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Alfie the dodo
poundfoolish
#561 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:28:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Kaigangio wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos.



@jguru is very right on this...

looking at the bigger picture, equipping the hospital comes first. That is, stocking it with the necessary basic drugs (not aspirin, panadols and malaraquin), having a fully functional and efficient in-patient and out-patient departments with complete basic facilities (not just stethoscopes, sphygmomanometers, a clinical officer and a nurse), having a fully functional hospital residential facilities (not just ricketty beds with tattered beddings, under equipped and crumbling catering facility etc) and lastly having adequate, committed, well motivated medical staff...

In fact many deaths in public hospitals occur in in-patient and not the emergency cases being dealt with by the ambulances...

If I were Gov. Mutua i would have dealt with strengthening the dispensaries at the ward level first by fully equipping them to deal with all health cases as a first line of defense...This action alone would reduce the referral cases to Machakos hospital by may be 90% thus easing the pressure on available facilities and staff and allowing the hospital to concentrate only on the predominantly complicated ailments and other genuine emergencies.

It makes absolutely no sense in transporting an expectant mother in an emergency condition all the way from Tala or Mwala to Machakos hospital just because there is no midwifery services or a doctor/nurse and other important facilities related to child birth in the local dispensary...Under such circumstances, you would not expect the new ambulance to last for long. It would be a waste in the long run!


Phewks.. Thanks Kaigangio.

Atleast somebody who gets what some of us are trying to argue out.
Whats the purpose of Ambulances that will come get stuck at the Nyayo stadium roundabout after a bumpy ride from a village in Yatta?
What if all 70 of them arrived at Kenyatta at the same time. does Kenyatta have the capacity to handle 70 emergencies? The bills that follow?

Infact for me i would have said he starts with the roads first. Even if it meant a good portion of the year's county budget goes to improving of roads. The value of the entire land in Machakos county would triple.
Access would attract all sorts of investors. from schools to health facilities to Nairobbers tied of living in this city.

As the roads are being upgraded, he should be flooding the media with ground breaking ceremonies of constructions (health facilities) et al.
The stadiums and parks angeachia media to find out for themselves as he talks to Muthoni the drama queen and King'ang'i to host their events there for free.

But i understand. Kenyans are yearning for a success story. something that works. and they want to create one. sadly its a Communications Dr. giving us the much needed PR
Swenani
#562 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:29:16 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Much Know wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos.



@jguru is very right on this...

looking at the bigger picture, equipping the hospital comes first. That is, stocking it with the necessary basic drugs (not aspirin, panadols and malaraquin), having a fully functional and efficient in-patient and out-patient departments with complete basic facilities (not just stethoscopes, sphygmomanometers, a clinical officer and a nurse), having a fully functional hospital residential facilities (not just ricketty beds with tattered beddings, under equipped and crumbling catering facility etc) and lastly having adequate, committed, well motivated medical staff...
(Boss, read the whole speech first)

In fact many deaths in public hospitals occur in in-patient and not the emergency cases being dealt with by the ambulances...(source?)

If I were Gov. Mutua i would have dealt with strengthening the dispensaries at the ward level first by fully equipping them to deal with all health cases as a first line of defense(did you read his speech)...This action alone would reduce the referral cases to Machakos hospital by may be 90% thus easing the pressure on available facilities and staff and allowing the hospital to concentrate only on the predominantly complicated ailments and other genuine emergencies.

[color=blue]It makes absolutely no sense in transporting an expectant mother in an emergency condition all the way from Tala or Mwala to Machakos hospital just because there is no midwifery services or a doctor/nurse and other important facilities related to child birth in the local dispensary[/color](so its better to wait for 6-12 months for construction of a dispensary than to offer ambulance services?if you read his speech you will see that each ward will ahev a dispensary by August 2014)...Under such circumstances, you would not expect the new ambulance to last for long. It would be a waste in the long run!


His speech is a 'disaster' and will nail him with senate!


