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wairegi
#21 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:21:25 AM
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Joined: 6/4/2007
Posts: 215
Kaigangio wrote:
wairegi wrote:
As many have contributed this is a good venture..for hobby the hives can be as simple as the African pot, the round 20 litres tins(Need to insulate against the heat during. Lagging with glass or old sisal sacks will do. The african log hive not so common this days. For the topbar and langstroth hive they are both costly but yields are better.
We currently improving of the top bar and the other less improvised hives by separating the hive into two and confining the queen to brooding area with an extruder. The second potion of the hive will have honey and with the ' maanas' or the larvae and yield will be more. Practically we are able to get 10kg of honey per hive in a good season and two seasons can get as much as 20 or 15kg. Building the colonies moss moss.
Bees can be trained just like dogs and the rest of the animals. our hives are less 20 metres from the house with one less than 10 meters from the house. Unless disturb they don't bit. Retailing our honey at 500 sh per kg. The demand is huge


@ wairegi

unless you are constructing the top bar hive with hardwood and foundation frames, it is generally cheap to construct...also as a correction once the queen has been confined into her own chamber with her own comb, there is no way she can venture into the honey chamber and as such, on harvesting there will be no brood in the honey comb...just honey and wax.

If i may ask..for the improved top bar hive,

1. What is the overall size of the hive?

There are no particular configuration on the size of the hive as the colonies sizes also differ in size. And the construction were doing were mostly based on availability of the materials.

2. What are the optimised sizes of the brood chambers?

Just did our brood chambers by 1/3rd of the whole hive. The brood chambers are too big the bees will first build the combs and fill in the brood chamber before filling the other chamber. The good side of it that you swam size will always seek a new home when they are too big for the hive

3. Are you subdividing the honey chamber into further smaller ones?

The honey chamber is not further divide. But access is made possible for regular inspection without disturbing the bees.

4. Are you using any frames in the brood and honey chambers?

We did the wooden frame to hold the combs and were not very effective. The bees will most the time build across the frames defeating the whole purpose of halving the frame

5. What is the size of the mesh window for the queen excluder?

Will confirm this for you; just picked a mesh that looked similar to the ones in the langstroth hives

6. How do you handle bee swarming in this type of hive?

Mostly, swaming can be cause of disturbed by ants and other animals and poor harvesting i.e you remove everything and leave the bees without anything. If there no adequate shelter i.e the inside temperature in the hive too much..

have you ever tried the langstroth beehive?

Yes 4 month yet to do the first harvest.



You learn a lot through the doing and finding local solution. It is not strange you can share a shelter with bees. The most wild bees will be found located very much away from humans.
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Kaigangio
#22 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:24:01 AM
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Joined: 2/27/2007
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Kaka M wrote:
C & P (between 2k to 5k bees for a start which i think is good enough.)

How do you count this bees without them stinging?( pun intended) Meanwhile Check Shamba shape up in facebook, and I think they have a website too. In FB also a number of members(institutions) discuss about farming, you could see if they have discussions about bee keeping.


@ Kaka

From what i am gathering it seems we don't have any bee breeders here in kenya and that the only way to start a colony in a bee hive is waiting for a swarm to colonize it.

A swarm may contain anywhere between 100 to 15,000 bees depending on the source..for example if a nearby hive has swarmed and the owner did not capture it, then it is very likely that this is a primary swarm and it may contain between 10k to 15k bees (sadly for the original owner). Sometimes the remaining bees in the hive may swarm again if the swarming conditions still persist and the cast (secondary) swarm will have even less bees typically between 2k to 10k bees.

I therefore figured that the common typical quantity of a swarm here in kenya is in the range of 2k to 10k bees...If you want your honey soonest then you have to start with a fairly big colony (to me anywhere between 2k to 5k bees). If you start off with a colony of 100 bees then it might take you an year before you harvest a commercially viable amount of honey as the bees will have to reproduce first in order to build a sizeable colony..
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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Kaigangio
#23 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:14:24 AM
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Thanks @ wairegi

some grey areas...


