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Masjid Musa Mosque Mombasa
Muriel
#121 Posted : Friday, February 07, 2014 1:32:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
guru267 wrote:
Muriel wrote:
guru267 wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
More reason as to why religion and non existent gods are the stupidest and most detrimental things on earth. Us atheists are just shaking our heads as we see this stupidity unfolding. We feel sorry for religious people. How weak minded can people be? What exactly are these people fighting for or against? I just don't get it. I really feel sorry for religious people. Really really sorry.


I heard/read somewhere that the overall fight is for the "Third and Final Jerusalem Islamic Caliphate" which will be established by the prophet Jesus(saw)when he descends to Damascus from heaven etc... etc.....

So basically the end game for some of these guys is to rally enough troops to liberate Palestine..


I don't think raiding/closing mosques and shooting youths is the right way to handle the issue!


My antennae went up immediately I read about the "Third and Final Jerusalem Islamic Caliphate".

Especially on the "Third" part ,,,,,,,,,, where and when were the first two? Are you in a position to teach me?


The first Caliphate was established by Prophet Muhammad (saw) and lasted 632 A.D to 661 A.D and covered mainly the Arab world!

The second Caliphate was one of the largest and longest empires ever seen on earth and was from 1301 - 1924... (Ottoman Empire) It span from Europe to Asia to North Africa

Muhammad(saw) predicted there would be only three Islamic Caliphates with the third one being set up by Jesus(saw) in Jerusalem... It will cover the whole globe!



I see.

I read something similar recently. History is indeed fascinating!

Thank you for the information, ma'am.
Alba
#122 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:59:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Caliphates aside, the most direct reason why this happens is because the youth are idle and restless.

Idle because they are jobless and restless because they see the people at the top just eating and becoming richer.

Government must address societal issues. And this is why I keep saying that unless we vote for people whose primary goal is to create jobs. address corruption and address tribalism, we will continue to pay the price with crime, riots and terrorism.

If no jobs available, governments must find other ways to keep these youth busy with positive activities.

On a positive note, 100 youth are going to be charged and some will be offered leniency if they become state witnesses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26013964
Njung'e
#123 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:49:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Alba,
joblessness is one big excuse inasmuch as,it's true,the youth of this country need jobs.We have heard about the same before when Mungiki was at it's "best".You don't hear much about the group nowadays and it's not that they were provided with jobs......and if i may ask,is it that the jobless of Mombasa town attend the same mosque?...and that the tens of 12 year old boys arrested in the Mosque were also out looking for jobs?....C'mon son!You can do better than that.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Alba
#124 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:32:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
@Njunge
No one is saying joblessness is an excuse. There is no excuse for committing crime or terrorism.

However it is a fact that there is a direct correlation between unemployment and crime. Mzungu said long ago "An idle mind is the devil's workshop".

Numerous studies have been done that show a direct correlation between crime and unemployment. A basic Google search will show you plenty.
Here is one:
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/crimwage.htm

If a person is addicted to cigarrettes and he has no money to buy them, what is he going to do ? Of course he will steal.

There is also a direct correlation between hopelessness and suicidal behavior. The reason suicide bombers exist in Palestine is precisely because of the hopelessness brought about by 60% unemployment.

I dont make excuses for criminals. Thats why I said I was happy that 100 people were being arrested. However we are being myopic if we think throwing people in jail will solve everything. You must address underlying issues.

Also you are sorely mistaken if you think Mungiki has gone away. The same youths who would be in Mungiki are now in other gangs like the Gaza group now terrorizing people in Kayole and are soon coming to a neighborhood near you.

After the Police deal with Gaza, people like Njunge might celebrate that Gaza has been finished. Kumbe it will just morph into another gang. On and on. There will be new gangs every 6 months or so.

Until we deal with issues like unemployment, corruption and tribalism, crime is here to stay. Whether its Mungiki , Gaza or the hundreds of carjackers and robbers visiting terror on Kenyans.

And the coastal youth will soon be infiltrated by Al Qaeda and will soon become more dangerous. These are the kind of desparate youth that Al Qaeda likes to prey on.
guru267
#125 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:30:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Those who are shouting unemployment and idleness are forever naive Sad

Usama Bin Laden was an heir to 300 million US dollars, Anwar Al Waki was an fully fledged engineer and the current Al queda head is a professor....

