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Co-operative Bank Kenya 2.6bn insider trading scandal
tomtom
#41 Posted : Monday, December 09, 2013 2:16:46 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/19/2013
Posts: 33
This sniffs of insider trading, unless they made widely available the same information as the directors had
i.e.
-valuation
-impending share splits
-availability of funding from same institution(cbk rules)
it seems they pulled a fast one. The regulating authority should at the very least explain if everything was above board or if they are also clueless they should investigate.
p.s. if this was legit someone should offer courses, it is education worth having.Sickquot;
muganda
#42 Posted : Monday, December 09, 2013 2:35:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905

There's an adage that there's nothing like bad press.
Temporary effect of old scandal is increasing short-term demand for share at 18.10
murchr
#43 Posted : Monday, December 09, 2013 3:13:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
FRM2011 wrote:
Let me first declare my interest in this matter. I made a tidy sum from the listing of coop shares. I also made a tidy sum with equity listing in 2006, ditto CIC in 2010.

It works in a very straightforward manner. A private company's AGM authorises the mgt to pursue listing at the nse. For both equity and coop we went to the villages and offered a premium from the existing individual shareholders. For coop we were offering between 300 to 500 Bob per share. Majority of the shareholders were holding 50 shares of class B shares only. For equity, I have a friend whose life was transformed instantly.

For CIC, the public was invited to participate in the private placement. Many bought because it had been stated clearly that the company would be listed at a future date.

Now @siringi and others are using very strong words to refer to people who made their money during the coop IPO.

The public knew the bank would be listed. The bank's shareholders authorised the creation of additional shares to be allotted to the top mgt as an ESOP. ALL THIS INFO WAS IN THE IM. Nobody is even mentioning that the IM had clearly indicated that these shares would be locked for at least two years after the IPO.

@siringi et.all, I don't think its right to hide under the web to besmirch people's characters.




Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause People fail to take up serendipitous opportunities then they claim people have stolen. I think this @Siringi person hasnt traded in the OTC, he doesnt even seem to understand that there are Class A and Class B shares....his long literature claims reek ignorance. There's nothing wrong with an employee buying stock of a company he works in not unless its listed at the NSE thats when they have to abide by the CMA regulations.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mkonomtupu
#44 Posted : Monday, December 09, 2013 3:30:04 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
murchr wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
Let me first declare my interest in this matter. I made a tidy sum from the listing of coop shares. I also made a tidy sum with equity listing in 2006, ditto CIC in 2010.

It works in a very straightforward manner. A private company's AGM authorises the mgt to pursue listing at the nse. For both equity and coop we went to the villages and offered a premium from the existing individual shareholders. For coop we were offering between 300 to 500 Bob per share. Majority of the shareholders were holding 50 shares of class B shares only. For equity, I have a friend whose life was transformed instantly.

For CIC, the public was invited to participate in the private placement. Many bought because it had been stated clearly that the company would be listed at a future date.

Now @siringi and others are using very strong words to refer to people who made their money during the coop IPO.

The public knew the bank would be listed. The bank's shareholders authorised the creation of additional shares to be allotted to the top mgt as an ESOP. ALL THIS INFO WAS IN THE IM. Nobody is even mentioning that the IM had clearly indicated that these shares would be locked for at least two years after the IPO.

@siringi et.all, I don't think its right to hide under the web to besmirch people's characters.




Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause People fail to take up serendipitous opportunities then they claim people have stolen. I think this @Siringi person hasnt traded in the OTC, he doesnt even seem to understand that there are Class A and Class B shares....his long literature claims reek ignorance. There's nothing wrong with an employee buying stock of a company he works in not unless its listed at the NSE thats when they have to abide by the CMA regulations.



Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause There are three types of people in the world: Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who ask: What happened?
Realtreaty
#45 Posted : Monday, December 09, 2013 3:58:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
In 2005-7 Mars group and a one presidential candidate had brought the issue of piracy nd drug money being used to propel the good tiding s by then of the NSE. This came to pass after elections as it was a political propaganda supported by West who thought Kenya was developing and doing well faster. The bourse dropped after PEV, and depressed world economy. Now again the bourse has touched the 5000 mark and Mars bones have reached atop again. This is mere gossip as it is never gifted the opportunity like Kestre to be the lead in financial advisory services. So it plays the vice.
Quote:
"THIS MAN IS A MAD MAN, HE WNT TO PLUNGE THE WHOLE WORLD IN WAR"....Mandela to George W Bush invading Iraq!
Realtreaty
#46 Posted : Monday, December 09, 2013 4:04:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
In 2005-7 Mars group and a one presidential candidate had brought the issue of piracy nd drug money being used to propel the good tiding s by then of the NSE. This came to pass after elections as it was a political propaganda supported by West who thought Kenya was developing and doing well faster. The bourse dropped after PEV, and depressed world economy. Now again the bourse has touched the 5000 mark and Mars bones have reached atop again. This is mere gossip as it is never gifted the opportunity like Kestre to be the lead in financial advisory services. So it plays the vice.
Quote:
"THIS MAN IS A MAD MAN, HE WNT TO PLUNGE THE WHOLE WORLD IN WAR"....Mandela to George W Bush invading Iraq!
Kausha
#47 Posted : Monday, December 09, 2013 4:35:08 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
Bachuma Gate wrote:
The truth of the matter is that the MD, Directors and senior staff borrowed from the bank and bought shares BEFORE the IPO. It is a against the law to lend money for purchase of your own shares.