1. There are no particular configuration on the size of the hive as the colonies sizes also differ in size.

Don't you think it would be a bad practice not know the approximate size of the bee colony and hence the size of the beehive that you the bee keeper wants optimised honey production?

Not forgetting the fact that the overall volume of the top bar bee hive is fixed and if the bee population increases to the extent that there is overcrowding in the hive, swarming will take place if you don't split the colony. You would not want to lose more than half of the colony to swarm!!

2. ..The good side of it that you swam size will always seek a new home when they are too big for the hive

Do you let the swarm just go look for a home elsewhere instead of giving them one?

3. We did the wooden frame to hold the combs and were not very effective. The bees will most the time build across the frames defeating the whole purpose of halving the frame.

If this is the case, i figure that when the comb has been build the space left is very small and consequently the bee space available is almost non existent...results? fast overcrowding (a perfect condition for swarming)..

The question is don't you lose a lot of bees before your first harvest? If so, how do you deal with this scenario?

...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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Kaka M
#24 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:03:01 PM
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Traditional bee keepers have certain sweet smelling leaves and flowers which are mashed and applied to the hives to attract bees.
I think bees are also attracted to honey and maybe for a start you may apply kidogo to the hives.
To ensure that bees make permanent homes in your hives then you will need to place them away from Noise, disturbance, near a water source and where there is enough vegetation for them to get nectar.
I think the above has still been mentioned in this thread before they r just the little I remember from Agriculture classes.
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wairegi
#25 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:07:52 PM
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Joined: 6/4/2007
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Kagangio

On the points raised;
1. As earlier stated you will find old clay pot as placed as hive, disused Mitungis, log and topbar. The colonies also vary in size and for very small swam you chase them away and wait for a bigger colony. ( observe the entry and exiting frequency).

From experience the earthen pots are easily colonized and you also need to treat the hive with some leaves to attract the bees.

2. When the bees have multiplied and the space is too small for them; not all of the swam but part of a smaller colony composed of a queen and some drones. Unless, the bees uncomfortable or attacked by ants or harvesting everything they will not swam

3. A good point; Regular inspection helps and with regular harvesting, the bees will be always be rebuilding the combs. Besides they will space the appropriately but not in the direction of the small bars placed for them.

The modern hives are priced very high (4500) and a mixture of the traditional hives (improved)is a good start as it is a cheap entry point.

You don't loose any bees before harvesting as they have to build combs on both chambers. Regular inspection is key. Bees will do at any place and the Africa bee will travel kilometers to look for water. Foliage is very important and during the dry period they will only be less active and depend on what is already stored.
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wairegi
#26 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2012 10:38:02 AM
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Posts: 215
Kaigangio,

How far did you go with this, you have been off the net for sometime..Have started what i say will be commercial beefarming in a years time. Building the hive inventory mos mos and how to do urban bee keeping in future.
Would be happy to join hand with like minded kenyan on this.

Kaigangio wrote:
Thanks @ wairegi

some grey areas...


1. There are no particular configuration on the size of the hive as the colonies sizes also differ in size.

Don't you think it would be a bad practice not know the approximate size of the bee colony and hence the size of the beehive that you the bee keeper wants optimised honey production?

Not forgetting the fact that the overall volume of the top bar bee hive is fixed and if the bee population increases to the extent that there is overcrowding in the hive, swarming will take place if you don't split the colony. You would not want to lose more than half of the colony to swarm!!

2. ..The good side of it that you swam size will always seek a new home when they are too big for the hive

Do you let the swarm just go look for a home elsewhere instead of giving them one?

3. We did the wooden frame to hold the combs and were not very effective. The bees will most the time build across the frames defeating the whole purpose of halving the frame.

If this is the case, i figure that when the comb has been build the space left is very small and consequently the bee space available is almost non existent...results? fast overcrowding (a perfect condition for swarming)..

