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Alfie the dodo
Kaigangio
#601 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:23:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
jguru wrote:
murchr wrote:
Treatment doesnt have to be in hospitals, those ambulances can be used as mobile clinics once in a while. But dakitari jguru, what is wrong with a location having an ambulance? I dont understand this negative reception maybe because in places where @kiash lives even the local fire-station has its own ambulance leave alone the hospitals. The reasoning being that no one should ever die because he could not reach to any health facility. So saidia mimi to understand why its un-viable to have 1 ambulance in a locale.


We are a country of limited resources. Akina @Kimuhu can afford to have world class health care even in a local ward.

Those ambulances have a stretcher and a couple of seats at the back. No monitors, no medical equipment, no emergency drugs. This reduces them to just normal matatus. A proper ambulance is like a mobile ICU (AAR, Red Cross etc). You can do emergency surgery in them.

My problem is that decisions are being made for political expediency and as an avenue to eat. We are just sewing patches onto a dress instead of proper planning, involving stakeholders in healthcare (who have a firm understanding of evidence based practice) and coming up with a proper healthcare reform plan (coming up with a new dress).


Exactly!!! We don't have the kind of resources needed to run or keep this fleet of ambulances on the roads, that includes the staff.

Why not construct or stock up a dispensary and fully equip the existing hospitals. In the long term you may find that you don't need all those ambulances.

What Gov. Mutua is doing here is just politics with due disregard to the professional advice from the experts if he ever consulted...

On a light note, the kshs 2.8 that Mutua spent on Mutulas burial would have been enough to construct a whole finished structure of a dispensary somewhere in Mwala.

...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Robinhood
#602 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:33:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
Asi!! The bile flowing here bana!! One would think kina kabuffalo are heroes. We stand behind Mutua and are sure that most of the noise makers here wish he were their Gavana
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
alma
#603 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:43:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Can the people giving excellent advice on filling dispensaries with medicine and giving the youth jobs please advice us on how far their own gafana has done in those areas.

Since your gafana did not waste money like Mutua on useless things like recreation centres and ambulances, what did he do for you?

Please advice without mentioning Mr. Mutua. Anza insha yako na

My gafana has ......

Then we can judge your wisdom vs ours.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
AlphDoti
#604 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:51:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
alma wrote:
Can the people giving excellent advice on filling dispensaries with medicine and giving the youth jobs please advice us on how far their own gafana has done in those areas.

Since your gafana did not waste money like Mutua on useless things like recreation centres and ambulances, what did he do for you?

Please advice without mentioning Mr. Mutua. Anza insha yako na

My gafana has ......

Then we can judge your wisdom vs ours.

My thoughts exactly Applause Applause
jaggernaut
#605 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:52:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
Robinhood wrote:
Asi!! The bile flowing here bana!! One would think kina kabuffalo are heroes. We stand behind Mutua and are sure that most of the noise makers here wish he were their Gavana

We should be seeing photos of Mutua

1. supplying drugs and medical equipment to hospitals and rural dispensaries

2. drilling more boreholes to solve water problems in machakos,

3. launching irrigation projects (using the boreholes) to increase food security

4. flagging off graders to rehabilitate rural access roads

5. Taking electricity to rural shopping centres to help youth employment

6. building more youth polytechnics to equip the youth with skills

7. equipping schools to improve performance

8. putting in place water and sewerage services in the townships .....including mlolongo and SYOKIMAU!

etc

etc

Development has to be bottom - up.....not parading fleets of ambulances and patrol cars which will be a drain on the county.
segemia
#606 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:52:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 658
alma wrote:
Can the people giving excellent advice on filling dispensaries with medicine and giving the youth jobs please advice us on how far their own gafana has done in those areas.

Since your gafana did not waste money like Mutua on useless things like recreation centres and ambulances, what did he do for you?

Please advice without mentioning Mr. Mutua. Anza insha yako na

My gafana has ......

Then we can judge your wisdom vs ours.


My ngafana started and completed a major project that no other ngafana has achieved so far. Slapping a woman and paying millions for it!
alma
#607 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:57:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
jaggernaut wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Asi!! The bile flowing here bana!! One would think kina kabuffalo are heroes. We stand behind Mutua and are sure that most of the noise makers here wish he were their Gavana

We should be seeing photos of Mutua

1. supplying drugs and medical equipment to hospitals

2. drilling more boreholes to solve water problems in machakos,

3. launching irrigation projects (using the boreholes) to increase food security

4. flagging off graders to rehabilitate rural access roads

5. Taking electricity to rural shopping centres to help youth employment

6. building more youth polytechnics to equip the youth with skills

7. equipping schools to improve performance

etc

etc

Development has to be bottom - up.....not parading fleets of ambulances and patrol cars which will be a drain on the county.


No no jaggman that was not the insha I was asking for. I was asking in the line of segemia's post.

But if all you want to see are photos, talk to his communication guy, he's very good on twirra.

I'll contact him for you and ask him to set up accounts on Pinterest and Flickr.

Please start you insha again.