Haven't you all wondered why these "terrorists" would give everything up to fight and die for the fight?? Was it unemployment or idleness??

I doubt GOK will shoot their way out of this!

Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Alba
#126 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:56:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Guru don't make people laugh. You are in denial.

Usama is not the terrorist he is the financier. Al Awlaki is the brains. He was not the one out their strapping bombs to himself.

The actual terrorists do not have the millions you speak of. The average suicide bomber or Jihadi is broke, depressed, jobless and hopeless to the point that it is very easy to brainwash them by telling them that you would be better off in paradise with 72 virgins than to continue to suffer on earth broke, hopeless and jobless.

In fact Makaburi and Rogo preyed on poor youth. See the excerpt from the article below

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24263357

Quote:
Khalid said it was Sheikh Rogo who encouraged him to travel to Somalia and become a jihadi.

"He used to tell us: 'Instead of sitting in the slum doing nothing, it's better to go to Somalia and fight for your religion, you'll go straight to heaven.'"


Cases of rich kids becoming Jihadis are the rare exception.
Njung'e
#127 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:45:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Alba,
I think you have some honesty which i like and if everybody was to own up as you do,fighting criminality/terrorism would be very easy.That is not what our so called leaders are doing and if i may,can i quote Omar Hassan,Abdulswalmad Nassir,Lethome and the many more Islamic hypocrites who won't say a word when other Kenyans are attacked by Islamic terrorists but are soon on their feet when a Mosque is raided by law enforcers to bring down a non-Kenyan flag or Annihilate a gun totting Sheikh?....Let's just say Kenyans can put up with a terrorist attack here and there when our law enforcers are caught napping however painful it is....let's just say Chritians will take the burning of their worshipping places by Muslims with pain but still trudge on.Let's say too,that a Christian church leader killed by Islamic terrorists is as human.Let's condemn all this acts with equal measure.Let Muslims be as silent during Masjid Musa cleansing as they did during the WestaGate attack.At least if they did that,we will not notice their silent cheers.Let's be honest and accept that amongst as,there are honorable hypocrites.Let's just say we do not mind as long as they do not show it openly.Let's just wish they could keep their hypocrisy to themselves and hope that the terrorism they so silently cheer up will one day come back and eat their spouses and children.Let's pray for that! Ama?
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
kollabo
#128 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:38:15 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2012
Posts: 1,317
[quote=Alba]Caliphates aside, the most direct reason why this happens is because the youth are idle and restless.

Idle because they are jobless and restless because they see the people at the top just eating and becoming richer.

Government must address societal issues. And this is why I keep saying that unless we vote for people whose primary goal is to create jobs. address corruption and address tribalism, we will continue to pay the price with crime, riots and terrorism.

If no jobs available, governments must find other ways to keep these youth busy with positive activities.

On a positive note, 100 youth are going to be charged and some will be offered leniency if they become state witnesses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26013964[/quote]

Please look for another excuse
Muriel
#129 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 10:09:25 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Quote:
[quote=Alba]Caliphates aside, the most direct reason why this happens is because the youth are idle and restless.

Idle because they are jobless and restless because they see the people at the top just eating and becoming richer.

Government must address societal issues. And this is why I keep saying that unless we vote for people whose primary goal is to create jobs. address corruption and address tribalism, we will continue to pay the price with crime, riots and terrorism.

If no jobs available, governments must find other ways to keep these youth busy with positive activities.

On a positive note, 100 youth are going to be charged and some will be offered leniency if they become state witnesses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26013964[/quote]


Pushing the caliphates aside is to totally misunderstand the grand picture.

The 1st and 2nd caliphates were established without reference to the current employment statistics.

So in like manner will the illusionary 3rd caliphate be attempted ,,,,,,,,, attempted. Attempted.

Sunnism, wahabism is independent of NGO 'socio-political' speak.
Muriel
#130 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 10:34:50 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
guru267 wrote:
Those who are shouting unemployment and idleness are forever naive Sad

Usama Bin Laden was an heir to 300 million US dollars, Anwar Al Waki was an fully fledged engineer and the current Al queda head is a professor....

Haven't you all wondered why these "terrorists" would give everything up to fight and die for the fight?? Was it unemployment or idleness??