The question is don't you lose a lot of bees before your first harvest? If so, how do you deal with this scenario?


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Njung'e
#27 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 2:17:59 PM
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Joined: 2/7/2007
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@Wairegi,

How is it going?
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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wairegi
#28 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 5:28:28 PM
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@Njung'e

Started off of with Langstroth hives and out of 20 hives less than ten are colonised. A very bad start.

Some learning; This are not the best hive for the dry parts of Kenya(Ithanga). Logs hives and clay and KTBH are doing much better.

Apparently it becomes abit too hot inside the hive for the bees. and hence their distaste for this type of hive.
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Njung'e
#29 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 10:54:51 PM
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Thanks! I have 24 acre piece NW of Nyahururu and it borders Laikipia reserve forests (Uaso Nyiro).The piece has good natural savannah bush,brush and tree cover and i have been thinking of turning it into one big apiary.Do you think the much colder climate will favour Langstroth? Will appreciate your input.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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wairegi
#30 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2014 4:54:33 PM
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Njung'e wrote:
Thanks! I have 24 acre piece NW of Nyahururu and it borders Laikipia reserve forests (Uaso Nyiro).The piece has good natural savannah bush,brush and tree cover and i have been thinking of turning it into one big apiary.Do you think the much colder climate will favour Langstroth? Will appreciate your input.


Njung'e

Sure this areas are ideal for beeking and lanstrong will do very well. I did visit the baraka collenge farm in molo. They have plenty of hives and they do langstronth.

And the foliage will definitely increase you yields and hence possible to have two harvest in an year. KARI Marigat or Baringo will give you alot of support and valuable input. A gentleman called Josephat Mulindo Chengole will be will to help
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Njung'e
#31 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:48:47 AM
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@Wairegi,
Much appreciated.I can access Baraka easily and i have embarked on research and as i was doing rounds,i came across this and i am on it.If you haven't read it yet,it might contain information you may find useful.

http://www.apiconsult.co...ers_beekeeping_guide.pdf
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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wairegi
#32 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 8:48:04 AM
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Njung'e This is a great venture and you are talking of near zero costs of production and so very high margins.

Demand for good honey is unmet. And 95% of what is the shelves not good honey.

Please don't feed the bees.
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Lolest!
#33 Posted : Friday, March 14, 2014 4:58:20 PM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
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Location: Kianjokoma
Kilimo biashara had this episode sometime back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA7arGBKTOc
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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Lolest!
#34 Posted : Thursday, February 05, 2015 7:42:11 PM
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Njung'e wrote:
Thanks! I have 24 acre piece NW of Nyahururu and it borders Laikipia reserve forests (Uaso Nyiro).The piece has good natural savannah bush,brush and tree cover and i have been thinking of turning it into one big apiary.Do you think the much colder climate will favour Langstroth? Will appreciate your input.

Just finished re-reading a Seeds of Gold article from November 2014

You should have max 25 hives in an apiary. The nearest apiary from that big apiary should be 3kms away
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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Lolest!
#35 Posted : Thursday, February 05, 2015 8:43:54 PM
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Lolest!
#36 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2015 6:13:13 PM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
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wairegi wrote:
Njung'e This is a great venture and you are talking of near zero costs of production and so very high margins.

Demand for good honey is unmet. And 95% of what is the shelves not good honey.

Please don't feed the bees.

Hi Wairegi. Have you started selling? How much per kg? Want to start this in 2016 with around 20 hives
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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murchr
#37 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2015 6:58:48 PM
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Joined: 2/26/2012
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Interested too. Is there a ready market?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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Lolest!
#38 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2015 1:00:16 PM
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murchr wrote:
Interested too. Is there a ready market?

watch this
https://www.youtube.com/...dXxjHHgr_IXiF9hdJrFY7X3S
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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butterflyke
#39 Posted : Monday, December 21, 2015 3:05:55 PM
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Following...
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
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Daystar*
#40 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 9:02:45 PM
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