My gafana has.......
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Much Know
#608 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:57:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
alma wrote:

Since your gafana did not waste money like Mutua on useless things like recreation centres and ambulances, what did he do for you?

Maybe you don't know that we are all Kenyans first before you try introduce this "my governor/your governor" argument, for example i have investments in Machakos, though i voted and live in Nairobi, I may also have interest elsewhere within the country. Finally, who told you Mutua doesn't want criticism? He has responded to a lot of it, and even admitted to mistakes pointed out so don't "pretend" to speak on his behalf simply because you feel sorry for him (or feel the URGE to take sides) and want to "saidia" him here, here we debate freely.
A New Kenya
alma
#609 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:06:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Much Know wrote:
alma wrote:

Since your gafana did not waste money like Mutua on useless things like recreation centres and ambulances, what did he do for you?

Maybe you don't know that we are all Kenyans first before you try introduce this "my governor/your governor" argument, for example i have investments in Machakos, though i voted and live in Nairobi, I may also have interest elsewhere within the country. Finally, who told you Mutua doesn't want criticism? He has responded to a lot of it, so don't "pretend" to speak on his behalf simply because you feel sorry for him (or feel the URGE to take sides) and want to "saidia" him here, here we debate freely.


much know, now I know your gafana is Kidero. That's your gafana. He's also mine.

I'm not feeling sorry for anyone, but its getting interesting seeing a lynch mob gathering.

If you agree that he listens to criticism then you should be so lucky. Please try criticize simonkabz gafana.

He's done a good job. Of course he can do more. He surely can do more otherwise he's not going to be a great gafana.

But that far, these "criticism" are bordering on envy. Which is particularly interesting since you don't even come from his county.

We the wannabe machakoians are looking and wondering, sasa hi kubafu yangu ya gafana, when will he ever buy 1 ambulance that has all the amenities of an AAR health centre.

Just one.

Afadhali hata mikokoteni ya mayakos.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
jaggernaut
#610 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:15:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
alma wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Asi!! The bile flowing here bana!! One would think kina kabuffalo are heroes. We stand behind Mutua and are sure that most of the noise makers here wish he were their Gavana

We should be seeing photos of Mutua

1. supplying drugs and medical equipment to hospitals

2. drilling more boreholes to solve water problems in machakos,

3. launching irrigation projects (using the boreholes) to increase food security

4. flagging off graders to rehabilitate rural access roads

5. Taking electricity to rural shopping centres to help youth employment

6. building more youth polytechnics to equip the youth with skills

7. equipping schools to improve performance

etc

etc

Development has to be bottom - up.....not parading fleets of ambulances and patrol cars which will be a drain on the county.


No no jaggman that was not the insha I was asking for. I was asking in the line of segemia's post.

But if all you want to see are photos, talk to his communication guy, he's very good on twirra.

I'll contact him for you and ask him to set up accounts on Pinterest and Flickr.

Please start you insha again.

My gafana has.......


What will help "us syokimau residents" more.....is it sewer, roads, schools, hospital, waste management or amphitheatre, patrol cars, ambulances etc? What about "Syombua" deep in yatta, what are her priorities?
nakujua
#611 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:23:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
it's easier to ferry critically ill patient to a central well equipped hospital than equip all dispensaries in a county upto the same standard as the level [1-5] hospitals.

As for security, it's easier to discourage those involved in crime by putting in place measures that will easily lead to their arrest than providing all of them with jobs - at lest when the crime path becomes harder the criminals will put to good use their criminal minds.

as for roads, it's easier to give the bigger populace hope by having nice parks and cleaner towns than building roads all over which I am sure the budget would be very huge - and its worse to discriminate some areas, so watu wote waende kwa park. smile
alma
#612 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:23:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
great question jagman. I guess you guys are at least lucky you can ask "do we want this or that first".

I on the other hand live a life of wondering, "will he slap my wife today or magigi's"

Would you rather be me or you?
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Robinhood
#613 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:33:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
alma wrote:
great question jagman. I guess you guys are at least lucky you can ask "do we want this or that first".

I on the other hand live a life of wondering, "will he slap my wife today or magigi's"

Would you rather be me or you?


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
McReggae
#614 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:37:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Appreciating Alfie combined with positive criticism is fine with me!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Much Know
#615 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:45:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
alma wrote:
great question jagman. I guess you guys are at least lucky you can ask "do we want this or that first".

I on the other hand live a life of wondering, "will he slap my wife today or magigi's"

Would you rather be me or you?

No real Kenyan, African man would rather be you. Welcome to Africa, where we don't solve problems with atomic bombs, court cases, a million demonstrations, you meet and forgive each other, remember you are in Africa, Shebesh (the victim) has forgiven Kidero, why cling on the issue? 1
Enda usome constitution, these majuu hangdowns?

TRADITIONAL DISPUTE RESOLUTION MECHANISMS
UNDER
ARTICLE 159 OF THE CONSTITUTION
OF KENYA
2010.
A New Kenya
ecstacy
#616 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:55:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Have most of the critics even bothered to listen to Gov Mutua's responses to the report so far? Niliwapatia live link ya Citizen at 7 jana as an example we listen and equally deliberate from there.