How?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
mkeiy
#563 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:31:33 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
Kaigangio wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos.



@jguru is very right on this...

looking at the bigger picture, equipping the hospital comes first. That is, stocking it with the necessary basic drugs (not aspirin, panadols and malaraquin), having a fully functional and efficient in-patient and out-patient departments with complete basic facilities (not just stethoscopes, sphygmomanometers, a clinical officer and a nurse), having a fully functional hospital residential facilities (not just ricketty beds with tattered beddings, under equipped and crumbling catering facility etc) and lastly having adequate, committed, well motivated medical staff...

In fact many deaths in public hospitals occur in in-patient and not the emergency cases being dealt with by the ambulances...

If I were Gov. Mutua i would have dealt with strengthening the dispensaries at the ward level first by fully equipping them to deal with all health cases as a first line of defense...This action alone would reduce the referral cases to Machakos hospital by may be 90% thus easing the pressure on available facilities and staff and allowing the hospital to concentrate only on the predominantly complicated ailments and other genuine emergencies.

It makes absolutely no sense in transporting an expectant mother in an emergency condition all the way from Tala or Mwala to Machakos hospital just because there is no midwifery services or a doctor/nurse and other important facilities related to child birth in the local dispensary...Under such circumstances, you would not expect the new ambulance to last for long. It would be a waste in the long run!

@Kaigangio, What you don't know, ask.
Which Machakos are you talking about? People suffer coz they can't access even the health facilities within the division, more so pregnant women.

But for you, i gather one must die to deserve an ambulance.

I'm happy with my governor.
I'm sure you are so happy with yours and that's why you want Mutua to improve. He will, give him time.
washiku
#564 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:38:25 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Swenani wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos.



@jguru is very right on this...

looking at the bigger picture, equipping the hospital comes first. That is, stocking it with the necessary basic drugs (not aspirin, panadols and malaraquin), having a fully functional and efficient in-patient and out-patient departments with complete basic facilities (not just stethoscopes, sphygmomanometers, a clinical officer and a nurse), having a fully functional hospital residential facilities (not just ricketty beds with tattered beddings, under equipped and crumbling catering facility etc) and lastly having adequate, committed, well motivated medical staff...
(Boss, read the whole speech first)

In fact many deaths in public hospitals occur in in-patient and not the emergency cases being dealt with by the ambulances...(source?)

If I were Gov. Mutua i would have dealt with strengthening the dispensaries at the ward level first by fully equipping them to deal with all health cases as a first line of defense(did you read his speech)...This action alone would reduce the referral cases to Machakos hospital by may be 90% thus easing the pressure on available facilities and staff and allowing the hospital to concentrate only on the predominantly complicated ailments and other genuine emergencies.

[color=blue]It makes absolutely no sense in transporting an expectant mother in an emergency condition all the way from Tala or Mwala to Machakos hospital just because there is no midwifery services or a doctor/nurse and other important facilities related to child birth in the local dispensary[/color](so its better to wait for 6-12 months for construction of a dispensary than to offer ambulance services?if you read his speech you will see that each ward will ahev a dispensary by August 2014)...Under such circumstances, you would not expect the new ambulance to last for long. It would be a waste in the long run!



Exactly. I wonder why people think Mutua has not thought of those things. If only we could give him time...If buying a car takes one month and building a hospital takes 4 months, yet there are enough funds for each, why cant the whole process begin at the same time? Its obvious it takes longer to build a building than to buy a motor vehicle.
simonkabz
#565 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:02:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
All these things people are busy shouting priority are underway. Kwani watu hawajui kusoma jamaneni?
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Swenani
#566 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:04:38 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
simonkabz wrote:
All these things people are busy shouting priority are underway. Kwani watu hawajui kusoma jamaneni?


People like making noise for the sake of it
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
mkeiy
#567 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:11:22 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
poundfoolish wrote:

What if all 70 of them arrived at Kenyatta at the same time. does Kenyatta have the capacity to handle 70 emergencies? The bills that follow?