1.The fact is they bought shares before the IPO, before the share split and at different price than the IPO price. The fact that they did this knowing that the bank would be doing an IPO is what is called insider trading.

2. The rest of the staff bought during the IPO. This what you would call ESOP.

If you are a member of a co-op that is a shareholder of the bank, just know that you are the one who was played games otherwise who owns coops? It is you and me.

Ask yourself how came the rest of the staff did not make hundreds of millions yet they were also made to borrow and buy the shares.
The trick was with the share split. Anyone who had one share, was given 100.

This is how it was done

1. Before the IPO allocate each of yourself lots of shares. MD gets say 680,000 shares. OTC price was between shs60 and 80. So he borrows says 50m from the bank and buys the shares. Pls note that the share were acquired before the IPO. They never bought them during the IPO.

2. Carry a share split of 1:100. So he ends up with 68,000,000 shares.

3. AT the IPO with a price of 9.50. The man is already worth 646,000,000.00. At the current price of 18 the man is worth 1.2b.

4. The rest of the staff are made to buy the shares at IPO. So say a staff buys same number of shares as the MD. 680,000 shares. IPO price 9.50. Therefore 680,000*9.50=6.4m. At the current price, the follow is worth 680,000*18=12.2m. I hope the clever guys here can see the connection between the 12.2m and the 1.2b. IT IS THE SHARE SPLIT BEFORE THE IPO.


The same game was played at CIC. Just check their financials and see how many shares the Co-op MD and CIC MD. That is why Co-op Bank has heavily invested in CIC more than other co-ops because of this monkey business.

As for the coffee written-off thing, the evidence is there. IT will come out one day.

The thing about the media not covering the story out of compromise; The former MDs PA knows how he was able to achieve this all along.

And in a clearly choreographed move; Ruto's wife is give 5 million by the bank the other day for her foundation. Basically continue buying protection. And nothing will happen to you. Let people make noise.


@Bachuma, wewe ndugu ueona mbele ghama probessa!. Essentially this is insider trading. To add onto that no other shareholder was allowed to buy shares in 2007-2008 in the run to the IPO but if you wanted to sell you were welcome. Essentially the shares in the OTC which is run by C0-OP Custody - (whose business head reports to the Co-op hierachy)was under instructions not to allow selling of shares to outsiders. It had to be some accounts or so we were told but we were encouraged to sell. And oh, the price was a static 70 bob.

Much latter we came to realize that it's some senior staffers and directors who were filling their tanks. My only quagmire is, if the directors and management are trading their own shares in one of their units and giving instructions on who can buy and sell and at what price and then goes on to decide the listing plans and the share splits (which must have been discussed before the buying lock up in the OTC happened) how is this not the worst form of insider trading?

I have always wondered as to the probability of the provisions for doubtful debts from Q1 to Q3 over the past few years always being rounded figures. Co-op and Equity are Proffesor Ndungu's banking miracles, only he would have allowed what we see in those institutions.
Siringi
#48 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:00:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/8/2013
Posts: 2,517
@muchr @frm2011 and @realtreaty do you guy read your own posts? and do you believe them yourselves? because they are to say the least laughable

now for the record : I played no part in compiling the reports, As a Wazuan I read them and merely provided links to published reports and commentaties on breach of trust and theft by servant. All you need to do is provide links to believable counterarguements.

There is also published literature by a Don at The University... as I said earlier therein lies an opportunity for a PhD thesis in unravelling the mystery of the before and after Bomb last shareholding structure of Coop and how some guys became overnight millionaires. Kenyan scholarship shall be the richer. Heck we could go for the thieves:) and share the loot like some Mpigs did.