Please move from that initial point of opposition and listen to his right of reply for basis of a progressive discussion.

He addresses the project sustainability issues and more conclusively than what is insinuated by the critics here.
alma
#617 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:58:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
I don't know where I came in the conversation...again.

I was just expressing a view that as much as Syokimau residents would rather have working sewage, they are just lucky they don't have a slapping governor.

You should see the sewage in South C. It's on the roads and curbs. That is what my gafana has done for me.

We have the most useless gafana in the world and for me the worst ward rep who was elected coz she's in ODM.

So forgive me if I think that slow man from mayakos with his mikokotenis is a much better deal than what I got. Forgive me for thinking that a man who has done nothing but ride around with a kingori jumping traffic and slapping women isn't supposed to be a gafana.

What has Kidero done lately?

Bring me that lazy gafana from Mayakos who's taking very good photos.Doesn't understand bottom up development, hasn't built a hospital or created gabbions.

I would rather him than my gafana.

(you see much know. My insha said what my gafana has done for me and didn't mention the name mutua)
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
jguru
#618 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 6:05:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
nakujua wrote:
it's easier to ferry critically ill patient to a central well equipped hospital than equip all dispensaries in a county upto the same standard as the level [1-5] hospitals.

As for security, it's easier to discourage those involved in crime by putting in place measures that will easily lead to their arrest than providing all of them with jobs - at lest when the crime path becomes harder the criminals will put to good use their criminal minds.

as for roads, it's easier to give the bigger populace hope by having nice parks and cleaner towns than building roads all over which I am sure the budget would be very huge - and its worse to discriminate some areas, so watu wote waende kwa park. smile


Not true at all.
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
murchr
#619 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 6:31:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
jaggernaut wrote:
alma wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Asi!! The bile flowing here bana!! One would think kina kabuffalo are heroes. We stand behind Mutua and are sure that most of the noise makers here wish he were their Gavana

We should be seeing photos of Mutua

1. supplying drugs and medical equipment to hospitals

2. drilling more boreholes to solve water problems in machakos,

3. launching irrigation projects (using the boreholes) to increase food security

4. flagging off graders to rehabilitate rural access roads

5. Taking electricity to rural shopping centres to help youth employment

6. building more youth polytechnics to equip the youth with skills

7. equipping schools to improve performance

etc

etc

Development has to be bottom - up.....not parading fleets of ambulances and patrol cars which will be a drain on the county.


No no jaggman that was not the insha I was asking for. I was asking in the line of segemia's post.

But if all you want to see are photos, talk to his communication guy, he's very good on twirra.

I'll contact him for you and ask him to set up accounts on Pinterest and Flickr.

Please start you insha again.

My gafana has.......


What will help "us syokimau residents" more.....is it sewer, roads, schools, hospital, waste management or amphitheatre, patrol cars, ambulances etc? What about "Syombua" deep in yatta, what are her priorities?


When the year began, the dude was in Yatta desilting the yatta canal. #News that the media wont show u.

In syokimau, he's in conultation with Habitat so that they can come up with a comprehensive urban plan. I read that on his FB page.

Now my question is, are you of the opinion that he should have ignored his Health and Security propositions or what are you saying?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mkenyan
#620 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 7:28:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,883
jguru wrote:
mkenyan wrote:
jguru wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos


Dude, kwani it's personal now? smile

Ambulances have existed in our public hospitals for a very long time. And despite the occasional referral from a level 4 to 5 or a level 5 to KNH, they are most often used to pick and drop doctors and nurses from their homes, carry gas cylinders from BOC, take the admins to the bank and for the occasional haulage of hospital consumables. Fact is, 10% of the overall usage is for non-patient purposes.

The top 5 causes of mortality in Kenya are: HIV/AIDS, lower respiratory tract infections, diarrhoeal disease, TB, Malaria. Improve capacity to deal with these 5 and you'll definitely improve health care significantly.

Trust me, unless you are referring the patients to a large private hospital, KNH will not accept to take a patient that should be manageable in Machakos. Why would KNH admit a road traffic accident patient with broken limbs while Machakos has 3 qualified surgeons on the GoK payroll who can do the operation? Or admit a mother with a complicated pregnancy while there are qualified ObGyns?

So to where are we referring these patients? For CT Scans, MRIs and labs in Nairobi?

so what would be wrong in having ambulances that can take machakos residents to see those qualified surgeons in machakos...i mean they are already there. or you want ten more to be hired before ambulances are bought? and given that it seems machakos county is already working on improving infrastructure and health facilities did you want mutua to wait and buy the ambulances only after the first two have been completed?


Because the hospital has no blood, no gloves, no sutures, no blades, no pain meds, no antibiotics, no sterile gauze, no intra-op monitors, no anaesthetist, water ran out last week and all the theater nurses are on maternity leave.

Fix the health institutions first before buying 80 vehicular contraptions.

is that true of machakos hospitals? from your own observation?
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