Infact for me i would have said he starts with the roads first. Even if it meant a good portion of the year's county budget goes to improving of roads. The value of the entire land in Machakos county would triple.
Access would attract all sorts of investors. from schools to health facilities to Nairobbers tied of living in this city.

As the roads are being upgraded, he should be flooding the media with ground breaking ceremonies of constructions (health facilities) et al.
The stadiums and parks angeachia media to find out for themselves as he talks to Muthoni the drama queen and King'ang'i to host their events there for free.

But i understand. Kenyans are yearning for a success story. something that works. and they want to create one. sadly its a Communications Dr. giving us the much needed PR


@Poundfoolish. If its nothing personal against Mutua, know this;

Rehabilitation of health facilities is going on[my village health center to begin with].

Roads are being graded and plans for bridges where necessary are being worked on.

That Masaku park will draw in more publicity than the roads and health centers being built which you didn't know of.

What you want for people of Masaku, make it a point to all other counties.

Majority of us Masaku people are happy with our governor and we don't get it, with "foreigners" telling us what's best for us.
You are behaving like the Mzungu, always trying to tell the African what and how to do it.


Lastly i would like to know from you, WHO IS YOUR GOVERNOR?
Much Know
#568 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:12:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
Much Know wrote:
Swenani wrote:

His speech is a 'disaster' and will nail him with senate!


How?

For example, the 250million for relief, when were such functions devolved? I though waiguru has been dealing with relief. The big "change" between the budget for ambulance and the supplied price will raise queries with the whole tendering process. Ama he is a "genius" negotiator better than all businessmen who applied? And many more.
A New Kenya
Swenani
#569 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:26:28 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Much Know wrote:
Much Know wrote:
Swenani wrote:

His speech is a 'disaster' and will nail him with senate!


How?

For example, the 250million for relief, when were such functions devolved? I though waiguru has been dealing with relief. The big "change" between the budget for ambulance and the supplied price will raise queries with the whole tendering process. Ama he is a "genius" negotiator better than all businessmen who applied? And many more.


There is nothing wrong to supplement the central govt efforts.If the COB approves the expenditure and he does proper accounting there is nothing to nail him on.

On the price variance between budgeted and actual; I consider it a positive variance and hence it should cause alarm or do you want to say that you expected the actual to exceed the budgeted so as not to raise queries?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
freiks
#570 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:30:29 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,729
Much Know wrote:
Much Know wrote:
Swenani wrote:

His speech is a 'disaster' and will nail him with senate!


How?

For example, the 250million for relief, when were such functions devolved? I though waiguru has been dealing with relief. The big "change" between the budget for ambulance and the supplied price will raise queries with the whole tendering process. Ama he is a "genius" negotiator better than all businessmen who applied? And many more.


A good question has been raised and i propose that before you comment about Mutua tell us your GAVANA, mine was WAMBORA
Life is an endless adventure
Kaigangio
#571 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:33:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
washiku wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos.



@jguru is very right on this...

looking at the bigger picture, equipping the hospital comes first. That is, stocking it with the necessary basic drugs (not aspirin, panadols and malaraquin), having a fully functional and efficient in-patient and out-patient departments with complete basic facilities (not just stethoscopes, sphygmomanometers, a clinical officer and a nurse), having a fully functional hospital residential facilities (not just ricketty beds with tattered beddings, under equipped and crumbling catering facility etc) and lastly having adequate, committed, well motivated medical staff...
(Boss, read the whole speech first)

In fact many deaths in public hospitals occur in in-patient and not the emergency cases being dealt with by the ambulances...(source?)

If I were Gov. Mutua i would have dealt with strengthening the dispensaries at the ward level first by fully equipping them to deal with all health cases as a first line of defense(did you read his speech)...This action alone would reduce the referral cases to Machakos hospital by may be 90% thus easing the pressure on available facilities and staff and allowing the hospital to concentrate only on the predominantly complicated ailments and other genuine emergencies.

