your earlier nonsensical post. The notion of a world power is meaningless in this regard. It is 100% about strategic interests. Whether or not a country imposes sanctions depends on its own strategic interests. The USA was recently under pressure to impose sanctions on Uganda because of their anti-gay bill. They did not. It has nothing to do with world power. Its about strategic interests: USA needs Ugandan troops in Somalia. And what of Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc. They have some of the worst human rights records yet the west never says anything. Based on your twisted logic then they must be world powers too. So is Nigeria after all they too had an anti-gay bill similar to Uganda's yet the EU never criticised them as they did with Uganda. All because Nigeria has oil and Uganda does not. None of these countries can be punished by the US or EU because they risk sending oil prices skyrocketing. So based on your logic they must be world powers too ? As for Russia's military, they can only deploy it close to home. Russia has virtually no global military influence. If you look up the meaning of world power you will find that it says: a country that is powerful enough to affect the entire world by its influence or actions. In military terms, Russia only affects its neigbours not the world. Let me clarify that : Russia is a nuisance to its neighbours. Globally , Nobody seeks Russian help. there is a Malaysian airlines plan lost. And who do people go to for help ? Not Russia. They are useless in global deployment and too self absorbed. innairobi wrote:My good friend, keep your panties on tafadhali. I did not say superpower - I said world power. Kukusaidia, France and Germany are world powers. They are not superpowers. Look, there isnt enough space here to school you on the complexities of geopolitics but due to my commitment to selfless public service, wacha nijaribu. First, I am not in an argument on whether Russia is stronger than the US/EU or has a better quality of life. I suspect some of the emotional knee-jerk reactions here are because people are taking statements assessing Russia capability on anything and projecting it on US/EU capability. The reasons for this conflation are perplexing. POINT 1 - The US/EU are far stronger than Russia in numerous respects GDP included. But EU/US capability is not mutually exclusive with Russia's capability. Nikikusaidia kidogo tena, if I say France has nuclear weapons, it does not mean I am saying India has no nuclear weapons. If I say South Korea has a large GDP, it does not mean I am saying Japan has a smaller GDP. If I say Russia's military is number 2 worldwide, it does not mean I am saying the US is number 50. Tunaelewana papi? POINT 2 - Being a world power is a combination of military strength, economic strength and geopolitical global/regional influence. The mistake you are making is assuming the whole world is defined by one equation: GDP strength = Geopolitical strength or Quality of life = Geopolitical strength - Qatar, Singapore and Switzerland have stratospheric per capita GDPs but no one in the world really cares for their opinion when making serious global decisions - China's per capita GDP may be far lower than Mauritius but you can be sure the US does not give a f*ck what Mauritius thinks on the conflict in Syria POINT 3 - Capital flight does not necessarily negate geopolitical capability. More Chinese (than Russians) are investing and/or buying citizenship in the US, Canada and UK. Such departure has zero impact on China's growing geopolitical influence. CONCLUSIONS - Russia is a world power for several reasons including military strength (number 2 in the world), essential natural resources (gas/oil) and a $2T economy. It could be a basket case in many other respects including quality of life or capital flight. But much as even I hate to admit, it is a world power today nevertheless. It could be declining but that is another debate. - Russia's profile means decisions to punish it are difficult. Your point on EU/Russia trade actually affirm its status as a world power. Economic sanctions though effective could have unintended consequences on the global economy - sanctions on any $1T+ economy will have significant consequences on the world economy. President Obama and Chancellor Merkel have admitted as much so it is amusing to see mwafrikas in distant lands chest thumping otherwise. - If Kenya invades and annexes Burundi, there will be too many easy options on the table. Just like has happened for CAR, Mali and Libya, UK/US/France/NATO/UN will not think twice about military action or unleashing crippling economic sanctions. In fact, 1000 special ops and a dozen bomb drops would be sufficient to crush our tiny armies this side of the world. Interestingly, our only respite in such a situation would be a UNSC veto by a world power (US/UK/France/China/Russia) or military support from a world power (as Russia is doing in Syria). Alba wrote:innairobi wrote:How to know your country is a world power
- Invade a neighboring country and annex part of it
- 28 heads of government controlling $16 trillion GDP (a.k.a. the EU) convene an emergency meeting to decide what to do with you. Even then, they cannot take decisive crippling action.
- The president of the world's superpower, the United States, effectively rules out military action
- The UN Security Council can only foam at the mouth Oh please If Kenya invaded Burundi, there would be no military intervention from the USA because Americans are war fatigued and most want America to mind its own business.. Does that make Kenya a superpower ? The real reason the EU cannot take stern action against Russia is not because Russia is a superpower. It is because their economies are intertwined. Germany imports 40% of its natural gas from Russia. In turn German companies sell billions of Euro of machinery, pharmaceuticals and other items to Russia. Imposing harsh sanctions would mean cutting their own nose to spite their face. The truth is that Russia is a decaying country with delusions of being a power. Heck even Brazil has a higher GDP than Russia which for all its reputation, does not manufacture anything worthwhile. All their money comes from extracting minerals.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Just as an FYI, The U.S. will pay Russia $70.7 million for a single shuttle ride aboard the country’s Soyuz rocket Tuesday night, even as President Barack Obama fights for sanctions and penalties against Russia for its recent invasion of the Ukraine. With politicians wrangling over the most diplomatic way to respond to Russia’s aggression, NASA said the space pay-off to the Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos) wouldn’t be affected by politics. ....You see, the US stopped their space missions because they are broke now they have to rely on Russians to take them out of space. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,335 Location: Masada
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murchr wrote:Just as an FYI, The U.S. will pay Russia $70.7 million for a single shuttle ride aboard the country’s Soyuz rocket Tuesday night, even as President Barack Obama fights for sanctions and penalties against Russia for its recent invasion of the Ukraine.