I doubt GOK will shoot their way out of this!




You and I are in agreement.
tycho
#131 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:22:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Terrorism is a tool for establishing world order. The cries of the weak fuel the spread of government and control of individuals, who'd rather surrender their freedom for 'security'.

The war against terror is a clever way of subduing the individual and emasculating him, and it's so well arranged that one finds it hard to resist.

poundfoolish
#132 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:18:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Alba wrote:
Guru don't make people laugh. You are in denial.

Usama is not the terrorist he is the financier. Al Awlaki is the brains. He was not the one out their strapping bombs to himself.

The actual terrorists do not have the millions you speak of. The average suicide bomber or Jihadi is broke, depressed, jobless and hopeless to the point that it is very easy to brainwash them by telling them that you would be better off in paradise with 72 virgins than to continue to suffer on earth broke, hopeless and jobless.

In fact Makaburi and Rogo preyed on poor youth. See the excerpt from the article below

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24263357

Quote:
Khalid said it was Sheikh Rogo who encouraged him to travel to Somalia and become a jihadi.

"He used to tell us: 'Instead of sitting in the slum doing nothing, it's better to go to Somalia and fight for your religion, you'll go straight to heaven.'"


Cases of rich kids becoming Jihadis are the rare exception.


And it is those big kahuna's who are the easiest to crack when caught.
In an interview with the BBC, a former CIA information retriever said of how the bigshots always talk, ready to make a deal but the foot soldiers? Now those he called idiots! they are brainwashed and harder nuts to crack
Obi 1 Kanobi
#133 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:30:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
tycho wrote:
Terrorism is a tool for establishing world order. The cries of the weak fuel the spread of government and control of individuals, who'd rather surrender their freedom for 'security'.

The war against terror is a clever way of subduing the individual and emasculating him, and it's so well arranged that one finds it hard to resist.



I much prefer to look at it as the only way to keep us safe.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Muriel
#134 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:57:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
Terrorism is a tool for establishing world order. The cries of the weak fuel the spread of government and control of individuals, who'd rather surrender their freedom for 'security'.

The war against terror is a clever way of subduing the individual and emasculating him, and it's so well arranged that one finds it hard to resist.




You too and I are in agreement, so far.

About the how. Perhaps also about the who.
AlphDoti
#135 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 4:45:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
@guka I think you didn't read our posts at the time of Westgate attack. This same allegation you made is exactly what I have been trying to clarify to this community of @Wazua d'oh!

As far as terrorism is concerned, it is wrong 1001 and it should be fought, in the right manner! Many Muslims came out and condemned the attack, and Adam Hajji even came on TV and clarified many misconceptions. Besides, many Muslims died from that attack, you saw many being buried that weekend on Sunday and Monday!

But to kill people like dogs yet when they were arrested they were released without charges because there were concrete evidence is very, very wrong. Why are these seen as targeting
the Muslims for harassment, illegal arrests, detention and killing? Why is a government with laws and judiciary bypassing the normal rules of evidence? Adopting presumption of guilt
just on the basis of mere suspicion of involvement in terrorism. This is violation of the principle of non-discrimination and fair trial standards.

Oh @guka, Oh Wazuans are people guilty just because they are Muslims? And you celebrate because it is not your son? Because it is not your daughter?
Alba
#136 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 4:54:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Muriel wrote:



Pushing the caliphates aside is to totally misunderstand the grand picture.

The 1st and 2nd caliphates were established without reference to the current employment statistics.

So in like manner will the illusionary 3rd caliphate be attempted ,,,,,,,,, attempted. Attempted.

Sunnism, wahabism is independent of NGO 'socio-political' speak.


I am not denying the role of caliphates. But caliphates are the secondary issue. It is easier to brainwash youth when they are idle, jobless and depressed about their situation. You do this by telling them their situation is hopeless but if they go out and fight they will make the world better for muslims. It gives them a sense of purpose.

There is a a lot of anger in these youth. It is the kind of anger that cannot just be caused by caliphates. They are angry about their lot in life.

Many on Wazua have never experienced genuine hoplessnees and thus cannot relate.

If these youth were busy in positive activities like jobs, school, sports etc, they would have a purpose in life.