[color=blue]It makes absolutely no sense in transporting an expectant mother in an emergency condition all the way from Tala or Mwala to Machakos hospital just because there is no midwifery services or a doctor/nurse and other important facilities related to child birth in the local dispensary[/color](so its better to wait for 6-12 months for construction of a dispensary than to offer ambulance services?if you read his speech you will see that each ward will ahev a dispensary by August 2014)...Under such circumstances, you would not expect the new ambulance to last for long. It would be a waste in the long run!



Exactly. I wonder why people think Mutua has not thought of those things. If only we could give him time...If buying a car takes one month and building a hospital takes 4 months, yet there are enough funds for each, why cant the whole process begin at the same time? Its obvious it takes longer to build a building than to buy a motor vehicle.


You see guys I can confidently tell you for sure how important a local dispensary is, not the damn ambulance, as I have been treated there before, not once or twice but many times...

I remember very well that during those days in our youth age when the local dispensaries were fully equipped with drugs, a doctor, a clinical officer and nurses plus the relevant physical attributes of a health centre, we did not need to travel all the way from Elburgon to Nakuru General Hospital for referral treatment.

Almost all the health ailments were tackled at the dispensary level and the referral hospital did not have any intensive use of the ambulance. Besides the doctors in the dispensary could make their own assessment on a patient in order to decide whether he/she needed further treatment. At this point the dispensary admin would make arrangements for the ambulance from the referral hospital if it was needed...

All I am trying to say here is this, why not concentrate on that small 10 roomed dispensary first in order to either minimise the probability of the patient getting traumatised and health deterioration arising from that bumpy journey to the hospital or unnecessary use of an ambulance. From what I am reading here, it appears that those places with no dispensaries will need the ambulance to take the patients and other patients to be to referral hospital even for ailments which requires no ambulance.Yes? No?

Nobody is saying Mutua has done badly by buying the ambulance fleet, but the question is will that ambulance improve the health of those people in regions without dispensaries?

...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Much Know
#572 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:38:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
freiks wrote:
Much Know wrote:
Much Know wrote:
Swenani wrote:

His speech is a 'disaster' and will nail him with senate!


How?

For example, the 250million for relief, when were such functions devolved? I though waiguru has been dealing with relief. The big "change" between the budget for ambulance and the supplied price will raise queries with the whole tendering process. Ama he is a "genius" negotiator better than all businessmen who applied? And many more.


A good question has been raised and i propose that before you comment about Mutua tell us your GAVANA, mine was WAMBORA

Mine is KIDERO, and i am happy that he is taking time to do things PROPERLY, in any case he is the only Governor who has raised BILLIONS using his head.
A New Kenya
CLK
#573 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:49:26 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 846
Looking at the positive side of things here.
I see a massive creation of employment with the neat looking nurses and drivers of those ambulances, meanwhile back in my village, someone died on a wheelbarrow trying to get to the dispensary.

I wouldn't care how much he has stolen but atleast he has done something, the more Nairobians visit that park more money for his county, creates business for the locals.

My governor is so useless, he only increased parking fees, i envy the people of Machakos, nitahamia huko.

As for his order of priority, he is a PR person, and a politician, lest you forget.
jguru
#574 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:16:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos


Dude, kwani it's personal now? smile

Ambulances have existed in our public hospitals for a very long time. And despite the occasional referral from a level 4 to 5 or a level 5 to KNH, they are most often used to pick and drop doctors and nurses from their homes, carry gas cylinders from BOC, take the admins to the bank and for the occasional haulage of hospital consumables. Fact is, 10% of the overall usage is for non-patient purposes.

The top 5 causes of mortality in Kenya are: HIV/AIDS, lower respiratory tract infections, diarrhoeal disease, TB, Malaria. Improve capacity to deal with these 5 and you'll definitely improve health care significantly.