Unlike you guys who want to play ostrich I am convinced the issues raised cannot be wished away. There is no difference between this scam and what some guys hatched at KCC to rip off farmers and cooperators or Kenya Seed. There is no difference with the Kamlesh Pattnis schemes

There is a lot of rot and thieving at NSE and indeed serious governance issues in most quoted companies that goes unreported. The Bonds scam is just a tip of the ice bergs, read the CMC woes,etc., staff at brokerage firms steal humongous investments and routinely abusethe system. Before most systems became electronic guys used to buy and sell shares 'on credit' even in the largest brokerage firm and become overnight millionaires

We have a choice to read and interrogate the reports, learn debate and get wiser, stop catching feelings we are not coming for youSad smile
"😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
Fomoney
#49 Posted : Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:40:58 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/9/2006
Posts: 79
@Siringi, some of the responses above explain why Kenya has become a nation of thieves.If you can manipulate things to swindle the masses, you're smart and deserve it, if you point it out, you're ignorant and bitter. This explains why our MPs behave the way they do, first order of business? raise salaries. We deserve what we get. Raising questions about financial propriety is frowned upon because the majority would do the same given a chance. No one should be verified for pointing out obvious irregularities. Keep the spirit!
kinky demand
#50 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 9:07:01 AM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 12/11/2013
Posts: 1
kibe1 wrote:
Reading thr the 13 page report on marsgroup some1 reads alot of malice! three questions; (1)Do IPOs all over the world provide opportunities for public and employees to make money? YES. (2)Does an IPO carry signficant expenses by the issuer? YES, is there a recommended expense/value ratio? NONE (3)Other than Coop directors and employees, why does the report not carry out an analysis of thousands other kenyans who have made signifcant gains on this share..from kes9.50 to current kes17.50? MALICE
I think we need to stop hating and provide factual info on listed companies. Btw i am accumulating coop bank shares in the last 2 years and i can tell you i will be top 10 category in the next 5 years! join me and we can also become millionaires!

@Kibe1. SPOT ON! this is marsgroup at it again! Big numbers, create big story, get facts later! At least i am informed that no staff was compelled to take a loan and buy shares. A SACCO sees an opportunity to offer a new loan product to its members and does this within existing sacco loan policy, and this is called fraud? With over 3000 coop bank staff out there, marsgroup should have done a better job to establish whther the issue of junior staff being forced into the IPO was factual.
On another note, is wrong for senior management to take up loans to participate in an IPO? have disclosures been made as required? what is the motive of this old public knowledge info being repeated all thro/?
Adnan
#51 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:06:04 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/20/2013
Posts: 155
A good thread being derailed by trolls.
MY NAME IS ADNAN JANUZAJ
King G
#52 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:12:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,855
Location: Othumo
Adnan wrote:
A good thread being derailed by trolls.


Mboys have been sent ..... to defend us. Ok
Thieves
amigo 321
#53 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:00:38 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 12/11/2013
Posts: 3
Topic too familiar the issue was raised by a former MP and the Okemo committee of parliament and was cleared. Well done coop keep up !
waza
#54 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:12:18 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/18/2011
Posts: 75

You missed it. Well covered by business daily; headline story on 25th November 2009.
Every day I get up and look through the Forbes list of the richest people in the World. If I'm not there, I go to work.
hnjugz
#55 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:32:37 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 12/11/2013
Posts: 1
Then every ESOP is insider trading. The IPO was approved by CMA with a detailed Information Memorandum
guru267
#56 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 1:58:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
hnjugz wrote:
Then every ESOP is insider trading. The IPO was approved by CMA with a detailed Information Memorandum


How many ESOP programmes do you know that stink this much??

The directors knew they would set the IPO price at 9.50, then they decided to create shares and buy them at 1 bob just a year earlier...
If that is not insider trading then tell me what is??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
dunkang
#57 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 2:09:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
guru267 wrote:
hnjugz wrote:
Then every ESOP is insider trading. The IPO was approved by CMA with a detailed Information Memorandum


How many ESOP programmes do you know that stink this much??

The directors knew they would set the IPO price at 9.50, then they decided to create shares and buy them at 1 bob just a year earlier...
If that is not insider trading then tell me what is??

If you can prove that, then there will be a case, otherwise, kelele tuuuuuuuuuu!

And how comes there are so many HELLOs in this thread?
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

maka
#58 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 2:36:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
hnjugz wrote:
Then every ESOP is insider trading. The IPO was approved by CMA with a detailed Information Memorandum


CMA...surely.
possunt quia posse videntur
amigo 321
#59 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 2:57:27 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 12/11/2013
Posts: 3
Mate familiarise yourself with the Co-op Bank turn around story - this tastes of court battles between the former MD who is also a former MP....
Kausha
#60 Posted : Wednesday, December 11, 2013 3:16:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
Listed company ESOPS are registered with CMA, can't see this one.
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