With politicians wrangling over the most diplomatic way to respond to Russia’s aggression, NASA said the space pay-off to the Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos) wouldn’t be affected by politics.
....You see, the US stopped their space missions because they are broke now they have to rely on Russians to take them out of space.
Thats true, its the same Obama who signed the end of the US Shuttle program citing that with Cold war nolonger there the didnt need any space race/compe. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 845
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Hehe. Wacha hasira rafiki. Mambo ya human rights, gay rights, tracing Malaysia airlines etc sijui zinatoka wapi. Let's not lose focus. If you can go back to the 4 points and show me a country that can do that and is not a world power, nitakubali. For now, no retractions. I am not dogmatic and can accept correction. Being the good citizen I am, wacha niweke hiyo post tena hapa. innairobi wrote:How to know your country is a world power
- Invade a neighboring country and annex part of it
- 28 heads of government controlling $16 trillion GDP (a.k.a. the EU) convene an emergency meeting to decide what to do with you. Even then, they cannot take decisive crippling action.
- The president of the world's superpower, the United States, effectively rules out military action
- The UN Security Council can only foam at the mouth
Americans and Europeans consider Russia a world power. Search the websites/analysis/research from Harvard Uni, Oxford Uni, Yale Uni, New York Times, BBC, CNN, Fox, MSNBC etc all of them refer to Russia as a world power. Ni mwafrika tu in distant lands wanapiga kifua otherwise. My friend, tembea kidogo na usome kidogo - Russia is not Kenya. Hata hivyo, you have the right to your opinion baba. Alba wrote:...Globally , Nobody seeks Russian help. there is a Malaysian airlines plan lost. And who do people go to for help ? Not Russia. They are useless in global deployment and too self absorbed. All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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nakujua wrote:@innairobi usijaribu kupingana na Hollywood/western media reinforced googles, those things are more powerful than those tu nuclear bombs the us or russia has. Indeed.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Impunity wrote:murchr wrote:Just as an FYI, The U.S. will pay Russia $70.7 million for a single shuttle ride aboard the country’s Soyuz rocket Tuesday night, even as President Barack Obama fights for sanctions and penalties against Russia for its recent invasion of the Ukraine.
With politicians wrangling over the most diplomatic way to respond to Russia’s aggression, NASA said the space pay-off to the Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos) wouldn’t be affected by politics.
....You see, the US stopped their space missions because they are broke now they have to rely on Russians to take them out of space.
Thats true, its the same Obama who signed the end of the US Shuttle program citing that with Cold war nolonger there the didnt need any space race/compe. Watch here ==== http://www.space.com/252...es-us-russian-crew.html
By the way...i've gone thru BBC and CNN na sijaona any coverage or they are simply implying that this is not news worthy? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/9/2008 Posts: 2,824
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murchr wrote:Impunity wrote:murchr wrote:Just as an FYI, The U.S. will pay Russia $70.7 million for a single shuttle ride aboard the country’s Soyuz rocket Tuesday night, even as President Barack Obama fights for sanctions and penalties against Russia for its recent invasion of the Ukraine.
With politicians wrangling over the most diplomatic way to respond to Russia’s aggression, NASA said the space pay-off to the Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos) wouldn’t be affected by politics.
....You see, the US stopped their space missions because they are broke now they have to rely on Russians to take them out of space.
Thats true, its the same Obama who signed the end of the US Shuttle program citing that with Cold war nolonger there the didnt need any space race/compe. Watch here ==== http://www.space.com/252...es-us-russian-crew.html
By the way...i've gone thru BBC and CNN na sijaona any coverage or they are simply implying that this is not news worthy? @murchr.... Actually the Soyuz spacecraft, launched by the Soyuz rocket, is the most frequently used and most reliable launch vehicle in the world to date and presently widely considered the world's safest, most cost-effective human spaceflight system ever as demonstrated by its unparalleled length of operational history, all the way from 1960s. the US tried to match it and at the end gave up... and you know what, that Soyuz rocket system was initially designed to deliver ICBMs When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Putin is a KGB thug, that's what make him so dangerous, if every other leader followed his path, he would be neutralized but at what cost to the world?.....Not necessary, let him be a world power!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/9/2008 Posts: 2,824
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symbols wrote:nakujua wrote:@innairobi usijaribu kupingana na Hollywood/western media reinforced googles, those things are more powerful than those tu nuclear bombs the us or russia has. Indeed. kama hizi za @jah man  McReggae wrote:Putin is a KGB thug, that's what make him so dangerous, if every other leader followed his path, he would be neutralized but at what cost to the world?.....Not necessary, let him be a world power!!!! When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
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