Trust me, unless you are referring the patients to a large private hospital, KNH will not accept to take a patient that should be manageable in Machakos. Why would KNH admit a road traffic accident patient with broken limbs while Machakos has 3 qualified surgeons on the GoK payroll who can do the operation? Or admit a mother with a complicated pregnancy while there are qualified ObGyns?

So to where are we referring these patients? For CT Scans, MRIs and labs in Nairobi?
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
jguru
#575 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:20:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
Swenani wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos.



@jguru is very right on this...

looking at the bigger picture, equipping the hospital comes first. That is, stocking it with the necessary basic drugs (not aspirin, panadols and malaraquin), having a fully functional and efficient in-patient and out-patient departments with complete basic facilities (not just stethoscopes, sphygmomanometers, a clinical officer and a nurse), having a fully functional hospital residential facilities (not just ricketty beds with tattered beddings, under equipped and crumbling catering facility etc) and lastly having adequate, committed, well motivated medical staff...
(Boss, read the whole speech first)

In fact many deaths in public hospitals occur in in-patient and not the emergency cases being dealt with by the ambulances...(source?)

If I were Gov. Mutua i would have dealt with strengthening the dispensaries at the ward level first by fully equipping them to deal with all health cases as a first line of defense(did you read his speech)...This action alone would reduce the referral cases to Machakos hospital by may be 90% thus easing the pressure on available facilities and staff and allowing the hospital to concentrate only on the predominantly complicated ailments and other genuine emergencies.

[color=blue]It makes absolutely no sense in transporting an expectant mother in an emergency condition all the way from Tala or Mwala to Machakos hospital just because there is no midwifery services or a doctor/nurse and other important facilities related to child birth in the local dispensary[/color](so its better to wait for 6-12 months for construction of a dispensary than to offer ambulance services?if you read his speech you will see that each ward will ahev a dispensary by August 2014)...Under such circumstances, you would not expect the new ambulance to last for long. It would be a waste in the long run!



It is true most deaths occur in the wards.

It is true the health facilities and health personnel deserved more prioritised attention to improve health care.

And unless an ambulance is equipped like a mobile ICU (like those AAR or Red Cross ones) with qualified EMTs then it is an absolute waste of public funds.

Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
jguru
#576 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:24:21 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
mkeiy wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jguru wrote:
This obsession with ambulances in unbelievable! Since when did having ambulances equate to better health care delivery? What's the point of rushing 5 emergencies to Machakos Level 5 Hospital and having only 2 functional theaters? Those referrals will still die. Why did you shuttle them from Mwala to come die in Machakos? There shall be no improvements in mortality or morbidity.

These ambulances are just an avenue to eat. Period.

And politicians being the attention seekers that they are, having 80 flashy vehicles, going wiu-wiu-wiu all over the county is a sure way of getting votes.


Access to health equates to better health care delivery i think;and thats what mutua is trying to do.can you imagine if kiambu county had an ambulance for each ward,mr thuo could still be alive:so think of the many lives that will be saved on msa rd accidents;pregnant mothers and kifs


What I see from Jguru is either goggle mentality or ignorance of healthcare dynamics. He worries about ambulances which could save lives, he would rather Machakos level 5 hospital was turned into a copy of Nairobi hospital before infrastructure to access it is put in place. In the meantime, people can die in the villages of prevetable diseases until quality healthcare is available. What crap! Improving access and quality will be a long process. I am glad Mutua has taken concrete first steps in this direction. The next step is on quality, and I am sure Mutua has a plan for this too. Rome was not built in one day and neither will Machakos.



@jguru is very right on this...

looking at the bigger picture, equipping the hospital comes first. That is, stocking it with the necessary basic drugs (not aspirin, panadols and malaraquin), having a fully functional and efficient in-patient and out-patient departments with complete basic facilities (not just stethoscopes, sphygmomanometers, a clinical officer and a nurse), having a fully functional hospital residential facilities (not just ricketty beds with tattered beddings, under equipped and crumbling catering facility etc) and lastly having adequate, committed, well motivated medical staff...