You can throw all these youth in jail but unless you take steps to address underlying issues, militancy will keep coming up. Kenyans are going to have to come to terms with the fact that our political system and our culture of accepting thievery and corruption is one of the root causes of crime and militancy.

We have millions of unemployed youth in Kenya. It is a population bomb that is starting to explode in crime and militancy. Either we hold leaders accountable to solve it or we continue to vote based on tribe and look this bomb in theface
AlphDoti
#137 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:41:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
@alba I would read Western reports with a pinch of salt. I have not forgotten how CNN lied about Kenya during the eve of last election!!

I don't say they lie, I don't say they tell truth all the time either. Don't you think it is possible that the reporter is conveniently choosing what he wants us to hear? Similar to cases we have seen before where they chose a point from where the clip should play?

I remember once in Wazua we up and arms complaining about some local TV stations conveniently showing a clip half-way to pass a certain unintended message. We compared full clip in another station and the meaning was totally different.

What you're quoting is what the reporter has put in place for you. That is a 3rd party statement. Just like somebody coming to you and say: He told me that he told him that blah blah... It is like saying Tom said that Dick told him that Harry said that "blah blah".

It is simply hearsay. We can't prove that boy was even told that. We can't prove that Rogo told the boys that.
washiku
#138 Posted : Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:53:31 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Ms Mkenya wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Peppy wrote:
And when David if finally arrested by the Police, you do not see the Head of the PCEA/Anglican Church holding a press conference castigating the police for arresting one of their lost sheep.

kweli kabisa. Muslims like playin victim. Some preacher on KTN just said they have a right to have jihadist preachings and flying whichever flag they want to. Ati that flag is not yet criminalised!



Thanks Makaburi. He is allied to the late Sheikh Aboud Rogo


Today that Makaburi guy was being interviewed on Easy fm. On being asked why those boys were having Alshabaab flags, he said they had it because its not illegal to have the flags, no law prohibits any Kenyan from having any flag whatsover. On being told that Alshabaab are bad people who have hurt our country in the past, he said if doing anything Alshabaab does is wrong, probably then we should stop doing everything else that Alshabaab does. Like eating and drinking.

I gave up. How can you reason with such a person?
murchr
#139 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:39:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
I was promised Sh1m to plant bombs in churches, says porter

Quote:
“They took us to a room in the compound of the mosque, where we stayed while arrangements were made for us to take up our new jobs. Soon after, an Islamic preacher started offering us Islamic teachings.”

Mr Masero comes from Ikolomani constituency in Kakamega County and said their full names, national identity card numbers and places of birth were taken by their “hosts” who said that they would use the information to get in touch with their families should anything bad happen to them.

“A number of days later, they told us that they would pay us Sh1 million each if we accomplished an undisclosed assignment. When we demanded that they pay us half up front and deposit the balance in our bank accounts, they flatly refused.

“They then told us that they wanted us to plant explosives in two churches and a supermarket in Nairobi. The targets were the Neno Evangelism on Haile Sellassie Avenue and the Holy Family Basilica and one of the Nakumatt branches in the central business district ,” he said....................................................One of the recruits identified as Moses Shirongo openly disagreed with the “Islamic preachers” over the plan to plant the bombs and was taken away, never to return, said Mr Masero.

“They took him away and returned with his clothes, telling us that we would never see him again. We don’t know what happened to him.”

Mr Masero said he escaped from “captivity” last week after sneaking out of the room during prayers for a man who had died.

“I hiked lifts in long-distance trucks all the way from Mombasa to Nairobi. “I don’t know what will happen to the other four young men I left behind. I am ready to show police the mosque where they are being kept if my safety is guaranteed,” he said.


Now i wonder IF 1. HE SHOWED THE POLICE THAT MOSQUE 2. IF THIS NEWSPAPERS WENT ON TO PRINT B4 INVESTIGATIONS WERE CARRIED OUT.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Bigchick
#140 Posted : Thursday, June 05, 2014 6:23:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/8/2013
Posts: 4,068
Location: At Large.
Na nguvu zote za giza zitashindwa.

We want to hear more.

Meanwhile families with missing relatives should report to authorities and thorough search done.

Also neighbours should report "Siku hizi Nandai haonekani hapa na hatujui alienda wapi".

Yes, I also pray the report will not jeopardise the investigations.
Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
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