In fact many deaths in public hospitals occur in in-patient and not the emergency cases being dealt with by the ambulances...

If I were Gov. Mutua i would have dealt with strengthening the dispensaries at the ward level first by fully equipping them to deal with all health cases as a first line of defense...This action alone would reduce the referral cases to Machakos hospital by may be 90% thus easing the pressure on available facilities and staff and allowing the hospital to concentrate only on the predominantly complicated ailments and other genuine emergencies.

It makes absolutely no sense in transporting an expectant mother in an emergency condition all the way from Tala or Mwala to Machakos hospital just because there is no midwifery services or a doctor/nurse and other important facilities related to child birth in the local dispensary...Under such circumstances, you would not expect the new ambulance to last for long. It would be a waste in the long run!

@Kaigangio, What you don't know, ask.
Which Machakos are you talking about? People suffer coz they can't access even the health facilities within the division, more so pregnant women.

But for you, i gather one must die to deserve an ambulance.

I'm happy with my governor.
I'm sure you are so happy with yours and that's why you want Mutua to improve. He will, give him time.


@mkeiy, I'll ask you a question that was asked:

"Is it better to be taken to a hospital immediately and die in an understaffed and ill equipped hospital OR is it better to die at home since you cannot access a well staffed and equipped hospital?"
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
Angelica _ann
#577 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:40:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
CLK wrote:
Looking at the positive side of things here.
I see a massive creation of employment with the neat looking nurses and drivers of those ambulances, meanwhile back in my village, someone died on a wheelbarrow trying to get to the dispensary.

I wouldn't care how much he has stolen but atleast he has done something, the more Nairobians visit that park more money for his county, creates business for the locals.

My governor is so useless, he only increased parking fees, i envy the people of Machakos, nitahamia huko.

As for his order of priority, he is a PR person, and a politician, lest you forget.

Guys will be idle and start sexing each other in the ambulances creating yet another problem!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
captain kirk
#578 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:49:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/28/2013
Posts: 178
Angelica _ann wrote:
CLK wrote:
Looking at the positive side of things here.
I see a massive creation of employment with the neat looking nurses and drivers of those ambulances, meanwhile back in my village, someone died on a wheelbarrow trying to get to the dispensary.

I wouldn't care how much he has stolen but atleast he has done something, the more Nairobians visit that park more money for his county, creates business for the locals.

My governor is so useless, he only increased parking fees, i envy the people of Machakos, nitahamia huko.

As for his order of priority, he is a PR person, and a politician, lest you forget.

Guys will be idle and start sexing each other in the ambulances creating yet another problem!

Stop giving people ideas.
Swenani
#579 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:51:11 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Angelica _ann wrote:
CLK wrote:
Looking at the positive side of things here.
I see a massive creation of employment with the neat looking nurses and drivers of those ambulances, meanwhile back in my village, someone died on a wheelbarrow trying to get to the dispensary.

I wouldn't care how much he has stolen but atleast he has done something, the more Nairobians visit that park more money for his county, creates business for the locals.

My governor is so useless, he only increased parking fees, i envy the people of Machakos, nitahamia huko.

As for his order of priority, he is a PR person, and a politician, lest you forget.

Guys will be idle and start sexing each other in the ambulances creating yet another problem!


Angelica, Inaonekana unapenda hii mambo sana
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
captain kirk
#580 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:56:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/28/2013
Posts: 178
I am surprised by how gullible some Wazuans are.Qidero is a someone who has managed a big corporation while Mutua is full of theatrics. Activity does not mean progress. How can you even compare the two governors? It is obvious that Mutua is better at selling himself. If Qidero had stolen money the way Alfie has done,people would be up in arms asking for his Wamborament. The difference is clear, one is a manager while the other is an empty shirt. @CLK you can go to Macha, Mutua will give you free land to settle.
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